Analysis Kicking for goal.

DognBones

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#26
They don't kick directly at the centre of the goals. As soon as they veer right or left in the run-up you can be quite sure they'll miss. What happened to the old technique of picking out a person sitting behind the goals and aiming the ball at him/her, or a banner? They have no difficulty finding a target during play (this week :$ ). Dickson's technique is to just boot it straight, with a decent follow-through. Many of our blokes try to steer it by hooking or curving - only Buddy can get away with that. Stop thinking about the mechanics of the kick and look at what you're aiming at.
The perfect example of 'straight - aiming' technique is that of Ben Brown. It's as robotic and irritating as hell but it's also most effective, hardly ever misses. Simon Beasley was another excellent example.
 

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Tommycash

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#27
I can't for the life of me understand how jong can't make the distance from 40m. For a full time footballer probably on $200k plus it blows me away. Now in his sixth season. Not the only poor kick atm but he in particular astounds me.
In Jong's case I think it can fairly be put down to a lack of strength due to his knee reco. Probably hasn't built all his leg strength and power back.
 
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#28
They don't kick directly at the centre of the goals. As soon as they veer right or left in the run-up you can be quite sure they'll miss. What happened to the old technique of picking out a person sitting behind the goals and aiming the ball at him/her, or a banner? They have no difficulty finding a target during play (this week :$ ). Dickson's technique is to just boot it straight, with a decent follow-through. Many of our blokes try to steer it by hooking or curving - only Buddy can get away with that. Stop thinking about the mechanics of the kick and look at what you're aiming at.
I remember Akermanis talking about the skill of goal kicking and he said that he found that kicking the ball up/high made his kicks go straighter rather than stabbing at it and keeping the kick low.
Brereton made the best call I've ever heard about kicking for goal because I tried it when i was playing and it worked.
He said that if you are on an angle and you want the ball to fade left of right you need to kick the ball straight but slightly rotate your boot at contact. When I say rotate your boot I don't mean stick you toe out to the right or left... I mean rotate your boot when it is pointed so the boot laces might face slightly out to the right to make it fade right or to the left to make it fade left. It seems to make the ball spin along it's long axis and it makes the ball fade left or right.

Mark+Knight+24.jpg
 

Tommycash

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#31
What about when he was reliably doing it pre-acl?
Anticipation leg weakness?
I don't remember his kicking woes from the past, but you're probably right.

He's still, sort of, a young player. That might effect his kicking length. The other possibility is his confidence is just shot so he doesn't shoot when he is far out, or he does weird kicks because he doesn't believe in himself.

Or perhaps he just has weak legs.
 

immortalmike

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#32
I don't remember his kicking woes from the past, but you're probably right.

He's still, sort of, a young player. That might effect his kicking length. The other possibility is his confidence is just shot so he doesn't shoot when he is far out, or he does weird kicks because he doesn't believe in himself.

Or perhaps he just has weak legs.
Or he's not a great kick despite having a year or two of decent goal kicking previously.
 

DognBones

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#35
You can find a stat on Goal accuracy which seems to include misses. On that, we are the worst:

View attachment 491647
The most surprising stat in the table for me was 'Marks'. We are easily winning Most Marks and have the highest Average Marks. Amazing!
 

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AJARWA

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#37
In Jong's case I think it can fairly be put down to a lack of strength due to his knee reco. Probably hasn't built all his leg strength and power back.
Recall him struggling over that distance his whole career to date. So not sure if serious Tommycash. He can run 15k. Would have to watch him pre reco I guess. Somehow he's a much better shot on the run.
 

Tommycash

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#38
Recall him struggling over that distance his whole career to date. So not sure if serious Tommycash. He can run 15k. Would have to watch him pre reco I guess. Somehow he's a much better shot on the run.
Am serious, but obviously wearing a pair of these:
 

BRWB

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#39
Honeychurch is one of our worst, as is Jong. Both look mentally shot in front of goal. As does Dunkley.

Bont needs to lift as well.

Disappointingly for a talented little guy, on the snap you can almost lock Hunter in to miss.

Still can't believe the club has not copied Hawthorn's elite kicking program. It works.
 

ringa5

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#40
Honeychurch is one of our worst, as is Jong. Both look mentally shot in front of goal. As does Dunkley.

Bont needs to lift as well.

Disappointingly for a talented little guy, on the snap you can almost lock Hunter in to miss.

Still can't believe the club has not copied Hawthorn's elite kicking program. It works.
If they are going to recruit players with kicking deficiencies.Then surely due diligence dictates, they employ time and expertise for this fundamental skill.
 

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#41

_M_16_

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#42
I know people keep talking about our kicking skills, but its becoming more widely agreed that its a league wide issue now, and not just us. Kicking standards across the board have seemed to have dropped these days

A few here are saying we should get a specialist kicking coach, and "Hawks had one"

1. Did they actually have a specialist kicking coach, or did they just focus on drafting good kickers and good footballers in general?
2. And does anyone honestly think a kicking coach will make much of a significant difference at this level? An AFL players skill set is almost set in stone by the time they make the big grade. Question is, will a "specialist" really improve a player in say their early twenties, that much? When they have been using the same techniques etc. for over a decade? Is it really something that can be fixed at AFL level? Or is the real issue on kicking coming from youth football and the TAC Cup, and that we need to focus there instead?
 

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#43
I think it comes down to individual players taking responsibility for working to change or perfect their own technique and finding what works best for themselves. We've all seen or heard of players who've changed something - ball drop, run up or whatever - and managed to improve.
 

Next Waiting

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#44
Interesting opinion from Dew:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-02/dews-solution-less-playstation-more-kicking

Basically just says if kids can't kick when they get to the club, the intensity of the modern game means they probably won't have much time to do ball skills during the week as they will be too sore and therefore you are pretty unlikely to be able to do much about it.
Dew's got a point I think. In my teenage years I'd spend hours, hours i tells ya, kicking a ball around after school most days and in all weathers. And at break and lunch times at school the same. But internet did't exist and mobile phones hadn't been invented (let alone smart phones), only NASA had computers and twitter was something birds did. It's a different world and the repetitive practice it takes to get good at something seems a bridge too far when the alternative is the exciting world of other peoples lives and events in real time. Perhaps a league wide 50% GA or worse is the future...
 

BRWB

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#45
I know people keep talking about our kicking skills, but its becoming more widely agreed that its a league wide issue now, and not just us. Kicking standards across the board have seemed to have dropped these days

A few here are saying we should get a specialist kicking coach, and "Hawks had one"

1. Did they actually have a specialist kicking coach, or did they just focus on drafting good kickers and good footballers in general?
2. And does anyone honestly think a kicking coach will make much of a significant difference at this level? An AFL players skill set is almost set in stone by the time they make the big grade. Question is, will a "specialist" really improve a player in say their early twenties, that much? When they have been using the same techniques etc. for over a decade? Is it really something that can be fixed at AFL level? Or is the real issue on kicking coming from youth football and the TAC Cup, and that we need to focus there instead?
Mate if you are interested in learning about it google David Rath and hawthorn kicking.

Synopsis is that Rath was Clarko's first hire at Hawthorn. Both had just read Moneyball and reckoned kicking was the way to get an edge like in Moneyball.

Rath is a biomechanist who is credited with lifting Hawthorn from the worst kicking team to the best. Rath also developed a computer program that biomechanically maps kicking techniques and improves them

Other than Clarko, IMO Rath and his kicking programme is one of the key reasons why Hawthorn have been able to be so successful without special assistance (Syd and Lions had extra cap, while Cats got lucky with father sons).

It bemuses me that Bev has clearly chosen to ignore Rath's work (or cunningly conceal his interest by having such a **** kicking team and no stated plan to address it)

Just one article speaks of Luke Bruest and the worrries over his set shot work in 2013 as he was bottom three for set shot accuracy in the top fifty set shot goal kickers....five years on and I saw a segment where Breust was rated in the top five players for people who you'd want to kick a set shot for your life.

http://m.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-09-12/breust-works-on-kicking
 
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DognBones

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#46
Dew's got a point I think. In my teenage years I'd spend hours, hours i tells ya, kicking a ball around after school most days and in all weathers. And at break and lunch times at school the same. But internet did't exist and mobile phones hadn't been invented (let alone smart phones), only NASA had computers and twitter was something birds did. It's a different world and the repetitive practice it takes to get good at something seems a bridge too far when the alternative is the exciting world of other peoples lives and events in real time. Perhaps a league wide 50% GA or worse is the future...
Perhaps players these days spend more time practising the flashier types of kicks than the more direct set shots. Seems like they are better at: dribble kicks (for goal and along boundaries), banana kicks, off break, leg break etc. Maybe we just need more who can master 'line and length'.
 

BRWB

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#48
Been poached by Hocking and the AFL.

I honestly cant understand why Bev hasn't recruited rath or one of his brethren.

There are so many stories of gun Hawks players like Rioli and Breust crediting massive improvement in their kicking to Rath.

As an aside how awesome is Clarko?

Many astute judges credit congestion causing bad kicking. Congestion occurred on the back of Clarko's cluster and revolutionary rolling zone. At the same time, Clarko knowing his zone will be copied, is working on the plan to the beat the zone with precision kicking.

We now see rotations being limited and player fatigue increasing...and what was Rath's recent pre season brief? Analysis and improvement of player kicking under fatigue.

Clarko is a genius.
 
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Next Waiting

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#49
Been poached by Hocking and the AFL.

I honestly cant understand why Bev hasn't recruited rath or one of his brethren.

There are so many stories of gun Hawks players like Rioli and Breust crediting massive improvement in their kicking to Rath.
Sounded like a cluey sort of bloke his biomechanic background aside. A good one to have inside the tent. Where can we buy one one of those? What about the Vic Uni crew. Anyone with that sort of knowledge amongst them? Do they do that sort of stuff there?
 

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#50
As an aside how awesome is Clarko?

Many astute judges credit congestion causing bad kicking. Congestion occurred on the back of Clarko's cluster and revolutionary rolling zone. At the same time, Clarko knowing his zone will be copied, is working on the plan to the beat the zone with precision kicking.

We now see rotations being limited and player fatigue increasing...and what was Rath's recent pre season brief? Analysis and improvement of player kicking under fatigue.

Clarko is a genius.
It's kind of amusing. Develops a system that is likely to be copied while also looking for/even sowing the seeds of its destruction at the same time. He's writing a program and creating a virus to destroy it:p. I wonder if he sits in a big office chair stroking a cat and laughing maniacally from time to time.
 
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