Analysis Kinnear Beatson vs the average recruiter

Cheer Red Blood

DESTINY IS ALL
Sep 27, 2003
3,409
405
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
The fact of the matter remains that Beatson build a premiership list in 2012.
6 out of 22 players is hardly building the 2012 team.

Pyke was international rookie who contacted us, bit of a stretch to contribute that to Beatson.

...
from OP

2007 (Sydney)

Pick 11 - Patrick Veszpremi (23 games)
Pick 26 - Brett Meredith (16 games)

Rookie 10 - Matthew O'Dwyer (7 games)
Rookie 26 - Brendan Murphy (0 games)
Rookie 41 - Jake Orreal (0 games)
Rookie 53 - Matthew Beckmans (0 games)
Rookie 58 - Aaron Bruce (0 games)
Rookie 61 - Dean Terlich (24 games - 0 for Sydney)

2008 (Sydney)

Pick 12 - Lewis Johnston (10 games - 2 for Sydney)
Pick 30 - Daniel Hannebery (105 games)
Pick 61 - Campbell Heath (14 games - 2 for Sydney)

Rookie 12 - Kristin Thornton (8 games)
Rookie 28 - Taylor Gilchrist (0 games)
Rookie 43 - Kyle Coney (0 games)
Rookie 57 - Mike Pyke (75 games)

2009 (Sydney)

Pick 6 - Gary Rohan (31 games)
Pick 14 - Lewis Jetta (82 games)
Pick 38 - Sam Reid (58 games)
Pick 54 - Byron Sumner (1 game)
Pick 55 - Trent Dennis-Lane (28 games - 19 for Sydney)

Rookie 10 - Henry Playfair (5 games, previously played 11 at Sydney after being traded from Geelong. Those 11 games excluded due to being the product of a trade)
Rookie 63 - Chris McKaigue (0 games)
Rookie 71 - Nathan Gordon (5 games - 2 for Sydney)
Rookie 75 - Dylan McNeil (0 games)

2010 (Sydney)

Pick 21 - Jed Lamb (13 games - 12 for Sydney)
Pick 40 - Luke Parker (61 games)
Pick 57 - Alex Johnson (45 games)
Pick 73 - Matthew Spangher (12 games - 6 for Sydney)

Rookie 21 - Max Otten (0 games)
Rookie 38 - Ben Haren (0 games)
Rookie 88 - Eugene Krueger (0 games)

2011 (Sydney)

Pick 43 - Jordan Lockyer (0 games)
Pick 61 - Alex Brown (0 games)

Rookie 13 - Shane Biggs (3 games)
Rookie 31 - Campbell Heath (0 further games for Sydney)
Rookie 93 - Harry Cunningham (10 games)
Rookie 95 - Jack Lynch (0 games)

2012 (Sydney)

Pick 22 - Dean Towers (0 games)
Pick 44 - Harrison Marsh (0 games)
Pick 46 - Tim Membrey (0 games)
Pick 64 - Matthew Dick (0 games)


Rookie 16 - Jake Lloyd (0 games)
Rookie 29 - Xavier Richards (1 game)
Rookie 37 - Dane Rampe (27 games)
Rookie 50 - Daniel Robinson (0 games)
Rookie 57 - Brandon Jack (9 games)
Rookie 58 - Sam Naismith (0 games)

so Beatson has recruited 43 players, of which only 16 remain..
 
Last edited:

brad cooper

Club Legend
Jul 5, 2014
2,502
3,931
AFL Club
Sydney
6 out of 22 players is hardly building the 2012 team.

Pyke was international rookie who contacted us, bit of a stretch to contribute that to Beatson.

...
from OP

2007 (Sydney)

Pick 11 - Patrick Veszpremi (23 games)
Pick 26 - Brett Meredith (16 games)

Rookie 10 - Matthew O'Dwyer (7 games)
Rookie 26 - Brendan Murphy (0 games)
Rookie 41 - Jake Orreal (0 games)
Rookie 53 - Matthew Beckmans (0 games)
Rookie 58 - Aaron Bruce (0 games)
Rookie 61 - Dean Terlich (24 games - 0 for Sydney)

2008 (Sydney)

Pick 12 - Lewis Johnston (10 games - 2 for Sydney)
Pick 30 - Daniel Hannebery (105 games)
Pick 61 - Campbell Heath (14 games - 2 for Sydney)

Rookie 12 - Kristin Thornton (8 games)
Rookie 28 - Taylor Gilchrist (0 games)
Rookie 43 - Kyle Coney (0 games)
Rookie 57 - Mike Pyke (75 games)

2009 (Sydney)

Pick 6 - Gary Rohan (31 games)
Pick 14 - Lewis Jetta (82 games)
Pick 38 - Sam Reid (58 games)
Pick 54 - Byron Sumner (1 game)
Pick 55 - Trent Dennis-Lane (28 games - 19 for Sydney)

Rookie 10 - Henry Playfair (5 games, previously played 11 at Sydney after being traded from Geelong. Those 11 games excluded due to being the product of a trade)
Rookie 63 - Chris McKaigue (0 games)
Rookie 71 - Nathan Gordon (5 games - 2 for Sydney)
Rookie 75 - Dylan McNeil (0 games)

2010 (Sydney)

Pick 21 - Jed Lamb (13 games - 12 for Sydney)
Pick 40 - Luke Parker (61 games)
Pick 57 - Alex Johnson (45 games)
Pick 73 - Matthew Spangher (12 games - 6 for Sydney)

Rookie 21 - Max Otten (0 games)
Rookie 38 - Ben Haren (0 games)
Rookie 88 - Eugene Krueger (0 games)

2011 (Sydney)

Pick 43 - Jordan Lockyer (0 games)
Pick 61 - Alex Brown (0 games)

Rookie 13 - Shane Biggs (3 games)
Rookie 31 - Campbell Heath (0 further games for Sydney)
Rookie 93 - Harry Cunningham (10 games)
Rookie 95 - Jack Lynch (0 games)

2012 (Sydney)

Pick 22 - Dean Towers (0 games)
Pick 44 - Harrison Marsh (0 games)
Pick 46 - Tim Membrey (0 games)
Pick 64 - Matthew Dick (0 games)


Rookie 16 - Jake Lloyd (0 games)
Rookie 29 - Xavier Richards (1 game)
Rookie 37 - Dane Rampe (27 games)
Rookie 50 - Daniel Robinson (0 games)
Rookie 57 - Brandon Jack (9 games)
Rookie 58 - Sam Naismith (0 games)

so Beatson has recruited 43 players, of which only 16 remain..
Premiership players drafted or traded for whilst Beatson head if recruitment.

Pyke
Mumford
Kennedy
Shaw
Hanners
Parker
Reid
Morton
Jetta
Mattner
Johnson

You can argue the pros and cons of Pyke if you like but the others all came to the club with Beatson in charge of recruitment/list management

Has he been perfect? No
Has he been the best in the business? No
Was he head of recruitment in the years leading up to a premiership? Yes
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Cheer Red Blood

DESTINY IS ALL
Sep 27, 2003
3,409
405
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
Yah, some had been traded in while Beatson has been there but how much influence does he have on trading?

I mean, isn't his main job the draft? If he has both responsibilities, maybe that explains why his drafting is poor.

Shaw and Mattner for instance, wern't they targeted by Roos?
 

Lakeside Swan

Premiership Player
Apr 1, 2015
3,589
2,353
AFL Club
Sydney
6 out of 22 players is hardly building the 2012 team.

Pyke was international rookie who contacted us, bit of a stretch to contribute that to Beatson.

...
from OP

2007 (Sydney)

Pick 11 - Patrick Veszpremi (23 games)
Pick 26 - Brett Meredith (16 games)

Rookie 10 - Matthew O'Dwyer (7 games)
Rookie 26 - Brendan Murphy (0 games)
Rookie 41 - Jake Orreal (0 games)
Rookie 53 - Matthew Beckmans (0 games)
Rookie 58 - Aaron Bruce (0 games)
Rookie 61 - Dean Terlich (24 games - 0 for Sydney)

2008 (Sydney)

Pick 12 - Lewis Johnston (10 games - 2 for Sydney)
Pick 30 - Daniel Hannebery (105 games)
Pick 61 - Campbell Heath (14 games - 2 for Sydney)

Rookie 12 - Kristin Thornton (8 games)
Rookie 28 - Taylor Gilchrist (0 games)
Rookie 43 - Kyle Coney (0 games)
Rookie 57 - Mike Pyke (75 games)

2009 (Sydney)

Pick 6 - Gary Rohan (31 games)
Pick 14 - Lewis Jetta (82 games)
Pick 38 - Sam Reid (58 games)
Pick 54 - Byron Sumner (1 game)
Pick 55 - Trent Dennis-Lane (28 games - 19 for Sydney)

Rookie 10 - Henry Playfair (5 games, previously played 11 at Sydney after being traded from Geelong. Those 11 games excluded due to being the product of a trade)
Rookie 63 - Chris McKaigue (0 games)
Rookie 71 - Nathan Gordon (5 games - 2 for Sydney)
Rookie 75 - Dylan McNeil (0 games)

2010 (Sydney)

Pick 21 - Jed Lamb (13 games - 12 for Sydney)
Pick 40 - Luke Parker (61 games)
Pick 57 - Alex Johnson (45 games)
Pick 73 - Matthew Spangher (12 games - 6 for Sydney)

Rookie 21 - Max Otten (0 games)
Rookie 38 - Ben Haren (0 games)
Rookie 88 - Eugene Krueger (0 games)

2011 (Sydney)

Pick 43 - Jordan Lockyer (0 games)
Pick 61 - Alex Brown (0 games)

Rookie 13 - Shane Biggs (3 games)
Rookie 31 - Campbell Heath (0 further games for Sydney)
Rookie 93 - Harry Cunningham (10 games)
Rookie 95 - Jack Lynch (0 games)

2012 (Sydney)

Pick 22 - Dean Towers (0 games)
Pick 44 - Harrison Marsh (0 games)
Pick 46 - Tim Membrey (0 games)
Pick 64 - Matthew Dick (0 games)


Rookie 16 - Jake Lloyd (0 games)
Rookie 29 - Xavier Richards (1 game)
Rookie 37 - Dane Rampe (27 games)
Rookie 50 - Daniel Robinson (0 games)
Rookie 57 - Brandon Jack (9 games)
Rookie 58 - Sam Naismith (0 games)

so Beatson has recruited 43 players, of which only 16 remain..
Damn. That's a lot of failure. I'd love to see how Graeme Wright would match up.
 

Cheer Red Blood

DESTINY IS ALL
Sep 27, 2003
3,409
405
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
Damn. That's a lot of failure. I'd love to see how Graeme Wright would match up.
I was really, really hoping Wright would join Carlton when they we're chasing him last year.

just additionally, out of the 16 players over 6 drafts that remain with us, 6 of them are from one single rookie draft.
 

Cheer Red Blood

DESTINY IS ALL
Sep 27, 2003
3,409
405
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
Making a huge stand alone list of all our fails is hardly proving a point unless you can also bring up similar lists of all 17 other clubs for the given period. In doing so, you may be right in that we may not be up there with the Hawks, though in saying that, they have an easier task of enticing draftees to their club without the worries we have of whether they will become homesick. So IMO, the talent pool they can pick from has a higher probability of staying at the club due to playing in their home state.
Each & every year, ALL teams have to delist players in order to bring in new ones. Is this not correct?

So as I mentioned in an earlier post, I judge recruiting on the ability to find a 'treasure' amongst those later picks, So picking up a player at pick 30 or so means thatother clubs have failed in their ability to spot the potential.
Again I refer to Parker. That Beatson picked him up so late meant that some other recruiters were negligent in their job based on how you & others are unfairly judging Beatson in this thread. Quite entitled to do so I might add.
But we are also quite entitled to highlight the reasons why we believe you are way wrong.

Again, last time I looked, even the Hawks have delisted 4 or 5 players every year, that the 'genius recruiter' Graeme Wright selected at some point.
Yeah! Beatson has got some wrong, but given the added pressure of the need to recruit a person suitable to our system, being an interstate club, I'm surprised he has struck some gems like Hanners & Parker & Kennedy & Mumford & some promising types like Rohan & Reid & Towers!:D
Blah. I really can't be bothered reading all this, knowing who has written it.

But ok fine,
first off all "Making a huge stand alone list of all our fails"
ahm.. it is a list of all the players we drafted. when talking about who we drafted, its fairly relevant..
hardly proving a point? the point is our drafting sucked as is shown. what the other clubs did isn't the discussion.

"Each & every year, ALL teams have to delist players in order to bring in new ones. Is this not correct?"

No, this is incorrect.

"Again I refer to Parker. That Beatson picked him up so late meant that some other recruiters were negligent in their job based on how you & others are unfairly judging Beatson in this thread."

Mmm. That would be great, as is picking Hanners at 30, except our first rounders those years we're a right off, so we may as well have picked the actual good players with our first picks anyway.

"given the added pressure of the need to recruit a person suitable to our system, being an interstate club"

What EXTRA pressure? Our club is the one deciding what the "suitability to the system" is. Working within that context is only what the club has decided, not some external force.
Freo and WC are "interstate" clubs who have made GFs recently, Freo has more non WA players on their list than home grown. Sure, sometimes players leave, as we saw with Membrey.. but according to you, we don't draft players in case they want to leave, so in his case it must be something different than homesickness.. Maybe if he'd been given more opportunities he would have stayed?

Maybe if we'd given the likes of Currie, Simpkin, Biggs etc more games, when their ressies form was good, instead of the static selection committee we've had for years (Paul Roos' "Premiership credits" for e.g) they would have stuck around, and we wouldn't have drafted players in the 60s, like Matty Dick, only to de-list them a couple of years later.

Currie stuck around for FIVE years playing against part timers in Canberra without getting a go.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 13, 2007
7,345
9,026
AFL Club
Sydney
Geez the way some people are talking in this thread you'd think we were bottom 4 for the last decade.

Drafting is a bloody inexact science. Boys growing up into men is an inexact science. When I went to my 25 year reunion last year, there was absolutely no correlation whatsoever between blokes who succeeded and blokes who you thought would succeed. In many respects, the most successful ones were those who hadn't had a clue what they wanted to do when they left school.

If that success rate is reflected across the competition, and I daresay it is, it is an even bigger argument for lifting the draft age to 21.
 

P Kelly Legend

All Australian
Dec 6, 2010
715
711
AFL Club
Sydney
Cheer Red Blood said:
Maybe if we'd given the likes of Currie, Simpkin, Biggs etc more games, when their ressies form was good, instead of the static selection committee we've had for years (Paul Roos' "Premiership credits" for e.g) they would have stuck around, and we wouldn't have drafted players in the 60s, like Matty Dick, only to de-list them a couple of years later.

Currie stuck around for FIVE years playing against part timers in Canberra without getting a go.
What's that got to do with beatson?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cheer Red Blood

DESTINY IS ALL
Sep 27, 2003
3,409
405
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
What's that got to do with beatson?
It was in response to the assertion that Sydney is limited in their draft choices due to geography.
My point was that a conservative selection policy might be a bigger factor than homesickness, especially for players like Biggs who had shown they have what it takes to play senior footy only to be passed over.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

RW

Premium Platinum
Jan 11, 2003
15,161
16,194
AFL Club
Sydney
What EXTRA pressure? Our club is the one deciding what the "suitability to the system" is. Working within that context is only what the club has decided, not some external force.
It's pretty simple. Paraphrasing a post I read on the Lions board recently during the Aish saga, any player is worth more in Vic/SA/WA than they are in Qld/NSW, which is why Aish left Brisbane and why many others left Sydney and Brisbane before him. Worth more off-field, worth more to be in the thick of footy culture, worth more in most cases because they're closer to home/friends/family, it's just the way it is. And for all of those reasons they're worth less here because they're a flight risk, not to mention the high cost of relocating to Sydney and finding appropriate housing (which is more than 9.8% more expensive than the other capital cities I can assure you). The comparison you made between us and the WA clubs is laughable really, yes they have the go home factor too but they have a far bigger talent pool to draw from to begin with. If they had zones, the cup would hardly ever leave WA.

My personal view is that our list management has been about average, we have had our fair share of bad picks as SF51 documented in the OP, but plenty of good ones too, otherwise we wouldn't have won a bloody flag in 2012. I agree that the recruiting since 2012 has a question mark around it, perhaps we won't be able to assess it fully until we've had a year without trading restrictions. I tend to believe that it is not all that meaningful to compare Beatson's stats to the average recruiter for the simple reason that I am not convinced that other recruiters would have fared significantly better given the picks that we have had available in a period of compromised drafts. But I still think it's an interesting discussion point.

I honestly don't get the angst here (and this is directed at everyone now), we all love the Swans, we don't all have to agree, but if you can't engage in a debate without getting personal, I suggest you go elsewhere, otherwise we'll make that call for you. Simple.
 

barry fu

Premiership Player
Jun 8, 2009
3,128
764
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sth Freo/Forest/Tricky Trees
Beatson The Brazen, has been shafting Club Bloods for many a moon. The man of misses not mystery has from within and afar affronted and assassinated as always on the Right of Red and White.
Whilst the dirt dossier dished up so far is compelling and considerably concise when cast in a constructive candle light - his charge sheet is not yet complete. There is much more mayhem, misadventures and madness to be considered in the Swans Salem slathering of Beatson The Bastard.

Let it be noted - not neglected nor never nattered of from herein herewith henceforth heigh ho.

Pick 31 of the 1997 draft(ours) - was exchanged, with the laughable lowly loins for Simon Hawking and the late Brent Green(RIP).
Yet more yobbery bestowed by Beatson The Bird Brain. Whilst working with others for others other than Club Bloods - that must not be unpunished or untold undoubtedly.
 

Cheer Red Blood

DESTINY IS ALL
Sep 27, 2003
3,409
405
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
It's pretty simple. Paraphrasing a post I read on the Lions board recently during the Aish saga, any player is worth more in Vic/SA/WA than they are in Qld/NSW, which is why Aish left Brisbane and why many others left Sydney and Brisbane before him. Worth more off-field, worth more to be in the thick of footy culture, worth more in most cases because they're closer to home/friends/family, it's just the way it is.
I don't disagree on this.
NSW and QLD have been forced over the years to recruit from the rest of Aus much more than the rest of the league.
But there is the flip side, too, - not everyone wants to be in the thick of it. Like Plugger.

However, my point is there are ways of mitigating this, and that we play finals near every year has to be a positive factor for prospective draftees. As is the opportunity to live in Sydney, over say, Adelaide, lol, or Perth - the most isolated city in the world.

Some stay for 15 years, look at Simon Black. Some will leave, like Des Headland. The Lions got a good trade there tho.
Some stay for 17 years like Adam Goodes, some like O'Loughlin get homesick, find it hard to adjust to the big city but end up staying anyway.

I do not agree that this changes things for our draft/trade strategy.
It is all risk/reward and of course if there are two players rated about equal, but one is closer to their family etc, go the guy who might like some independence, a new city, new experiences etc.

As we experienced with Membrey last year there will be guys we want to keep who want to leave, but in terms of getting 'value' back for them, Sydney don't seem overly concerned with that anyway, any seem to want to be the good guys who help get guys where they want to go. See also Andrejs Everitt.

And to go back to my earlier point, playing seniors, or seeing that there is the possibility of that must mitigate any feelings of homesickness to some degree.

There will always be good players available.
Ask Tom Rockliff if he'd like a trade to Benalla. Sam Reid, Ben Reid.
David Mundy has been at Freo over a decade. I recall Freo saying at the time they we're increasingly looking at the country leagues as those guys know they're leaving home anyway.
 

RW

Premium Platinum
Jan 11, 2003
15,161
16,194
AFL Club
Sydney
Horse stands by his man

Longmire said he fully supported the recommendations made to him by the club’s recruiting department about the best way to approach the evening.

“We are going into this draft period as we always do with full faith in our recruiting team led by Kinnear Beatson.”

“Kinnear is a fantastic person to have involved at that very important part of the football club so he will lead the discussion surrounding what will happen on draft night as he always does.”
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2015-11-02/draft-night-decisions-for-swans
 

mtooler

Premiership Player
Feb 5, 2012
4,003
4,023
AFL Club
Sydney
Beatson has been diabolical. Yes I think I and many others could do a better job. I think making choices blindfolded throwing darts at a dart board with names on it would have yeilded more success. First round choices have been terrible consistantly! On the flip side as a card collector it has made them cheaper for me when collecting Swans cards.
 

GoTheSwannies

Premiership Player
Aug 5, 2009
4,509
3,152
AFL Club
Sydney
Beats on shouldn't be allowed to draft qst rounders. We should bring someone else in for that.

He's good at spotting diamonds in the rough but can't seem to nail the top end talent. Granted. It's not like he gets top 3 picks or anything like that. Guess it's a slightly different skill
 

Tuco

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 28, 2005
12,017
14,376
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Bloods

robbieando

Moderator
Oct 9, 2001
16,305
9,279
AFL Club
Sydney
If Dunkley nominates then we don't need to take any "live" picks in the draft meaning over two years James Rose would be the only "live" pick taken by the club at the National Draft.
 

RW

Premium Platinum
Jan 11, 2003
15,161
16,194
AFL Club
Sydney
That aside, I definitely get the sense more this year than in any year since I've been posting that the club really does read and react to social media.
I've got no doubt that they at least monitor it, we've seen Pridham become more active on Twitter since he took over from Colless. I am still of the view that there is more room for engagement with supporters online than what we currently get (which is very little let's be honest), and that discussion forums are a better place to do it than Twitter.
 

Heeney2Franklin

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 20, 2007
26,666
16,386
AFL Club
Sydney
I've got no doubt that they at least monitor it, we've seen Pridham become more active on Twitter since he took over from Colless. I am still of the view that there is more room for engagement with supporters online than what we currently get (which is very little let's be honest), and that discussion forums are a better place to do it than Twitter.
Its probably not their fault regarding Swans.com and other media involving our club i simply dont think we have the budget allocated to it like other clubs.

Its evident with the pre-season content as well
 

FreeAgent1

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2012
1,222
745
AFL Club
Sydney
Its probably not their fault regarding Swans.com and other media involving our club i simply dont think we have the budget allocated to it like other clubs.

Its evident with the pre-season content as well
I have a 'friend' (dont like the guy) who works for collingwood media, they have like 6 people . The swans barely have that many coaches
 

Top Bottom