Draft Watcher Knightmare 2020 Draft Almanac

[Shai]

Phantom Drafts:

AFL Draft Power Rankings:

Weekly AFL Draft Wraps:

AFL Draft Previews/Reviews:
17/1/2020 - My team of the decade ahead prediction 2020-2029: https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/28492495/our-afl-team-2020-29

AFL Trade/Free Agency Content:

Re the team of the decade -
You pretty much chose a team of most of my fav players right now. (Apart from the fact that none of them are playing for Geelong)

Whether that team will still be best even a couple of years from now, remains to be seen.

I have question marks over the midfield at least. There may be a few that go past those, don't particularly like Oliver or Rowell.

Strangely enough the Suns also took Flanders, who shut down Rowell in at least 2 games I've seen and yet, his (Flanders) profile is much lower and he was better when played fwd of the ball.

No comment really on the older players, except to say that they will do what is best for them.

I like that you put McGrath back, it's where he plays best & the 'laconic' comment about Lukosius is very apt. The best players always seem to have time.

 

[Kwality]

For talls, I think we need to reserve judgement for 4-5 years. Guys like Weitering and Schache are only just starting to really hold their own on the field 4 years into their careers, while being overwhelmingly s**t on by fans for not performing ever since they were drafted. Both look on track to do well in the next couple of years, but you might've thought they were both complete duds based on the criticism they've been getting.

Talls take a while to develop, and it's not fair for us to expect them to be able to compete at the top level too early when they are being matched up on guys like Josh Kennedy, Jeremy Cameron, Phil Davis, Tom Hawkins, Nick Haynes, etc.

Sometimes you get exceptions like Harris Andrews and Aaron Naughton, but these really aren't the guys who we should be comparing to. Jeremy McGovern is one of the best tall defenders in the competition, but he took years to really hit anywhere close to the level he's at now

I got to the stage of thinking McGovern was a list clogger, I was wrong.

McGovern was drafted by the Eagles with the 44th pick in the 2011 Rookie Draft (held in late 2010). He was elevated to the senior list in November 2013. In late 2013, McGovern showed up for pre-season training significantly overweight, after a holiday to Thailand. He was "banished" from the club and told to pursue an individual training routine if he wished to continue his career, eventually losing 10 kg and regaining the trust of the coaching staff.

In his fourth year on West Coast's playing list, McGovern finally made his senior debut ...round six .. 2014 , ...Overall he managed 13 games in 2014.

 

[Knightmare]

For talls, I think we need to reserve judgement for 4-5 years. Guys like Weitering and Schache are only just starting to really hold their own on the field 4 years into their careers, while being overwhelmingly s**t on by fans for not performing ever since they were drafted. Both look on track to do well in the next couple of years, but you might've thought they were both complete duds based on the criticism they've been getting.

Talls take a while to develop, and it's not fair for us to expect them to be able to compete at the top level too early when they are being matched up on guys like Josh Kennedy, Jeremy Cameron, Phil Davis, Tom Hawkins, Nick Haynes, etc.

Sometimes you get exceptions like Harris Andrews and Aaron Naughton, but these really aren't the guys who we should be comparing to. Jeremy McGovern is one of the best tall defenders in the competition, but he took years to really hit anywhere close to the level he's at now

Part of the challenge with KPPs is projecting ahead.

My general view is after 4 years you know who they are.

My criteria has always been
1. Rate of improvement
2. Standard of performance/numbers
3. Points of difference

I find the best combination of those tends to indicate how good someone will be, and it's one of those you can keep assessing every year.

Re the team of the decade -
You pretty much chose a team of most of my fav players right now. (Apart from the fact that none of them are playing for Geelong)

Whether that team will still be best even a couple of years from now, remains to be seen.

I have question marks over the midfield at least. There may be a few that go past those, don't particularly like Oliver or Rowell.

Strangely enough the Suns also took Flanders, who shut down Rowell in at least 2 games I've seen and yet, his (Flanders) profile is much lower and he was better when played fwd of the ball.

No comment really on the older players, except to say that they will do what is best for them.

I like that you put McGrath back, it's where he plays best & the 'laconic' comment about Lukosius is very apt. The best players always seem to have time.

Very interesting you're not an Oliver fan. He was actually my first picked midfielder (rightly or wrongly I'm happy for people to debate that). Mostly due to combination of standard of play in combination with age (being younger than Cripps/Bont). My projection for Oliver is a season a touch better than 2018, in the year ahead assuming the ongoing health and dominance of Gawn.

Also interesting re. Rowell. The only argument I can make against is he's only 180cm and not a taller mid, suggesting his upside may be more limited than some others.

Flanders I like, Gold Coast didn't mess up that selection. He outplayed Rowell and Anderson in that final, so he's one with the capacity to become a major part of their core going forward.

Clark was the only Cat I gave serious consideration to. He looks good.

McGrath I view as much better in defence. So good defending, wins his own ball, but then provides meaningful run. Through the midfield I see him as likely only to be a good-very good mid. In defence, he can be elite. It was either his first or second year, I think he had the best 1v1 win rate of anyone in defence if I recall correctly. He's perfectly suited.

And anyone who knows me will know how much of a fan I am and remain of Lukosius. People are sleeping on how good his second half of the season was. Gold Coast better not mess up his development because he's someone if played through on all offensive drives a bit like how Collingwood played through Nathan Buckley seemingly on every offensive drive in the 90s and early 00s, Lukosius will be slicing games open by foot and really causing trouble with his running.

 

[GWS Goose]

Firstly I d start by saying that picking a team of the upcoming decade is a near impossible task (which is what makes it so much fun!)
It is likely that hardly any of us will get overly close.it is likely players we are yet to see will be in the team.
For that reason I d go a very different route.
Take Oliver for example, he is a very good player who any club would love to have him. He'll probably finish with 300 games and a couple best and fairest, but he is just not brilliant enough or damaging enough to be a team of the decade player. He is comparable to Josh Kennedy, as good as he is, he doesn't get a look in for team of the decade. Guys like Danger, Dusty and Pendlebury take those spots.
I see the logic of the not picking guys after 93, but the existing stars that have long contracts will probably get a bit of cred for pre 2020 form. I'd seriously consider Jeremy Cameron and Steve Cognilo (Giants bias acknowledged), at least you know they will be bona fide stars for the front half the decade.
For the yet to be proven players I'd go for the guys who could be brilliant stars and hope for longevity. They may end up having a lesser career than the sure bet of an Oliver, but if it works out have the potential to be a team of the decade player. So have Rankine, the King twins, Lukocious, Rayner and Noah Anderson in consideration, all have limitless ceilings. I think Cripps, Bontapelli and Whitfield are the most obvious selections. Already superstars and have the brilliance to stand out over a decade of great players. I think Naughton and Sam Taylor (again possible Giants bias) are my next 2 very good choices.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

I see the logic of the not picking guys after 93, but the existing stars that have long contracts will probably get a bit of cred for pre 2020 form. I'd seriously consider Jeremy Cameron and Steve Cognilo (Giants bias acknowledged), at least you know they will be bona fide stars for the front half the decade.

1994 is already a little generous in that sense - Whitfield will be 30 by Grand Final day 2024, and those two are obviously older again.

 

[GWS Goose]

1994 is already a little generous in that sense - Whitfield will be 30 by Grand Final day 2024, and those two are obviously older again.

They'll all play the first 7 years of the decade at least. You know barring mishap they'll likely be stars for the first 5 at least. That makes them a safer bet than a kid with talent yet to establish themselves. If you look at the decade just past, Nick Riewoldt was a year older entering the decade than Cogs and Cameron.
It is a super hard thing to predict and alot has to go right to be a team of the decade player, there are huge questions on every selection.

 

[GWS Goose]

Let's have ago my team of the decade

B. McGrath. H Andrews. Taylor

HB Whitfield. B King. Sicily

C Tim Kelly. Bontapelli. McCluggage

HF Lukocious. J Cameron. J Stevenson

F Rankine. A Naughton. Rayner

Fol Grundy Cripps. Cognilo

Int N Anderson, M Rowell. Walsh M.King

 

[Knightmare]

Let's have ago my team of the decade

B. McGrath. H Andrews. Taylor

HB Whitfield. B King. Sicily

C Tim Kelly. Bontapelli. McCluggage

HF Lukocious. J Cameron. J Stevenson

F Rankine. A Naughton. Rayner

Fol Grundy Cripps. Cognilo

Int N Anderson, M Rowell. Walsh M.King

My immediate reservations are around Cameron and Coniglio. They each turn 27 this year. I can't see either of them running around in 2029, or offering enough value for the total decade to be players I'd take. Coniglio I consider out of place on a team like this. I don't view him as even a top-10 in the competition mid and I don't think he ever quite gets there. For GWS I'd have to say Taranto has to be decisively ahead of Coniglio when talking about what he projects to provide over the next 10 years. Taranto is much younger and I'd argue a better footballer already - what many won't realise with Taranto is also very good forward of centre and I hope to see him used forward more often over the next few years so that the likes of Green/Hopper among others get their midfield minutes.

Rayner I feel will come good but needs to show more at AFL level before he can justify a position. Particularly given he is two years in and has struggled to establish himself as someone who could even find more than 16d in a game this year. And his only 3 goal haul was against Gold Coast. Petracca as a similar type as a point of comparison, not that he made my team, but I'd be taking Petracca ahead of Rayner at this time based on what I've seen from the pair to date.

 

[GWS Goose]

My immediate reservations are around Cameron and Coniglio. They each turn 27 this year. I can't see either of them running around in 2029, or offering enough value for the total decade to be players I'd take. Coniglio I consider out of place on a team like this. I don't view him as even a top-10 in the competition mid and I don't think he ever quite gets there. For GWS I'd have to say Taranto has to be decisively ahead of Coniglio when talking about what he projects to provide over the next 10 years. Taranto is much younger and I'd argue a better footballer already - what many won't realise with Taranto is also very good forward of centre and I hope to see him used forward more often over the next few years so that the likes of Green/Hopper among others get their midfield minutes.

Rayner I feel will come good but needs to show more at AFL level before he can justify a position. Particularly given he is two years in and has struggled to establish himself as someone who could even find more than 16d in a game this year. And his only 3 goal haul was against Gold Coast. Petracca as a similar type as a point of comparison, not that he made my team, but I'd be taking Petracca ahead of Rayner at this time based on what I've seen from the pair to date.

The reason for Cognilo (who we obviously rate very differently) is that my Giants bias has the next 5 years being a Golden period for us. He'll play at least 7 years this decade. AI think we'll contend the whole period and as captain that will get him a heap of bonus points when putting together a side like this. Although his leadership and hardness is well acknowledged his class is massively under rated. If we perennially contend he'll get his due credit. If the Giants grab a couple of premierships he is a very good chance for a look in. Same thought process for Cameron.
In a team like this every player is a huge risk, so much has to happen to make the team of the decade.
Rayner was probably my biggest risk. But figure he has the potential to turn into that super strong Dusty type. His ceiling is very high. He is also the player most likely to amount to not much.
As for Taranto, he is an excellent player, and will be brilliant for us, but I see him as at his best being a fringe AA player at times, but never being the team of the decade type. I see his future as a high half forward as well.
It is an incredibly hard task!

 

[mattyc75]

My immediate reservations are around Cameron and Coniglio. They each turn 27 this year. I can't see either of them running around in 2029, or offering enough value for the total decade to be players I'd take. Coniglio I consider out of place on a team like this. I don't view him as even a top-10 in the competition mid and I don't think he ever quite gets there. For GWS I'd have to say Taranto has to be decisively ahead of Coniglio when talking about what he projects to provide over the next 10 years. Taranto is much younger and I'd argue a better footballer already - what many won't realise with Taranto is also very good forward of centre and I hope to see him used forward more often over the next few years so that the likes of Green/Hopper among others get their midfield minutes.

Rayner I feel will come good but needs to show more at AFL level before he can justify a position. Particularly given he is two years in and has struggled to establish himself as someone who could even find more than 16d in a game this year. And his only 3 goal haul was against Gold Coast. Petracca as a similar type as a point of comparison, not that he made my team, but I'd be taking Petracca ahead of Rayner at this time based on what I've seen from the pair to date.

How little of the decade would a player need to have played to be considered? A gun 6 years would be better than a lesser 9?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Knightmare]

How little of the decade would a player need to have played to be considered? A gun 6 years would be better than a lesser 9?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

From my team of the last decade Sam Mitchell playing 8/10 seasons in the decade (missing 2018/2019) is about as much as can be reasonably missed. Everyone else from my team of the last decade played 9+ seasons and almost all played the full 10. And I find Mitchell justifyable because he was not only so great but durability when he was playing, playing more games than some good players who played the full 10 years.

Every season and game missed is lost potential value, so there really needs to be a strong priority on those who played the most games as depth players on teams shouldn't be relied on.

If Grundy/Whitfield/Kelly etc don't play minimum 8 seasons of the decade, there will be players at their positions who will provide greater value. Same goes with Cameron/Coniglio. And same applies with younger guys if they get hurt and miss seasons or retire prematurely. So it's every bit as much about picking guys who are available to play each week as much as superiority of quality at their respective positions.

My team of the past decade for those interested:

One change I would consider having thought further since making that team from last decade is bringing in Michael Hurley for Shaun Burgoyne to add a fraction more height to the squad and ensure that defence doesn't get exposed for height. But I do like having Burgoyne in there with his versatility and how valuable he is in the critical moments.

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

I couldn't disagree more strongly on this point.

His first half was glimpses but he didn't get the rewards for his hard work. The second half he was one of Gold Coast's better players.

Aaron Naughton for a point of comparison who this time last year I said was going off his first season the best player in his draft class (and this year my view is he created seperation in that discussion), in some categories Lukosius' numbers are actually favourable.

Specifically 62 marks from Lukosius in his last 11 games v Naughton (who himself got really hot late in his first season) managed only 44 over his last 11. Naughton is the stronger contested mark with 15 contested marks in his last 5 games in 2018, really getting hot during that time v Lukosius who only had the 11 for the season.

But when we're talking about first year key position players getting numbers like that, they're exceptional. Until season three and more commonly season four normally key position players aren't normally all that effective, including the great ones. Per 22 games taking Lukosius' 62 marks, that's 124 marks. They're ridiculous numbers for a key position player in their first year. That's basically Alex Rance's career marks per game average (125.84 per game). Different roles obviously, but you look at Rance and until who wasn't picked until his second season and wasn't effective until his 4th season - as someone who was a liability until then at AFL level as with so many young key position players.



This is the key point with Lukosius and why I brought him up as a talking about. He hasn't even got into the pace of AFL yet. Once he knows where to run, when to run and builds that chemistry with his teams (and they're things he did to perfection at the lower levels so he'll develop that) and gains that confidence to use his kicking and vision, he can kill teams.

The half hearted element is from his appearance being laconic out on the field in the way Pendlebury looks laconic at times. He doesn't look like he's going hard, but if you watch the tape and see the tape of him running, he's really working hard. There was a clip on the Gold Coast website where from a centre bounce Lukosius ran all the way from the wing and got on the end of it in or near the goalsquare to finish. The video included Lukosius going through the footage of that play with the coaches. And they're the kinds of plays he is capable of that aren't immediately obvious unless watching him directly.



I'm taking Lukosius still.

They're good for different things. If I need someone to do damage close to goal, King's the guy doing that. He's the stronger contested mark and has that stronger presence to him.

Lukosius is a different animal entirely and beats teams in a unique way we haven't really seen yet, and I hope Gold Coast if they move him forward again in the future start playing through him as much as possible to exploit his work rate, let him take his 10 marks per game and kill teams with his kicking/vision and really generate a lot of drive with his quick through the air bullets to break through zones and generate easy offence. He can kick like Ben Reid could kick in 2011 for those who watched Collingwood that year. It may have been the best season of Pendlebury/D.Thomas/Cloke/L.Davis etc and Reid was in my view that best and most important player with the way he launched 60m bombs that cut through the air and over and through defences and set up so much offence.

Completely agree with you that Lukosius' vision and kicking shows that he will be an elite player as he matures.
He was beginning to get more involved and push forward from centre in the last couple of games for the year. - note the 2 GA in final 2 games. Sexton burnt him twice in the last game of the year - Lukosius could have had 2 unopposed running shots from just beyond the 50 mark - which he can easily make.

 

[Knightmare]

Completely agree with you that Lukosius' vision and kicking shows that he will be an elite player as he matures.
He was beginning to get more involved and push forward from centre in the last couple of games for the year. - note the 2 GA in final 2 games. Sexton burnt him twice in the last game of the year - Lukosius could have had 2 unopposed running shots from just beyond the 50 mark - which he can easily make.

I'm Lukosius' biggest fan.

Ask me as a Pies fan one player from any club list who would I want? Lukosius is my guy. On a short kicking team like Collingwood who keep possession, they could play through Lukosius and he'd be taking 10 marks per game and doing incredible damage by foot whether it's hitting i50 targets others just can't see or launching from up the ground finding open targets with low, long kicks that cut through the air. He'd kill teams. If Gold Coast start getting the ball into Lukosius' hands and start playing through him, the Suns will improve in a hurry.

 

[Shai]

Part of the challenge with KPPs is projecting ahead.

My general view is after 4 years you know who they are.

My criteria has always been
1. Rate of improvement
2. Standard of performance/numbers
3. Points of difference

I find the best combination of those tends to indicate how good someone will be, and it's one of those you can keep assessing every year.



Very interesting you're not an Oliver fan. He was actually my first picked midfielder (rightly or wrongly I'm happy for people to debate that). Mostly due to combination of standard of play in combination with age (being younger than Cripps/Bont). My projection for Oliver is a season a touch better than 2018, in the year ahead assuming the ongoing health and dominance of Gawn.

Also interesting re. Rowell. The only argument I can make against is he's only 180cm and not a taller mid, suggesting his upside may be more limited than some others.

Flanders I like, Gold Coast didn't mess up that selection. He outplayed Rowell and Anderson in that final, so he's one with the capacity to become a major part of their core going forward.

Clark was the only Cat I gave serious consideration to. He looks good.

McGrath I view as much better in defence. So good defending, wins his own ball, but then provides meaningful run. Through the midfield I see him as likely only to be a good-very good mid. In defence, he can be elite. It was either his first or second year, I think he had the best 1v1 win rate of anyone in defence if I recall correctly. He's perfectly suited.

And anyone who knows me will know how much of a fan I am and remain of Lukosius. People are sleeping on how good his second half of the season was. Gold Coast better not mess up his development because he's someone if played through on all offensive drives a bit like how Collingwood played through Nathan Buckley seemingly on every offensive drive in the 90s and early 00s, Lukosius will be slicing games open by foot and really causing trouble with his running.

I'm now curious why you would say Gold Coast better not mess up his (Lukosius') development.

Did he not just sign a contract extension or do you believe he will be at your club anyway.?

B4 anyone gets on their high horse, I'm answering the quoted reply to my post.

 

[Knightmare]

I'm now curious why you would say Gold Coast better not mess up his (Lukosius') development.

Did he not just sign a contract extension or do you believe he will be at your club anyway.?

B4 anyone gets on their high horse, I'm answering the quoted reply to my post.

I'm worried about Gold Coast's record developing talent.

David Swallow, Jaeger O'Meara and Jack Martin projected to be top-5 players in the league.

Harley Bennell early days was a freak and Sam Day had great scope to develop.

Maverick Weller, Luke Russell, Josh Toy (heart) were all pre-listed but top-10 in draft talents. Trent McKenzie a first round quality player. Zac Smith had a great first season and never improved. Tom Nicholls looked great early days but never established himself. Kade Kolodjashnij started his career strongly but didn't improve after those first couple of years. Peter Wright looked good in his second and third seasons but hasn't progressed since. Rory Thompson looked like he could be a monster but isn't.

Seb Tape and Daniel Gorringe never developed as first rounders.

Then looking at current guys Jack Bowes and Will Brodie aren't as advanced as expected. Neither is Ainsworth.

The good developmental stories are few and far between. Tom Lynch is their best story but then he goes to Richmond and they refer to him as entirely untapped. Gold Coast have also had relative success with Steven May, Adam Saad, Dion Prestia, Alex Sexton, Jarrod Witts and Charlie Ballard, but that's the extent to their success developing talent.

How Lukosius, Rankine, King, Rowell, Anderson, Flanders and Ballard develop from now will be a big indicator as to whether Gold Coast have become capable developing their own talent or not. They all project as future A-graders, so if several of them only become serviceable, it's an indication that Gold Coast's player development still requires a lot of work.

 

[Shai]

I'm worried about Gold Coast's record developing talent.

David Swallow, Jaeger O'Meara and Jack Martin projected to be top-5 players in the league.

Harley Bennell early days was a freak and Sam Day had great scope to develop.

Maverick Weller, Luke Russell, Josh Toy (heart) were all pre-listed but top-10 in draft talents. Trent McKenzie a first round quality player. Zac Smith had a great first season and never improved. Tom Nicholls looked great early days but never established himself. Kade Kolodjashnij started his career strongly but didn't improve after those first couple of years. Peter Wright looked good in his second and third seasons but hasn't progressed since. Rory Thompson looked like he could be a monster but isn't.

Seb Tape and Daniel Gorringe never developed as first rounders.

Then looking at current guys Jack Bowes and Will Brodie aren't as advanced as expected. Neither is Ainsworth.

The good developmental stories are few and far between. Tom Lynch is their best story but then he goes to Richmond and they refer to him as entirely untapped. Gold Coast have also had relative success with Steven May, Adam Saad, Dion Prestia, Alex Sexton, Jarrod Witts and Charlie Ballard, but that's the extent to their success developing talent.

How Lukosius, Rankine, King, Rowell, Anderson, Flanders and Ballard develop from now will be a big indicator as to whether Gold Coast have become capable developing their own talent or not. They all project as future A-graders, so if several of them only become serviceable, it's an indication that Gold Coast's player development still requires a lot of work.

Oh man, thank you for the opportunity!

Swallow - tried to carry too much, too early & the fact that the Suns were training out of tin sheds & the grounds up here can be treacherous, remind me where they did their training b4 the Commonwealth Games.?

Jaeger, pretty much see above. More talent but not the integrity.

Martin is an enigma still.

Harley had the potential to be the best but see K.Hunt, also refer to that when looking @ other impressionable young men. I believe that filth was an AFL appointment in an attempt to recruit a fan base.

Sam is a good soldier, tries his guts out but been injured so often, that reflects back on the training surfaces in the early years and he's not the lone ranger there.

Weller, Russell, Toy. - Top 10 in who's opinion.? I'd add Tape & Gorringe to this list.

Trent McKenzie a first round quality player. - Had 2 good seasons at the most but believe he was 1 of Dixon & K.Hunts mates.

Zac Smith had a great first season and never improved. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same.

Tom Nicholls looked great early days but never established himself. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same. Note he probably didn't have the necessary 'hunger' required.

Kade Kolodjashnij started his career strongly but didn't improve after those first couple of years. - Suffered injuries & never came back the same.

Peter Wright looked good in his second and third seasons but hasn't progressed since. - Probably a disappointment but some talls take time & he is much heavier than your athletic type fwd.

Rory Thompson looked like he could be a monster but isn't. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same. Sound familiar.?

Ainsworth, injury & played out of position. I believe Bowes was also injured but has shown glimpses, as has Brodie who just may be a late bloomer or a bust.

Lynch & Prestia are 2 I've spoken of often in their careers, happy for the success they've had.

I won't speak to you about the players GC have taken in the last 2 years because that remains to be seen.

 

[briztoon]

Oh man, thank you for the opportunity!

Swallow - tried to carry too much, too early & the fact that the Suns were training out of tin sheds & the grounds up here can be treacherous, remind me where they did their training b4 the Commonwealth Games.?

Jaeger, pretty much see above. More talent but not the integrity.

Martin is an enigma still.

Harley had the potential to be the best but see K.Hunt, also refer to that when looking @ other impressionable young men. I believe that filth was an AFL appointment in an attempt to recruit a fan base.

Sam is a good soldier, tries his guts out but been injured so often, that reflects back on the training surfaces in the early years and he's not the lone ranger there.

Weller, Russell, Toy. - Top 10 in who's opinion.? I'd add Tape & Gorringe to this list.

Trent McKenzie a first round quality player. - Had 2 good seasons at the most but believe he was 1 of Dixon & K.Hunts mates.

Zac Smith had a great first season and never improved. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same.

Tom Nicholls looked great early days but never established himself. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same. Note he probably didn't have the necessary 'hunger' required.

Kade Kolodjashnij started his career strongly but didn't improve after those first couple of years. - Suffered injuries & never came back the same.

Peter Wright looked good in his second and third seasons but hasn't progressed since. - Probably a disappointment but some talls take time & he is much heavier than your athletic type fwd.

Rory Thompson looked like he could be a monster but isn't. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same. Sound familiar.?

Ainsworth, injury & played out of position. I believe Bowes was also injured but has shown glimpses, as has Brodie who just may be a late bloomer or a bust.

Lynch & Prestia are 2 I've spoken of often in their careers, happy for the success they've had.

I won't speak to you about the players GC have taken in the last 2 years because that remains to be seen.

Probably need to go in to more depth.

People who don’t follow a team they’re discussing, often don’t really know the ins and outs of every player at that club, so might not know the how or why.

For example Kade Kolodjashnij. It’s not just “injuries”. It’s multiple concussions, and he’s lucky to be back out playing. There were genuine concerns he might not make back out of the field.

So it’s not that Kade’s development stalled. It was his inability to actually train and play due to ongoing concussion symptoms that “stalled” his development.

But he’s at Gold Coast, so it’s not like it’s a news worthy story for AFL.com or SEN, etc.

 

[Knightmare]

Oh man, thank you for the opportunity!

Swallow - tried to carry too much, too early & the fact that the Suns were training out of tin sheds & the grounds up here can be treacherous, remind me where they did their training b4 the Commonwealth Games.?

Jaeger, pretty much see above. More talent but not the integrity.

Martin is an enigma still.

Harley had the potential to be the best but see K.Hunt, also refer to that when looking @ other impressionable young men. I believe that filth was an AFL appointment in an attempt to recruit a fan base.

Sam is a good soldier, tries his guts out but been injured so often, that reflects back on the training surfaces in the early years and he's not the lone ranger there.

Weller, Russell, Toy. - Top 10 in who's opinion.? I'd add Tape & Gorringe to this list.

Trent McKenzie a first round quality player. - Had 2 good seasons at the most but believe he was 1 of Dixon & K.Hunts mates.

Zac Smith had a great first season and never improved. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same.

Tom Nicholls looked great early days but never established himself. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same. Note he probably didn't have the necessary 'hunger' required.

Kade Kolodjashnij started his career strongly but didn't improve after those first couple of years. - Suffered injuries & never came back the same.

Peter Wright looked good in his second and third seasons but hasn't progressed since. - Probably a disappointment but some talls take time & he is much heavier than your athletic type fwd.

Rory Thompson looked like he could be a monster but isn't. - Suffered an injury & never came back the same. Sound familiar.?

Ainsworth, injury & played out of position. I believe Bowes was also injured but has shown glimpses, as has Brodie who just may be a late bloomer or a bust.

Lynch & Prestia are 2 I've spoken of often in their careers, happy for the success they've had.

I won't speak to you about the players GC have taken in the last 2 years because that remains to be seen.

Others can be added to the list. Matera, Shaw, Dixon. Wilkinson I liked as a junior but never came on either.

As you've identified, injuries have played a part in a lot of those cases mentioned in my previous post. But even on return from injuries guys haven't fulfilled their potential and it's the group at large rather than a small minority.

Gold Coast need to as well as development and retention work continue improving with their injury prevention and injury management practices so that we can see the best of their players and see how they can look if developed. The proof is always in the pudding, Gold Coast if they developed their talent successfully would be a top-8 side and would have retained their talent rather than losing almost all of it over the years.

As a neutral, I really want to see them turn it around because these young guys, a bit like their previous core have a good number of exciting players I want to see playing finals footy and fulfilling their potential.

 

[barrackers]

Gold Coast have also had relative success with Steven May, Adam Saad, Dion Prestia, Alex Sexton, Jarrod Witts and Charlie Ballard, but that's the extent to their success developing talent.

Witts is a good example of identifying a player trending upward, however he was a ready made player who GC got cheap. Anyone who watched much VFL footy knew he was worth more than the junk picks for father son points that GC paid. Witts was preferred over Grundy in R1 and lost his place due to a finger injury/infection. Thereafter Grundy took his chance and despite phenomenal form in the VFL that highlighted his development Witts never really got another look in.

 

[briztoon]

Others can be added to the list. Matera, Shaw, Dixon. Wilkinson I liked as a junior but never came on either.

As you've identified, injuries have played a part in a lot of those cases mentioned in my previous post. But even on return from injuries guys haven't fulfilled their potential and it's the group at large rather than a small minority.

Gold Coast need to as well as development and retention work continue improving with their injury prevention and injury management practices so that we can see the best of their players and see how they can look if developed. The proof is always in the pudding, Gold Coast if they developed their talent successfully would be a top-8 side and would have retained their talent rather than losing almost all of it over the years.

As a neutral, I really want to see them turn it around because these young guys, a bit like their previous core have a good number of exciting players I want to see playing finals footy and fulfilling their potential.

You are aware that they’ve basically replaced all the off field staff in the last 24 months, and are now allowed to spend 100% of their off field cap.

Previously they were limited to how many development coaches, welfare officers, etc they could employ because they were operating under a reduced cap.

They’ve basically had one arm tied behind their back by the AFL for much of their existence.

 

[Davo-27]

Witts is a good example of identifying a player trending upward, however he was a ready made player who GC got cheap. Anyone who watched much VFL footy knew he was worth more than the junk picks for father son points that GC paid. Witts was preferred over Grundy in R1 and lost his place due to a finger injury/infection. Thereafter Grundy took his chance and despite phenomenal form in the VFL that highlighted his development Witts never really got another look in.

yea Witts was quality already and you guys had Ceglar at one stage, the pies know how to identify rucks.

 

[Knightmare]

Witts is a good example of identifying a player trending upward, however he was a ready made player who GC got cheap. Anyone who watched much VFL footy knew he was worth more than the junk picks for father son points that GC paid. Witts was preferred over Grundy in R1 and lost his place due to a finger injury/infection. Thereafter Grundy took his chance and despite phenomenal form in the VFL that highlighted his development Witts never really got another look in.

Witts is Gold Coast's best player, but as you say, what he was doing for Collingwood VFL is what he is doing for Gold Coast now. He didn't need to improve radically, he just needed opportunity which wasn't happening on the same team with Grundy being relegated to relieving ruck if playing with Grundy.

You are aware that they’ve basically replaced all the off field staff in the last 24 months, and are now allowed to spend 100% of their off field cap.

Previously they were limited to how many development coaches, welfare officers, etc they could employ because they were operating under a reduced cap.

They’ve basically had one arm tied behind their back by the AFL for much of their existence.

That only means Gold Coast remain unproven and have yet to show evidence that they can keep guys healthy/develop talent.

yea Witts was quality already and you guys had Ceglar at one stage, the pies know how to identify rucks.

Pies also delisted Ceglar after two seasons. Pies probably should have retained him, but Hawthorn did a great job developing him to their credit.

 

[barrackers]

yea Witts was quality already and you guys had Ceglar at one stage, the pies know how to identify rucks.

Ceglar was a weird one. We had a heap of rucks (Jolly, Wood (2011), McNamara, Witts (2012)) and played him out of position in the VFL mostly as a forward ruck. Despite being able to take a grab we delisted him after only two seasons. The hawks done well to rookie list him, albeit McNamara also trained at Hawthorn for that spot.

There's a couple of other AFL rucks with Collingwood connections too - Callum Sinclair was on our VFL list never playing a game, while Sean Darcy trained with our VFL side.

 

[briztoon]

That only means Gold Coast remain unproven and have yet to show evidence that they can keep guys healthy/develop talent.

It also means the current regime can’t be held accountable for previous failures.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

No club would have survived the injuries GC went through, and done any better. All their midfield guns were struck down and lose key development time. Always behind the 8 ball.