Draft Watcher Knightmare 2020 Draft Almanac

[briztoon]

It’s not about having a good living on $400k. They could stay at their current club for $400k. IF you are an elite sportsman at an AFL club, would you leave your current $400k for $500k? Maybe. Would you leave for $600k, probably. For $700k, yes.

Perhaps you pay more but at least the culture gets fixed. Currently you pay extra to keep the young draftees.... having an elite culture run by older players, would make staying more attractive and not require paying the young ones as much.

You talked about giving up high draft picks to get such talent, and you said you keep making such trades until you have four of those players in the team.

That’s sacrificing the future for a potential short term gain.

Especially when you were saying GC should have been doing it a couple of seasons ago.

That would have meant giving up 4 of their high picks in the last two drafts.

Sure, they can fix up the culture in the short term, but then GC find themselves back down the bottom in 5 or 6 years time because they don’t have enough elite talent coming through to keep them climbing the ladder.


At Brisbane, we loaded up in the 2016 and 2017 drafts before we brought Hodge in. And Hodge didn’t cost us a high pick either.

At the end of this year, is probably the year for GC to possibly look for an experienced leader if there’s one available.

 

[InFineForm]

At the end of this year, is probably the year for GC to possibly look for an experienced leader if there’s one available.

You'd imagine the internal targets this year would be about consolidation & increased competitiveness later in games. Maybe an extra win or two, but largely focused on an improved percentage & guys learning their roles.
End of this year is the ideal time to bring in a Hodge clone who can start & teach about winning cultures & what it takes to win finals.
I think Dew still has at least one year of comfort before the blow torch gets applied to his nether regions in terms of win/loss.

 

[markm106]

Firstly I d start by saying that picking a team of the upcoming decade is a near impossible task (which is what makes it so much fun!)
It is likely that hardly any of us will get overly close.it is likely players we are yet to see will be in the team.
For that reason I d go a very different route.
Take Oliver for example, he is a very good player who any club would love to have him. He'll probably finish with 300 games and a couple best and fairest, but he is just not brilliant enough or damaging enough to be a team of the decade player. He is comparable to Josh Kennedy, as good as he is, he doesn't get a look in for team of the decade. Guys like Danger, Dusty and Pendlebury take those spots.
I see the logic of the not picking guys after 93, but the existing stars that have long contracts will probably get a bit of cred for pre 2020 form. I'd seriously consider Jeremy Cameron and Steve Cognilo (Giants bias acknowledged), at least you know they will be bona fide stars for the front half the decade.
For the yet to be proven players I'd go for the guys who could be brilliant stars and hope for longevity. They may end up having a lesser career than the sure bet of an Oliver, but if it works out have the potential to be a team of the decade player. So have Rankine, the King twins, Lukocious, Rayner and Noah Anderson in consideration, all have limitless ceilings. I think Cripps, Bontapelli and Whitfield are the most obvious selections. Already superstars and have the brilliance to stand out over a decade of great players. I think Naughton and Sam Taylor (again possible Giants bias) are my next 2 very good choices.

Surely you’re underrating Oliver there. He’s already won 2 best and fairest awards and been All Australian. He’s only 22yo. He wasn’t as damaging in 2019 as he was in 2018 but was coming off very little pre season due to a double shoulder reco.
I’ll be very surprised if he doesn’t add to the accolades over the next 10 years. I’ll go as far to say by the end of his career he could be the best demon I’ve seen.

 

[GWS Goose]

Surely you’re underrating Oliver there. He’s already won 2 best and fairest awards and been All Australian. He’s only 22yo. He wasn’t as damaging in 2019 as he was in 2018 but was coming off very little pre season due to a double shoulder reco.
I’ll be very surprised if he doesn’t add to the accolades over the next 10 years. I’ll go as far to say by the end of his career he could be the best demon I’ve seen.

Maybe I am selling him short. But my view is that he will be (already is) a very good player that any club would love. I agree he'll finish with a hell of a career, but don't think he takes hold of games like the blokes who make team of the decade. He'll never be like a Dusty, Danger and alike, and you have to be that guy to be team of the decade.. As I said, liken him to Kennedy or even Swan, great players but not dominant enough to get a look in for team of the decade..

 

[markm106]

Maybe I am selling him short. But my view is that he will be (already is) a very good player that any club would love. I agree he'll finish with a hell of a career, but don't think he takes hold of games like the blokes who make team of the decade. He'll never be like a Dusty, Danger and alike, and you have to be that guy to be team of the decade.. As I said, liken him to Kennedy or even Swan, great players but not dominant enough to get a look in for team of the decade..

I think you’ll have to give him a few more years to judge. He’s still developing. Whether he gets to Dusty or danger levels we’ll see. But he’s a generational type talent.

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

Scrimshaw was in Dew’s dog house. Mostly due to his inability to build anything close to a four quarter tank.

Sometimes a players lack of development doesn’t lay solely with the club. Players (especially those who don’t want to be at the club they’re at) have to take responsibility for their own work ethic and attitude.

Yes, a club has to create a culture that players have to buy in to. Some times, sone players just don’t buy in. Some times there’s a disconnect or falling out.


It happened at Brisbane last year with Tom Cutler. There were reports during the preseason that Tom wasn’t happy, and Tom was never able to work his way back in to the first team.

Fagan wanted Tom Cutler to play a certain way, and Tom wasn’t willing or able to play that way. He had it in him, we saw glimpses at NEAFL level. But he couldn’t play that way consistently.

Who’s fault is that? The coaching staff or the players?


You genuinely expected something from Martin last year? I said on the GC board beginning of last year you watch him walk through the season. And once he injured his finger I said he’d park it, and not likely play again.

Martins problem was never his talent, it has always been his inner drive and heart.


Do you actually watch many/any Suns games?

Against the Lions last year, Ainsworth was close to their best on ground against us up until just before half time, when he re-injured his shoulder.

If Ainsworth ever gets an injury free run from contact injuries, he’ll surprise people with how good he is.

Bowes is coming along nicely. At times he reminds me of McCluggage with how he moves.

Brodie’s “issues” are well documented up on GC. He doesn’t fit what Dew wants in his midfielders, but he sure is fighting for a first team spot. But there are only so many one paced, on position inside mids Dew will accept in his team (1), and that’s Swallow when he’s fit and healthy.


As for leaders emerging at Brisbane with Hodge’s arrival, that’s a media generated myth.

Every Lions fan on BF new Harris Andrews and Jarrod Berry were our future leaders before Hodge walked in the door. It’s just that they’re so young and the club isn’t willing to push them yet.

And before Hodge’s arrival, a big part of our drafting strategy was to draft young leaders.

What Hodge did do is drive standards to a new level.

But is freaking hard to blame Gold Coast for failing to recruit the Hodges of the league, when by your own admission there are only a few players like that in the competition, and if they don’t want to play for Gold Coast, there’s not much else the club can do, but for the coaches to drive standards themselves.

Plus miller and most of last year miles too
Hoping Rowell’s burst doesn’t put him here too

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

Aaro

On wins and losses Gold Coast overperformed last year. My expectations of Ainsworth/Bowes/Brodie are of top 5-10 picks, so if they're not top-20 players all things said and done from their draft, they're not successes based on how impressive they all were as juniors. Hopefully for Gold Coast they each improve a lot more because they're guys we should be talking about as A-graders.

It's obviously too early to say anyone within Gold Coast's coaching/development/fitness/health staff should be cut. We need to see more years from them. And as with any club, until a club has turned things around beyond doubt (ie become a top-4 side then a perennial top-4 side), they haven't.



I've found a lot of players have been in Dew's doghouse, and it seems pretty consistently to be Gold Coast's best players. Whether it's Lyons, Hall, Martin, Wright, Brodie. They're among the best players Gold Coast have had and are all the types of players I'd be looking to build around given how little talent their list has had in recent years.

On Tom Cutler, I've never been a fan. He's too outside and doesn't have a clear position he plays to a best 22 standard and is more of a stop-gap/depth guy for mine.

Martin I go into each season expecting Dale Thomas circa 2010 play from. I've found him effective and to have more than enough good moments to be one of Gold Coast's best players each year, but obviously he has never found that elite level of plays he was expected to attain within a few seasons, and that relative hope drops away slightly with each passing season. If motivation is indeed his issue, the key towards motivation has tended over time to come to those who play on winning teams with a strong mix of veteran leaders.

Ainsworth I've found patchy in his time with Gold Coast so far. You're right that injuries have hurt, and he has had his moments as you've alluded to, but I haven't found his standard of performance to be up to scratch to date. Particularly when we're talking about a sub 180cm guy who being of that size is someone you draft for who he is, as likely there isn't a great deal of improvement to come. He's quick and has that explosiveness, but he's low production, doesn't hit the scoreboard enough, hasn't been the marking threat i50 he looked as a junior and he's rarely laying tackles and not applying enough forward pressure.

I'm not as fussed by the concept of having too many one paced midfielders. I see there being room for more than one on a team. Speed in the midfield should be viewed as a bonus rather than requirement. Particularly when the guys used through there aren't winning the ball. On NEAFL performance and AFL performance when used through there, I've liked the play of Brodie and actually felt he has outperformed both Brodie and Ainsworth. He should be clear best 22. I would like to see him add more forward of centre craft though to round out his game. If Gold Coast don't afford Brodie the opportunities he should be getting next year, he'd fit an Essendon or Sydney very nicely as a plug and play midfielder who Gold Coast are underrating.

Bowes has been solid but I expect through the midfield as Rowell/Anderson emerge that he would be better used more as a flanker who rotates through the midfield, rather than as a midfielder first.

Brisbane may have identified and drafted some they viewed as young leaders, but through having Hodge there in combination with Chris Fagan as coach, the standards were driven and Hodge has taught the club's leaders the way and to the greatest extent Zorko who has really emerged in a big way as a leader. The young group will be better for having had Hodge and the way he set the standard both on and off the field. I'm sure you will have read it, but Alex Witherden's piece on Luke Hodge was the most illuminating on this subject on the extent to which Hodge has helped in Brisbane's transformation.

On Gold Coast, I do see opportunities missed. They let go of players they should never have, dropping several of them when they should have been players the club built around as central components. They also had opportunities over the years to target veterans who had been let go too soon. In 2016 to name just one year Brent Harvey and Jack Grimes would have been perfect targets and both would have loved another shot at another club. Aggressive offers for Dal Santo and Bartel could also have been made to see if they could be coaxed into joining the Suns for a couple of seasons. There are those kinds of names every season with veterans let go of too early every season.



Rayner's first season was solid but his second season was a regression and not impressive at all based on where I had expected him to be by this stage. Playing a greater proportion of his time forward and not hitting the scoreboard any more than his first season, particularly on a much improved Brisbane side is a disappointing result. I retain high hopes for Rayner in the long run because of his power and the way he can influence games when he's on, but for him it will be working on his running and building his endurance base with his work rate/energy lower than it needs to be as a forward.

I balance my watching of AFL games with NAB League/U18 Champs and some selective state league matches of interest. Being across more than just the AFL, I'm not watching every AFL team every week, but there aren't many players I'm not across in terms of role and how they're performing in a given season,

For the purposes of discussion I can rattle off what guys can/can't do, but to validate rationale behind anything, backing that rationale up with statistics I consider essential as it's direct evidence and something because I have standardised benchmarks at each position, something I can easily use as a point of comparison and use in the context of one's game.

Aaron hall and Tom curler are literally the same player.

From an nba perspective they’re your Kevin Martin - numbers look good. Less impact on actually winning

 

[Knightmare]

Aaro

Aaron hall and Tom curler are literally the same player.

From an nba perspective they’re your Kevin Martin - numbers look good. Less impact on actually winning

Aaron Hall and Tom Cutler are in entirely different categories.

Hall is not only is the more productive but also the more damaging footballer with Hall someone who provides drastically faster and provides drastically more run and drive.

From 2016-2018 Hall placed second for metres gained of the top 50 ball winners in the competition. And it's not like he's hacking it forward, Hall is one of the competition's elite kicks i50 with Hall 6th best of the top-70 i50 kicks from 2016-2018 on the lowly Suns which speaks. He's a rare offensive runner by position who has the speed/endurance but then also has the kick on an elite level to compliment all that. There's not a lot of guys in the competition who can do what he does, maybe none, and I'd argue on performance he's an ideal role player for a team lacking that ingredient (I'd say ideal for Gold Coast but Dew clearly didn't appreciate what he had in Hall).

In NBA terms it's more like comparing JJ Redick and Shannon Brown on performance. Hall/Redick both are your role players who as a specialist do what they do to a high level and at the same time people know their limitations, but the good they do more than compensates for their weaknesses. Cutler like Brown is a guy who can play if required but isn't someone who should get gametime and isn't that good that you'd expect to last all that much longer. It's comparing a difference maker who I'd evaluate on any team as a starting 18 player with a depth player.

I'll give Cutler credit in so much as he's a long kick and a capable kick i50. I'm still not fundamentally seeing a guy who in any one position is a clear best 22 player on any AFL side. He still has that to earn and as a guy who is 25 a month from now, he still has to develop into that level of player where beyond doubt he is best 22. Aaron Hall by contrast, once he was established, he was established beyond doubt for me. If Hall is in a mentally good place this year, expect him to have another strong season and provide the meaningful offensive drive for North Melbourne he was recruited to provide.

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

Aaron Hall and Tom Cutler are in entirely different categories.

Hall is not only is the more productive but also the more damaging footballer with Hall someone who provides drastically faster and provides drastically more run and drive.

From 2016-2018 Hall placed second for metres gained of the top 50 ball winners in the competition. And it's not like he's hacking it forward, Hall is one of the competition's elite kicks i50 with Hall 6th best of the top-70 i50 kicks from 2016-2018 on the lowly Suns which speaks. He's a rare offensive runner by position who has the speed/endurance but then also has the kick on an elite level to compliment all that. There's not a lot of guys in the competition who can do what he does, maybe none, and I'd argue on performance he's an ideal role player for a team lacking that ingredient (I'd say ideal for Gold Coast but Dew clearly didn't appreciate what he had in Hall).

In NBA terms it's more like comparing JJ Redick and Shannon Brown on performance. Hall/Redick both are your role players who as a specialist do what they do to a high level and at the same time people know their limitations, but the good they do more than compensates for their weaknesses. Cutler like Brown is a guy who can play if required but isn't someone who should get gametime and isn't that good that you'd expect to last all that much longer. It's comparing a difference maker who I'd evaluate on any team as a starting 18 player with a depth player.

I'll give Cutler credit in so much as he's a long kick and a capable kick i50. I'm still not fundamentally seeing a guy who in any one position is a clear best 22 player on any AFL side. He still has that to earn and as a guy who is 25 a month from now, he still has to develop into that level of player where beyond doubt he is best 22. Aaron Hall by contrast, once he was established, he was established beyond doubt for me. If Hall is in a mentally good place this year, expect him to have another strong season and provide the meaningful offensive drive for North Melbourne he was recruited to provide.

Left out where hall constantly burns teammates, blazes away at every opportunity.

Definitely a good, powerful forward runner but gives absolutely zero effort going the other way which is why he is not reddick.

Do you think hall would be in west coast or Richmond or Geelong best 22? I think for them, the negatives would outweigh the positives (unless they could change his style)

 

[Jirik13]

Hall is an example of a player where Knightmare looks at his stats and talent and assess him as a great player. Then Suns fans watched him every game and could not wait to drive him to the airport.

Yes, Hall had some great games for Suns and some of his highlights are fantastic. To see what's wrong with him just watch his performance against Freo in 2018. Ross assigned young Banfield to run with Hall (Ross was the expert to find the weakest link). I have never seens such a disappointing performance. Banfield applied a bit of physicality and Hall completely gave up. Not even pretending to tackle players running 1m from him. After that game Hall's papers were signed.

Not only Dew assessed Hall the same way. Some famous Rocket's sprays were reserved for Hall for not playing defence/his team role, being soft. He was not a popular teammate. It took Scott 6 games to figure out Hall and to drop him.

I wish Hall all the best but he is not a player to build the team around or being a good example for young players (quite the opposite). You could guaranteed when things got tough (most of the time) Hall disappeared. The opposite of a leader. The last thing Suns needed was to have Hall giving up on his teammates and sulking on the field while building a good culture and developing Rankine, King, Rowell,...

Would he flourish on a top team? I doubt. You got to be a team player first, play defence, play his role. Not even best teams can afford to cover for those deficiencies.

 

[Jeremias]

There are many things one can fairly criticise the Suns for; getting rid of Aaron Hall is not one of those things.

That's one thing they've got absolutely spot on in recent times. He's a bog ordinary footballer who doesn't have a defensive bone in his body. Not at all what you want in a 28 year old surrounded by kids.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

One wonders why Hall's been at senior level for so long.

Have always thought of him as meh.

If he was ever good, it was because his teammates got to the right spots and not because of Hall.

His teammates being in the right spots allowed and fostered the impression of Aaron being composed and adequately able to make an impact.

It's him and not Ablett who sums up the Suns.

Then there's him being interviewed by a Norf person even before the trade went through.

 

[Knightmare]

Left out where hall constantly burns teammates, blazes away at every opportunity.

Definitely a good, powerful forward runner but gives absolutely zero effort going the other way which is why he is not reddick.

Do you think hall would be in west coast or Richmond or Geelong best 22? I think for them, the negatives would outweigh the positives (unless they could change his style)

As per my earlier post. Any team, starting 18 if Hall is healthy physically and mentally.

I look forward to Hall proving people wrong this season as Lyons did last year, who I said since joining Gold Coast was their best midfielder.

People continue to miss the point on Gold Coast that aside from Ablett, Hall was the only guy generating meaningful drive. Absolutely he's a specialist, and that's why he's someone you blend in with a different combination of players.

Hall is a rare specimen because so many who run like him can't find enough of the footy to be viable. Hall has the speed, kick and gets you 25d per game, and did it on a bad team.

Hall can add similar value to North Melbourne to what Ricky Henderson added to Hawthorn if given the opportunities and allowed to do what he does.

 

[weltschmerz]

So. Why do you think Blakey and Green both dropped to 10 despite being generally rated higher? Do you think the same could happen with Ugle-Hagen? Especially considering there are a couple of other top tier key forwards in this draft, I'm hopeful.

 

[Knightmare]

So. Why do you think Blakey and Green both dropped to 10 despite being generally rated higher? Do you think the same could happen with Ugle-Hagen? Especially considering there are a couple of other top tier key forwards in this draft, I'm hopeful.

Poor talent ID and prioritising the wrong players.

With Green, clubs are cited as saying 'we prefer player x.' Clubs legitimately think the guys they took ahead of him will be better.

It would have been the same story with Blakey.

Obviously as per my power rankings these past two years, I think clubs are dead wrong on both for letting them drop so low.

Time will tell if I'm right.

 

[briztoon]

As per my earlier post. Any team, starting 18 if Hall is healthy physically and mentally.

I look forward to Hall proving people wrong this season as Lyons did last year, who I said since joining Gold Coast was their best midfielder.

People continue to miss the point on Gold Coast that aside from Ablett, Hall was the only guy generating meaningful drive. Absolutely he's a specialist, and that's why he's someone you blend in with a different combination of players.

Hall is a rare specimen because so many who run like him can't find enough of the footy to be viable. Hall has the speed, kick and gets you 25d per game, and did it on a bad team.

Hall can add similar value to North Melbourne to what Ricky Henderson added to Hawthorn if given the opportunities and allowed to do what he does.

Hall wouldn’t make the Lions best 22, for exactly the same reasons Cutler didn’t. They’re effectively the same player, but the Lions and Fagan wouldn’t tolerate poor defensive efforts, particularly once we had some midfield depth in 2019.

Same with the Suns under Dew.

 

[GWS Goose]

Poor talent ID and prioritising the wrong players.

With Green, clubs are cited as saying 'we prefer player x.' Clubs legitimately think the guys they took ahead of him will be better.

It would have been the same story with Blakey.

Obviously as per my power rankings these past two years, I think clubs are dead wrong on both for letting them drop so low.

Time will tell if I'm right.

Heard an interview with one of the recruiters on a podcast (pre draft) he predicted that most of the players attached to clubs already would fall lower than expected as the other clubs direct their limited resources to players they are able actually recruit. As they don't put the time into them they otherwise would, other players end up being preferred. He also noted the subconscious effect of knowing that you can't a player naturally devalues them. Makes sense to me.

 

[Knightmare]

Hall wouldn’t make the Lions best 22, for exactly the same reasons Cutler didn’t. They’re effectively the same player, but the Lions and Fagan wouldn’t tolerate poor defensive efforts, particularly once we had some midfield depth in 2019.

Same with the Suns under Dew.

Hall when up and going would be one of the first 15 I'd choose if he was inserted onto Brisbane's list.

As I'm sure you've picked up, my views on player selection doesn't align with the very of every coach or every list management team, and I view that advantageously and would view that from a list construction perspective view that as opportunity.

Just as you'd seek value in the property market that others don't see, the same applies in list management. Invest in what you know and if you can find mad value no one else can see, that's a buying opportunity.

Using your team as an example this time. One of the players I was most bullish about this offseason was Josh Walker. I really like him as a key defender. He wins his 1v1s and takes his intercept and contested marks. Knowing no club was willing to pay up for him, he's someone as with Jarryd Lyons and Aaron Hall the year prior who I would have offered picks for and made the most of the opportunity to acquire. Any club needing a starting quality key defender, Josh Walker can be an instant, low cost piece for.

Heard an interview with one of the recruiters on a podcast (pre draft) he predicted that most of the players attached to clubs already would fall lower than expected as the other clubs direct their limited resources to players they are able actually recruit. As they don't put the time into them they otherwise would, other players end up being preferred. He also noted the subconscious effect of knowing that you can't a player naturally devalues them. Makes sense to me.

Clubs knew exactly how good Green/Blakey are and would have their own established opinions on them. They're guys clubs would have been aware of and been forced to watch whether they liked it or not for years before they got drafted. It's like with Green, he's played U18 Champs the last two years. He has played plenty of NEAFL, he played NAB League this year. Scout have absolutely seen plenty of him whether they're intending to watch him or not, he's winning 1st possession at just about every stoppage, so you can't miss him or not realise what he has been doing.

 

[briztoon]

Hall when up and going would be one of the first 15 I'd choose if he was inserted onto Brisbane's list.

As I'm sure you've picked up, my views on player selection doesn't align with the very of every coach or every list management team, and I view that advantageously and would view that from a list construction perspective view that as opportunity.

Just as you'd seek value in the property market that others don't see, the same applies in list management. Invest in what you know and if you can find mad value no one else can see, that's a buying opportunity.

Using your team as an example this time. One of the players I was most bullish about this offseason was Josh Walker. I really like him as a key defender. He wins his 1v1s and takes his intercept and contested marks. Knowing no club was willing to pay up for him, he's someone as with Jarryd Lyons and Aaron Hall the year prior who I would have offered picks for and made the most of the opportunity to acquire. Any club needing a starting quality key defender, Josh Walker can be an instant, low cost piece for.

Mitch Robertson on his podcast discussed what Fagan wants from his wings, and Fagan has discussed it on SEN as well.

And it’s not a Hall type player.

It has to be a player with a strong aerobic base. A good turn of speed, but doesn’t have to be elite. A strong contested game, willing to put their body on the line, and work hard defensively. And most importantly, play team first footy.

As an example, Fagan has already talked about teaching Deven Robertson to play wing.

 

[Knightmare]

Mitch Robertson on his podcast discussed what Fagan wants from his wings, and Fagan has discussed it on SEN as well.

And it’s not a Hall type player.

It has to be a player with a strong aerobic base. A good turn of speed, but doesn’t have to be elite. A strong contested game, willing to put their body on the line, and work hard defensively. And most importantly, play team first footy.

As an example, Fagan has already talked about teaching Deven Robertson to play wing.

Deven not only finds/wins the footy in bunches but he also gets the ball moving, so I see him as compatible with playing outside. Hopefully he's not relegated to playing outside forever, but it's a good way to get him into the senior side right away, particularly with the ever increasing selection pressure being applied with Cam Ellis-Yolmen added and young developing midfielders who will apply further selection pressure through there.

 

[Thetrader15]

Mitch Robertson on his podcast discussed what Fagan wants from his wings, and Fagan has discussed it on SEN as well.

And it’s not a Hall type player.

It has to be a player with a strong aerobic base. A good turn of speed, but doesn’t have to be elite. A strong contested game, willing to put their body on the line, and work hard defensively. And most importantly, play team first footy.

As an example, Fagan has already talked about teaching Deven Robertson to play wing.

Bugger - I was thinking Rory Atkins might have been on offer to the Lions over the upcoming trade period

 

[Peel67skin]

Mitch Robertson on his podcast discussed what Fagan wants from his wings, and Fagan has discussed it on SEN as well.

And it’s not a Hall type player.

It has to be a player with a strong aerobic base. A good turn of speed, but doesn’t have to be elite. A strong contested game, willing to put their body on the line, and work hard defensively. And most importantly, play team first footy.

As an example, Fagan has already talked about teaching Deven Robertson to play wing.

Tom Joyce a winger or inside mid?

 

[briztoon]

Tom Joyce a winger or inside mid?

Inside mid more likely.

Just can’t shake small injuries atm.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Did it in another thread so what's one another?


Let's see all of the notable names here.

Eligible F/S:

Luke Edwards (Tyson, Adelaide.) (Also the brother of Jackson, Adelaide.)
Harrison Free (Tony, Richmond.)
Tom Grant (David, St Kilda.) (Not eligible for Melbourne.)
Mackenzie Hogg (Matthew, Carlton.) (Not eligible for Footscray.)
William Kilpatrick (Glenn, Geelong.) (Not eligible for Essendon.)
Ewan MacPherson (Stephen, Footscray.) (Also, the younger brother of Darcy, Gold Coast.)
Charlie McKay (Andrew, Carlton.) (Also the younger brother of Carlton's Abbie McKay.)
Riley Prestigiacomo (Simon, Collingwood.)
Taj Schofield (Jarrad.) (Eligible for Port Adelaide but not West Coast or Fremantle.)


Brothers:

Ollie Henry (Jack, Geelong.)
Finlay Macrae (Jackson, Footscray.)
Henry Walsh (Sam, Carlton.)
Sam Witherden (Alex, Brisbane.)

First Cousins:



Ineligible F/S:

Elijah Hollands (Ben, Richmond.)

Other relations:



Tom Silvagni's section.

Tom is the:

Son of Stephen Silvagni.
Brother of Jack and Ben Silvagni.
Grandson of Sergio Silvagni.
Distant cousin of Alex Silvagni.
Distant cousin of John Benetti.

All of Tom's relations listed played for Carlton but Alex also played for Fremantle.


Will Papley's section.

Will is the:

Brother of Tom Papley.
Grandson of Max Papley.
Grandson of Jeff Bray.
Cousin of Ben and Michael Ross.

Ben and Michael Ross played for teams (Kangaroos and Hawthorn and Essendon respectively) that didn't involve South Melbourne/Sydney.

Will Parker's section.

Will is the:

Cousin of Eastern Ranges teammate Connor Weightman.
Nephew of Dale Weightman. (Richmond.)
Nephew of Geoffrey Parker. (Essendon.)
Cousin of Leigh Colbert. (Geelong/Kangaroos.)​

 

[AjsGuns]

I think you’ll have to give him a few more years to judge. He’s still developing. Whether he gets to Dusty or danger levels we’ll see. But he’s a generational type talent.

Weird people don't rate Oliver, to put it into perspective his 2yrs younger than Cripps.
I think worst case he becomes a Lenny Hayes type (3-4 AA'S & BnF's, and considered a club legend) and best case a Scott Pendlebury (lots of years as a top 2-5 player, but never the standout best, remembered as a AFL legend). Daresay with a big preaeason his a top 5-10 midfielder in 2020 (only clearly behind Fyfe, Dusty, Danger, Bont, Cripps)