Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2011 Mock Draft

[Mad Fan of AFL]

Thanks for all those descriptions Knightmare. You are a well respected poster here.

 

[HereIam86]

The Lions pick up a QLD zone player from the Suns in trade week Dayne Zorko. If he was in the draft where do you see him going? Also do you think Lee Spurr will get pick up?

 

[Knightmare]

Where is Gibson Turner likely to fit in? Or did i miss him looking through your draft? Is he a zone selection for GWS?

Interesting prospect. Haven't seen allot of him.

From what i've seen very evasive and has that Krakouer like ability to create more time + space. Composed. Speed ok. Skill not bad.

Don't have him in my draft right now, but would have to be a chance in one of the drafts.

The Lions pick up a QLD zone player from the Suns in trade week Dayne Zorko. If he was in the draft where do you see him going? Also do you think Lee Spurr will get pick up?

Brisbane from all reports would have taken Zorko at pick 34.

Think Lee Spurr could receive an opportunity. Of the SA mature boys would have to be in the top few.

 

[tigs2010]

Interesting prospect. Haven't seen allot of him.

From what i've seen very evasive and has that Krakouer like ability to create more time + space. Composed. Speed ok. Skill not bad.

Don't have him in my draft right now, but would have to be a chance in one of the drafts.



Brisbane from all reports would have taken Zorko at pick 34.

Think Lee Spurr could receive an opportunity. Of the SA mature boys would have to be in the top few.

Chris has him as a NT zone selection but has played in the SANFL i think. Thought i heard he is counted as an SA prospect. Any idea what he qualfies as? Thanks heaps for your answer too.

 

[Chris25]

Chris has him as a NT zone selection but has played in the SANFL i think. Thought i heard he is counted as an SA prospect. Any idea what he qualfies as? Thanks heaps for your answer too.

Like a lot of players from the Northern Territory, Turner goes to school down here in Adelaide. Jordan Wilson is the same. My thinking is that if you're eligible to play for the NT, then you would be eligible as an NT zone selection.

 

[tigs2010]

Like a lot of players from the Northern Territory, Turner goes to school down here in Adelaide. Jordan Wilson is the same. My thinking is that if you're eligible to play for the NT, then you would be eligible as an NT zone selection.

Fair enough then. I can't remember where i heard Turner would be counted as an SA. Maybe i dreamt it hoping we could get him

 

[OnTheFool]

Why is Ben Darrou so low? I know he is at that awkward height of 190cm but I reckon he has a bucket load of upside. Good user, composed, second efforts, good tackler and fairly agile. It is no suprise he arguably has the best highlight package on the AFL website:
http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=120636

I reckon he has what it takes to be a decent AFL player. I liked his TAC cup grand final too

 

[Knightmare]

Why is Ben Darrou so low? I know he is at that awkward height of 190cm but I reckon he has a bucket load of upside. Good user, composed, second efforts, good tackler and fairly agile. It is no suprise he arguably has the best highlight package on the AFL website:
http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=120636

I reckon he has what it takes to be a decent AFL player. I liked his TAC cup grand final too

I like his game. TAC Cup grand final was good wasn't it. Feel he is very draftable.

Is probably a bit more physically developed than most for his size which might mean questionable upside. Maybe some question on position - as key defender possibly not tall enough. Probably doesn't have one weapon that makes him clearly stand out from others. So for these reasons more of a late/rookie pick.

 

[The Bomb]

Hi Knightmare, I seen Nic Haynes a few times and think he will be quiet a player, really holds his feet well in tackles from what I have seen, plays abit like Crameri I thought, maybe i have not seen enough of him could you shed a bit more light on him for me, i was thinking would be a great fit for pick 31.

 

[Lana]

How do you rate Elliot Yeo. Tested really well at the combine, decent disposal and works well under pressure. Would love to get him at Geelong, but we won't consider him as he is a similar player to Bews.

Speaking about Bews, In your Mock you have him taken at pick 66 when he is automaticly taken at our last pick, you then give us another palyer a 84

 

[Yoda_]

Hey mate, me again..

Few questions after looking over your draft... again

Would Lachie Whitfield go ahead of O'Meara/Crouch if he were available in the mini draft?

Great to see someone rating Cameron Valentine (put him at 40 in your power rankings ). Do you think he could play as a genuine leading full forward? or is he more that Jack Watts lead up, 3rd tall target? Really think he is very draftable having seen him late in the season.

Interesting to see you have put Fletcher Roberts in at 40, was this on the back of his 5 goal haul in the TAC Cup GF, or was his out put that good throughout the year? Could Drew Petrie be an apt comparison for Roberts? Seems to like a contested grab (averaged 1.3 contested marks a game in the TAC Cup according to his stats for 2011).

Any reason why you have put in Bradley Hill after his outstanding Combine/Screening results and not Eliot Yeo? Yeo had an outstanding year at Colts level averaging 23 possessions, 4 marks, nearly 1 goal a game. Breaks the game open by the sounds of things and can has a nice size about him that could see him play up forward early, then move into the midfield later.. just interesting to know why you have him slipping right through?

Just a couple of things also.. People keep saying this is a thin draft for KPP's but there are 34/84 players 'drafted' in this mock who are listed as 190cm + cm, I realise not all of them are KPP's), think people are underselling it a little bit.

IF Todd Elton goes outside the top 20, I will buy you a 6 - pack (Draughty's alright bud ? ) Seriously talented kid who is being under rated now, just stuck between a rock and a hard place.. Could he play as an Adam Goodes type player? Running tall midfielder?

Any delisted players you are considering in this draft (apart from Ben Ross already mentioned)?


And one final thing, would love for this draft to pan out for the Bombers. Ross at 19, Newman at 31, Newnes at 59 and then probably the Crameri upgrade would be ideal (Wouldnt mind Jason Williams though, from some reports, a very talented line breaker).

Any ways buddy, really appreciate the effort you and some of the other guys put into these Mock drafts, countless hours watching and discecting football to give us mere amateurs a deeper insight into the hundreds of hopefulls is completely undervalued.

Thanks again bud

 

[Knightmare]

Hi Knightmare, I seen Nic Haynes a few times and think he will be quiet a player, really holds his feet well in tackles from what I have seen, plays abit like Crameri I thought, maybe i have not seen enough of him could you shed a bit more light on him for me, i was thinking would be a great fit for pick 31.

Crameri is an interesting comparison. Certainly not nearly as strong. But can probably play a similar role.

Has an interesting game Haynes. Those who know their stuff rate him very highly.

Bit of a unique player. Tall wingman who can go forward. I think of him as more of a Sam Gilbert. Has reasonable flexibility in his game. Moves well and has a good running game for someone of his size. Overhead very strong mark.

Don't expect he will be available at 31. Will probably go 1st round and could easily go inside the top 20.

How do you rate Elliot Yeo. Tested really well at the combine, decent disposal and works well under pressure. Would love to get him at Geelong, but we won't consider him as he is a similar player to Bews.

Speaking about Bews, In your Mock you have him taken at pick 66 when he is automaticly taken at our last pick, you then give us another palyer a 84

I'm not a huge fan of Yeo, but there are plenty of others who rate which makes me think he could easily get drafted. Personally not a fan of what i've seen of his ball use under pressure, really lacked composure at times throughout the u18 champs. But athletically very good and skills solid.
Currently I have him going in the first few rookies. Might be an option for Geelong to add that little bit more pace.

You are right that Bews will be your final pick. Same with Buckley at Carlton. Main reason I have them going 3rd round is that when all delistings are confirmed you will probably only take the 3 through the draft anyway and I'll just have to move those late selections into my rookie draft.

Hey mate, me again..

Few questions after looking over your draft... again

Would Lachie Whitfield go ahead of O'Meara/Crouch if he were available in the mini draft?

Great to see someone rating Cameron Valentine (put him at 40 in your power rankings ). Do you think he could play as a genuine leading full forward? or is he more that Jack Watts lead up, 3rd tall target? Really think he is very draftable having seen him late in the season.

Interesting to see you have put Fletcher Roberts in at 40, was this on the back of his 5 goal haul in the TAC Cup GF, or was his out put that good throughout the year? Could Drew Petrie be an apt comparison for Roberts? Seems to like a contested grab (averaged 1.3 contested marks a game in the TAC Cup according to his stats for 2011).

Any reason why you have put in Bradley Hill after his outstanding Combine/Screening results and not Eliot Yeo? Yeo had an outstanding year at Colts level averaging 23 possessions, 4 marks, nearly 1 goal a game. Breaks the game open by the sounds of things and can has a nice size about him that could see him play up forward early, then move into the midfield later.. just interesting to know why you have him slipping right through?

Just a couple of things also.. People keep saying this is a thin draft for KPP's but there are 34/84 players 'drafted' in this mock who are listed as 190cm + cm, I realise not all of them are KPP's), think people are underselling it a little bit.

IF Todd Elton goes outside the top 20, I will buy you a 6 - pack (Draughty's alright bud ? ) Seriously talented kid who is being under rated now, just stuck between a rock and a hard place.. Could he play as an Adam Goodes type player? Running tall midfielder?

Any delisted players you are considering in this draft (apart from Ben Ross already mentioned)?


And one final thing, would love for this draft to pan out for the Bombers. Ross at 19, Newman at 31, Newnes at 59 and then probably the Crameri upgrade would be ideal (Wouldnt mind Jason Williams though, from some reports, a very talented line breaker).

Any ways buddy, really appreciate the effort you and some of the other guys put into these Mock drafts, countless hours watching and discecting football to give us mere amateurs a deeper insight into the hundreds of hopefulls is completely undervalued.

Thanks again bud

Whitfield v O'Meara would be the question of 2012 if not for the minidraft. Both outstanding young talents and both have very different games. Rate both VERY highly and would have them going 1+2 in most years. Would take both 1+2 over the likes of Coniglio/Wingard/Patton this year myself.

Whitfield is probably the better player now, so he might go no.1. But ask recruiters and you'll get fair variation between preference between the two.

Which would I take if given the choice? Possibly O'Meara, like him on upside. But Whitfield is a more guaranteed star and will probably be the better player more immediately.

Valentine I consider as possibly a Jeremy Howe/Russell Robinson type. Has that great leap and strong mark overhead. Collingwood probably need more of that type, just looking at the way Geelong took all those marks in their back 50, there could be a role for him. Is one I think has gone under the radar a little, but do rate as a solid prospect and potential role player at the next level.

F.Roberts was solid throughout the year and would probably have had him as a late draft option anyway, but I do absolutely rate players on big games and thanks to that grand final effort see him as a likely 2nd/3rd rounder.

Yeo as mentioned above don't really rate on decision making. But others might have seen other games where he might have looked better in this area. Certainly a high level athlete and should go late/rookie.
Hill could go rookie, but think he could be a chance as a later draft option.
Some will have them flipped around the other way, but like Hill for development reasons. Looking at the way his brother physically developed later and really came onto the scene, I think Brad can have that similar later development. This isn't to say he is even remotely similar, is a completely different player and is more endurance than pace, but they have similar enough bodies to lead me to believe the development is still to come.

There are enough KPPs. Just not really the quality in the top end. Always been an advocate of high draft KPPs. Outside of Patton there really aren't those true 1st round quality KPPs. But certainly the depth is ok, and if looking at a KPP from around 20 or so you could probably add a solid KPP prospect.

Elton is a sensational talent. Talent is absolutely there. Can do it all. But just hasn't been able to really produce the way you would want. Could go top 10. Could go at 30. Don't be surprised if he drops.
Could become anything and could become a high level KPP, or could just not develop into anything significant.
Through the midfield is interesting. Certainly moves well. Don't mind him as a potential key defender - don't see him as a dominant/consistant enough KPF and in the ruck while mobile I tend to favour taller rucks and it's not a great avenue in terms of guaranteeing a career at the next level (ala James Sellar).

Ben Ross on form I really rated at VFL level. Saw a number of his games and was consistantly very impressed. Daniel Currie - Syd delisted ruckman might be worth a shot. Hasn't received any games but would even consider at Collingwood with one of those late picks. Setanta O'Hailpin might get a shot for a club looking for a ready to go KPP. Also Gavin Urquhart has also been talked about as one clubs might consider.

 

[Chris25]

Some big changes in this update. Nic Murphy rocketed in for his first appearance, and Newman jumped about 40 spots. Can't argue with that.

Still a few players I don't agree with - Lockyer, Kersten, Schade, Boseley (and Murdoch who isn't selected). I assume the first two have dropped due to their size, but I don't see that of being any issue. Kersten is a very good forward, not undersized in my opinion and his ceiling is as high as any other forward. Boseley and Schade are probably the best two pure defenders on offer too.

I also think you might be overstating the skills of Schloithe. I tend to think of him as an unrefined Mitch Robinson, and Robinson isn't exactly the most refined player going around.

I'm not a huge fan of Yeo, but there are plenty of others who rate which makes me think he could easily get drafted. Personally not a fan of what i've seen of his ball use under pressure, really lacked composure at times throughout the u18 champs. But athletically very good and skills solid.
Currently I have him going in the first few rookies. Might be an option for Geelong to add that little bit more pace.

On that topic, Yeo is a much better prospect than Schloithe for me. One is likely to be limited to playing as a defensive forward, the other is a line breaking midfielder. I've never had any issues with Yeo's ball use either, and in traffic he looks good to me - always attacking, looking to break free.

There are enough KPPs. Just not really the quality in the top end. Always been an advocate of high draft KPPs. Outside of Patton there really aren't those true 1st round quality KPPs. But certainly the depth is ok, and if looking at a KPP from around 20 or so you could probably add a solid KPP prospect.

As for KPPs, I've talked to a few other posters on the Fremantle board and we've generally come to the same conclusion - if you don't get a KPP in the top 30-40 then don't bother until the rookie draft. The difference in quality will be minimal at most.

Outside of the top 15-20 or so, Jai Sheehan and Dylan Orval are probably the only two I would really look at until the rookie draft.

A good update though. Don't want it too similar to my own.

 

[Knightmare]

Some big changes in this update. Nic Murphy rocketed in for his first appearance, and Newman jumped about 40 spots. Can't argue with that.

Still a few players I don't agree with - Lockyer, Kersten, Schade, Boseley (and Murdoch who isn't selected). I assume the first two have dropped due to their size, but I don't see that of being any issue. Kersten is a very good forward, not undersized in my opinion and his ceiling is as high as any other forward. Boseley and Schade are probably the best two pure defenders on offer too.

I also think you might be overstating the skills of Schloithe. I tend to think of him as an unrefined Mitch Robinson, and Robinson isn't exactly the most refined player going around.



On that topic, Yeo is a much better prospect than Schloithe for me. One is likely to be limited to playing as a defensive forward, the other is a line breaking midfielder. I've never had any issues with Yeo's ball use either, and in traffic he looks good to me - always attacking, looking to break free.



As for KPPs, I've talked to a few other posters on the Fremantle board and we've generally come to the same conclusion - if you don't get a KPP in the top 30-40 then don't bother until the rookie draft. The difference in quality will be minimal at most.

Outside of the top 15-20 or so, Jai Sheehan and Dylan Orval are probably the only two I would really look at until the rookie draft.

A good update though. Don't want it too similar to my own.

I'm still fairly open to sticking a couple of different players into my draft later on but I don't think our drafts will ever really be too similar and I don't think any other "good draft" will really resemble either of ours either. After the first probably 35-40 prospects it's really open to interpretation.

The main variations I have are: Yeo I don't rate as a 2nd rounder. 3rd rounder onward in my books. AhChee I see as more of a rookie prospect. Boseley I don't rate inside the top 20. More of a 2nd rounder. Haynes will probably go 1st round. 3rd round probably a little low for Grigg, 1st-2nd rounder in my books. Sheridan probably more of a late 1st-2nd rounder. Ross I rate a 1st rounder, no way I would have him going 3rd round. Jackson Coleman more of a rookie. All of Jimmy Webster, Zyrus Manson and Josh Tynan would take higher.

Newman I have liked for a while. Have been toying with moving him up the order and had another look at his footage and I absolutely agree with your recent comments that he is underrated, he is a worthy 2nd round prospect. Is a late year b-day and has the talent.

Lockyer + Kersten I really couldn't find an appropriate position for. Kersten I can see going high, maybe even GWS bite early, but he could easily slide. I do agree that his production has been impressive throughout the year, but where to put him? Lockyer I see as probably a solid 2nd rounder but again couldn't find a club who are screaming out for an undersized KPP.

Murdoch I currently have going early rookie draft, but he is one I could easily see going late 2nd-3rd round and am toying with throwing him into my draft. Probably will be on my next update.

Schloithe could easily slip into the rookie draft. But he is one I see differently. I agree that he doesn't have that opposite boot which is the limitation there but ball use fine and has some hurt factor.
Would take him over Yeo. I really like him as a goalkicking/lively forward. Every game i've seen him forward has just really stood out. But different players, no comparison necessary really.

Sheehan + Orval are two who could easily go in the main draft and I wouldn't disagree with you saying either could go in the main draft. Had Sheehan in early but probably like a few slightly higher. KPPs just too even this year.

 

[krisholio14]

I like his game. TAC Cup grand final was good wasn't it. Feel he is very draftable.

Is probably a bit more physically developed than most for his size which might mean questionable upside. Maybe some question on position - as key defender possibly not tall enough. Probably doesn't have one weapon that makes him clearly stand out from others. So for these reasons more of a late/rookie pick.

His hardness at the pill stands him out for me.

 

[Knightmare]

His hardness at the pill stands him out for me.

The big thing I like is his work off the ball. But I don't disagree.

 

[krisholio14]

The big thing I like is his work off the ball. But I don't disagree.

Agreed. I mentioned on the Geelong board that I like how he'll apply a hard tackle or bump, then go on and get into a position to become an attacking option.

 

[mpal6]

Latest update may need a tweak from a Lions perspective.
8 Brisbane - Matthew Buntine (VIC – Def/Mid)
12 Brisbane - Elliot Kavanagh (VIC - Mid)
30 Brisbane - Mitchell Grigg (SA - Mid)

we could be looking at a KPP on one of these picks - atleast by pick 30.

 

[Chris25]

The main variations I have are: Yeo I don't rate as a 2nd rounder. 3rd rounder onward in my books. AhChee I see as more of a rookie prospect. Boseley I don't rate inside the top 20. More of a 2nd rounder. Haynes will probably go 1st round. 3rd round probably a little low for Grigg, 1st-2nd rounder in my books. Sheridan probably more of a late 1st-2nd rounder. Ross I rate a 1st rounder, no way I would have him going 3rd round. Jackson Coleman more of a rookie. All of Jimmy Webster, Zyrus Manson and Josh Tynan would take higher.

Ah Chee could go anywhere, but I have him high because he is more talented than most of the players in the draft. Especially those after the second round. Been lots of talk about teams reaching for talent, and that is the case here.

Boseley is the best defender in the draft, so I wouldn't let him drop past the first round. While Coleman has quite a bit going for him. Whether he is older or bigger than others is irrelevant really as he hasn't always been 100% focused on football, and he performed pretty well this year anyway. Better prospect than Roberts.

I rate others higher than Haynes, although I know there was an article recently that said he would go high. Quite a few similar players going around. Sheridan isn't the greatest kick going around, and I'd take Merrett ahead of him because of that too.

I'm happy with where I have Grigg now. You really don't get the whole picture of his game from videos. It's his work off the ball that sees him drop for me. Also think his kicking is a bit overrated.

Manson would be higher in mine, if I focused on how many picks each team would have. Would probably have West Coast or Fremantle picking him earlier in that case. Webster maybe, but could easily drop. As for Tynan, it got late in my draft so I wanted to push some names that weren't getting as much attention. Although I think he could get passed over for some players with greater potential.

And well, I'm not as high on Ross. I'd take the likes of Duffy, Williams, Wilson and Murdoch ahead of him - better talents. But I know I won't be able to sway you on this one.

 

[krisholio14]

I'm happy with where I have Grigg now. You really don't get the whole picture of his game from videos. It's his work off the ball that sees him drop for me. Also think his kicking is a bit overrated.

True story -

Talking to some old timers at Norwood a couple of months back about a few of the young prospects at the club. These blokes have been standing on the terraces at SANFL games for decades so they'd have a fair idea what makes a player.

I was at The Parade for a Friday night game, and noticed Grigg was playing twos, while Luke Brown, Tom Langford and Cam Shenton (ok know he's a bit older, but generating a bit of talk) were in the seniors that night. When asked why Grigg wasn't in there with them, the old blokes replied 'He's not good enough'.

 

[tigs2010]

Latest update may need a tweak from a Lions perspective.
8 Brisbane - Matthew Buntine (VIC – Def/Mid)
12 Brisbane - Elliot Kavanagh (VIC - Mid)
30 Brisbane - Mitchell Grigg (SA - Mid)

we could be looking at a KPP on one of these picks - atleast by pick 30.

That maybe the case. But u guys slaughter this draft. Your midfield would be complete.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Do you reckon Richmond would take Nelson with pick 26 if he is still available Knightmare??

 

[Knightmare]

Latest update may need a tweak from a Lions perspective.
8 Brisbane - Matthew Buntine (VIC – Def/Mid)
12 Brisbane - Elliot Kavanagh (VIC - Mid)
30 Brisbane - Mitchell Grigg (SA - Mid)

we could be looking at a KPP on one of these picks - atleast by pick 30.

A few options worth consideration at 30, but at 8/12 KPPs are a reach.
Value early is in the mids.
I do agree with you that KPPs are still a need even with lisle. But when quality is there early, hard to pass it by.

Do you reckon Richmond would take Nelson with pick 26 if he is still available Knightmare??

One worth consideration at 26 if still available. Footskills there. Can play outside/inside. Has a solid game.

 

[whatboutbob]

That maybe the case. But u guys slaughter this draft. Your midfield would be complete.

I drooled when I saw it, but when talls generally take a couple of years longer to develop than mids then a 'complete midfield' isn't much help for the mid to long term (aka the lions' "window") when our KPPs under 27yo next season are:

1 ruck (Leuie)
3 CHB/CHF (Lisle/Retzlaff/McKeever)
1 FF (Cornelius)

 

[Chris25]

True story -

Talking to some old timers at Norwood a couple of months back about a few of the young prospects at the club. These blokes have been standing on the terraces at SANFL games for decades so they'd have a fair idea what makes a player.

I was at The Parade for a Friday night game, and noticed Grigg was playing twos, while Luke Brown, Tom Langford and Cam Shenton (ok know he's a bit older, but generating a bit of talk) were in the seniors that night. When asked why Grigg wasn't in there with them, the old blokes replied 'He's not good enough'.

Yep. I haven't been talking to any of the old Norwood folks myself but it seems to be a common theme of sorts. He hasn't been a fixture in the seniors for a reason.