Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2014 Phantom Draft

[Knightmare]

KM, Tom Wilkinson reading his bio sounds like he's just the player to address Adelaide's "need for more speed" which we surprisingly, at least to me, we failed to address in the National draft. Is he a serious rookie option in your opinion??

Wilkinson is someone I feel will be in the mix as a rookie selection. He is quick and can break away but he is more an endurance specialist if anything who has mostly played off a forward flank and hardly seems to get tired out there just running guys off their feet.
He isn't flashy or a damaging user of the footy and at times his footskills can lack some consistency which is for me anyway why I haven't been strong on him as say a national draft selection but athletically he is excellent and he can find the footy so as a rookie he is someone I'd say a club likely picks.

 

[paul scholes]

Who did you envisage the Dogs taking knightmare?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

KM, who is your pick of Hammelman, Cripps, and Keitel as a forward?

 

[Pykie]

Inconsistent, poor kick, doesn't run hard enough, average on the lead. I've compared him many times with forwards the level of Levi Casboult and Ben Brown. Serviceable at best. And there's a reason why Ryan Willits name popped up a bit as a comparison too. He resembles a ruckman resting forward at times.

I was, and still am, a fan. But when you look past the whole 'he is so big and strong' thing then it's easy to see why he wasn't regarded the same in the real world as he was on bigfooty.

"Serviceable at best" is a hilarious assessment for Casboult and Brown.

Casboult had a very promising year and Brown just won a final off of his own boot.

If these two are serviceable at best, I'd love to see your personal assessments of Taberner, Apeness and Clarke.

You must be absolutely scathing of Fremantles draft if that's your opinion, because most people would have both Brown and Casboult ahead of any developing tall on Fremantles list, if players below "serviceable at best" standard are your up and comers, a draft chocker block of midfielders probably wasn't the best result....

 

[Chris25]

That took far too long. I expected more of North fans.

 

[MightyDons4]

"Serviceable at best" is a hilarious assessment for Casboult and Brown.

Casboult had a very promising year and Brown just won a final off of his own boot.

If these two are serviceable at best, I'd love to see your personal assessments of Taberner, Apeness and Clarke.

You must be absolutely scathing of Fremantles draft if that's your opinion, because most people would have both Brown and Casboult ahead of any developing tall on Fremantles list, if players below "serviceable at best" standard are your up and comers, a draft chocker block of midfielders probably wasn't the best result....

He was playing on a bloke 9cm shorter, 13kg lighter and slower than him so what do you expect? Did excellently to finish his set shots but was basically unmanned.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Rumour: Burbury to the tigers.
Would be a handy pick up IMO.
I like our stratergy of using the rookie list of drafting guys ready to go in case we get injurys

 

[Pykie]

He was playing on a bloke 9cm shorter, 13kg lighter and slower than him so what do you expect? Did excellently to finish his set shots but was basically unmanned.

He kicked 18 goals in 11 games, with 25% of his games coming in finals. He's a bit better than serviceable as best.

As a 200cm third tall, it's likely he's going to get a lot of those miss matches in the next few years.

 

[Glitch]

Inconsistent, poor kick, doesn't run hard enough, average on the lead. I've compared him many times with forwards the level of Levi Casboult and Ben Brown. Serviceable at best. And there's a reason why Ryan Willits name popped up a bit as a comparison too. He resembles a ruckman resting forward at times.

I was, and still am, a fan. But when you look past the whole 'he is so big and strong' thing then it's easy to see why he wasn't regarded the same in the real world as he was on bigfooty.

To be good, you need hard work - and - the ability to be good. I suspect with Reece that he has the ability and tools to be good if he does the hard work. Being in a good system will definatley help him on his journey and we really will not know until probably 2016-2018 if he is going to be a good player or not.

Two players come to mind - both play tall positions - to keep it in perspective.
Alex Rance is now one of the best defenders in the game but after 3 years I (and many others) thought he was good for the chop. He has worked hard and it is paying off big time. Good on him!
Ben Griffiths is making strides, similarly to rance he would have been facing the Chop had he not improved last year. He is also equally big, powerful etc. It seems to just take more time with the bigger guys to get confidence in their bodies to do what big guys need to do - be imposing.

 

[Kramer1]

If you look through my power rankings over the years and compare it to Carlton's actual draft selections you'll find consistently that the guys Carlton draft are rated low on my draft boards relative to the selection used to acquire them and it's the same story this year.

In addition to my power rankings which I devise prior to every draft not agreeing with Carlton's selections more often than not the outcome over the years for Carlton on draft day has proven to be poor to the extent that an argument could be made that Carlton have the league's worst talent identification or if not then close to.

Where Carlton relatively go better is in identifying opposition talent which recently has proven to achieve relatively better results.

On this years guys. Boekhorst I definitely wouldn't have taken at 19 and I saw him more as a mid-late draft selection. That was the one selection in the first round I think for most people would have looked at with shock and thought "that's early!" In saying that Boekhorst has some pace and some role playing potential which isn't ideal at 19 but could be enough for him to make the grade which still would be a fine outcome at 19.
Viojo-Rainbow can really deliver some penetrating, low, hard kicks but can at times lack some consistency and probably doesn't have enough other tricks for me and while taken roughly in the range he was expected to go I wouldn't have taken him in the national draft myself.
Clem Smith at 60 I like that Carlton have taken a chance. If he plays down back he'll struggle at the next level but you have to like the way he goes about it on the field and perhaps as a pressure forward has a chance to make it if he makes some adjustments to his game.
Then Jayden Foster at 63 while well performed in the TAC Cup isn't someone I'm optimistic about at AFL level because with those key forwards you really want guys who have superior talent by position and Foster looks more like a very good state leaguer rather than someone who can hold down that post at AFL level more than as a depth guy. Again I'd be looking at him more as a rookie rather than a national draft pick given this projection.

Whether everything goes this way remains to be seen. But that's my best guess at this point.
.

Don't think there could be any argument in the Hughes era. With Rogers in the driving seat it would be fair to reserve judgement. As much as can be read into recent drafts Menzel and Cripps project as good choices, perhaps very good, and there has been some success in later rounds and rookie draft.

We'll know more about Rogers in a year or two. Mick has given him no shortage of list spots to fill.

 

[Knightmare]

Who did you envisage the Dogs taking knightmare?

Given the outside theme I don't see why that necessarily needs to end with the national draft.

Josh Glenn (classy, versatile mature ager), Will Fordham (tall silky mid with some pace), Nic Newman (mature age back flanker who is an excellent rebounder) all would make sense.

Brett Eddy as a mature age key forward would make sense and would be a perfect compliment for Thomas Boyd as a more mobile key forward with some tricks in his own right.

Garrett McDonagh if looking for a pure kicking back flanker as a rookie could be a consideration.

Maybe the Dogs like Tyler Keitel or Jesse Watchman as some young KPPs.

They could be among the names considered.

KM, who is your pick of Hammelman, Cripps, and Keitel as a forward?

Of those Hammelmann is more the forward and a special leading forward with nice height and athleticism. A project but probably the better shot if a key forward is what you're after.

Cripps while a sort of key forward isn't a volume goalkicker and is more someone who will accumulate up the ground. But would be the better more mobile type of that group.

Then Keitel is shorter and probably better suited as a key defender, although at times capable of kicking the odd bag up forward, he just more concretely in my mind projects as more a state league forward if that is where he was to be developed.

 

[Knightmare]

Rumour: Burbury to the tigers.
Would be a handy pick up IMO.
I like our stratergy of using the rookie list of drafting guys ready to go in case we get injurys

There is talk about a few clubs being into Burbury so there may be some competition there. Serviceable depth forward I would have thought but from all reports a ripping young lad who puts the work into his game so if a club is convinced of his talent or more specifically his ability to play a fairly limited role then he could be a decent enough choice.

 

[Punchy Demons]

Really, so you're saying he was lying in every interview he's done in the last 6 months?

He didn't say "I'm letting my manager take care of it" he's continually said "I'm staying" and couldn't be more adamant.

When you make a statement like that back it up, are you his dad?

I'm not saying it's true or untrue what he has publicly said but surely you're not that naive to think a player wouldn't lie to the media?

Remember what Tom Scully was saying?

 

[Andre the Giant]

I'm not saying it's true or untrue what he has publicly said but surely you're not that naive to think a player wouldn't lie to the media?

Remember what Tom Scully was saying?

I'll msg you private mate...getting off track re this thread

 

[Punchy Demons]

Hey KM, I've listed a few guys below that I think we should be looking at in the RD. Who do you think is the best fit for us & secondly who is most likely to make it as an genuine AFL player?

Peter Bampton, 182cm, 83kg - inside mid, avg 19 possessions @ 83.5% eff in 9 SANFL games.

Daniel Caprion, 189cm, 83kg - def, avg 12 poss @ 67 % eff in 7 TAC games

Jack Cripps, 196cm, 86kg - fwd, avg 18 poss @ 71% eff in 9 WAFL colts games

Billy Evans, 190cm, 87kg - inside mid, avg 23 poss @ 67% eff in 12 TAC games

Will Fordham, 189cm, 80kg - def, avg 20 poss @ 67% eff in 20 TAC games

Josh Glenn, 180cm, 78kg - def, avg 20 poss @ 68% eff in 16 SANFL games

Taylor Grace, 185cm, 80kg - utility, avg 30 poss @ 73% eff in 15 TAC games

Tyler Keitel, 194cm, 88kg - KPP, avg 14.5 poss @ 62% eff in 15 WAFL colts games

Elliot Le Grice, 194cm, 90kg - def, avg 11 poss @ 72% eff in 16 VFL games

Michael Manteit, 187cm, 85kg - def, avg 20 poss @ 70% eff in 18 TAC games

Nick Newman, 188cm, 80kg - def, avg 24 poss @ 70.5% eff in 18 VFL games

Brenton Payne, 193cm, 80kg - fwd, avg 13 poss @ 70% eff in 13 TAC games

Tyler Roos, 185cm, 75kg - mid, avg 23 poss @ 63% eff in 18 TAC games

Mitch White, 189cm, 85kg - utility, avg 19 poss @ 66% eff in 16 TAC games

Thanks in advance

 

[captain cotch 9]

I could see us tacking Newman.
Cousin of Chris.

 

[MyLittleSloaney]

I could see us tacking Newman.
Cousin of Chris.

Weren't you going to take Weller over Ellis though?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM, I've listed a few guys below that I think we should be looking at in the RD. Who do you think is the best fit for us & secondly who is most likely to make it as an genuine AFL player?

Peter Bampton, 182cm, 83kg - inside mid, avg 19 possessions @ 83.5% eff in 9 SANFL games.

Daniel Caprion, 189cm, 83kg - def, avg 12 poss @ 67 % eff in 7 TAC games

Jack Cripps, 196cm, 86kg - fwd, avg 18 poss @ 71% eff in 9 WAFL colts games

Billy Evans, 190cm, 87kg - inside mid, avg 23 poss @ 67% eff in 12 TAC games

Will Fordham, 189cm, 80kg - def, avg 20 poss @ 67% eff in 20 TAC games

Josh Glenn, 180cm, 78kg - def, avg 20 poss @ 68% eff in 16 SANFL games

Taylor Grace, 185cm, 80kg - utility, avg 30 poss @ 73% eff in 15 TAC games

Tyler Keitel, 194cm, 88kg - KPP, avg 14.5 poss @ 62% eff in 15 WAFL colts games

Elliot Le Grice, 194cm, 90kg - def, avg 11 poss @ 72% eff in 16 VFL games

Michael Manteit, 187cm, 85kg - def, avg 20 poss @ 70% eff in 18 TAC games

Nick Newman, 188cm, 80kg - def, avg 24 poss @ 70.5% eff in 18 VFL games

Brenton Payne, 193cm, 80kg - fwd, avg 13 poss @ 70% eff in 13 TAC games

Tyler Roos, 185cm, 75kg - mid, avg 23 poss @ 63% eff in 18 TAC games

Mitch White, 189cm, 85kg - utility, avg 19 poss @ 66% eff in 16 TAC games

Thanks in advance

Some class and pace is needed now that the midfield has been bulked up.

Fordham, Glenn and N.Newman could be some list fits and some guys who can make the grade.
Fordham as a taller outside mid with some class and pace. Glenn as a classy multi-positional player. Then Newman is a ready to go back flanker who can provide some rebound. All have chances to make it.

 

[fronkalicious]

Love to see Shannon Taylor get picked up. Kid can play

 

[Punchy Demons]

Some class and pace is needed now that the midfield has been bulked up.

Fordham, Glenn and N.Newman could be some list fits and some guys who can make the grade.
Fordham as a taller outside mid with some class and pace. Glenn as a classy multi-positional player. Then Newman is a ready to go back flanker who can provide some rebound. All have chances to make it.

Thanks KM.

I agree that we need some outside pace & someone who can actually use the ball effectively. If that isn't available though we should just take the best player, even if that means we have more of them eg. Bampton.
As a MFC fan, I know only to well that high end picks don't always progress like they are expected (well at least in the past when they've pulled on the red & blue they haven't)

How does Manteit play the game & his strengths/weaknesses?

 

[Knightmare]

Love to see Shannon Taylor get picked up. Kid can play

Taylor as a forward averaged less than a goal a game and from his ten games only the one where he kicked multiple goals.

Not out of the question he gets selected but personally I expect more from small forwards at any level.

Ahmed Saad would be a less bad option.

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks KM.

I agree that we need some outside pace & someone who can actually use the ball effectively. If that isn't available though we should just take the best player, even if that means we have more of them eg. Bampton.
As a MFC fan, I know only to well that high end picks don't always progress like they are expected (well at least in the past when they've pulled on the red & blue they haven't)

How does Manteit play the game & his strengths/weaknesses?

Bampton is a safe bet and he's a ready to go player. Whoever takes him as a rookie I imagine will be happy to get him.

Manteit is a mostly back flanker. He is an efficient ball user from the back half. Good endurance athlete. They are the primary to strengths to his game. He is not super damaging but uses it reliably by foot. Good but not great intercept mark. Defensively good enough without being a specialist stopper.

 

[captainrich]

Bampton is a safe bet and he's a ready to go player. Whoever takes him as a rookie I imagine will be happy to get him.

Manteit is a mostly back flanker. He is an efficient ball user from the back half. Good endurance athlete. They are the primary to strengths to his game. He is not super damaging but uses it reliably by foot. Good but not great intercept mark. Defensively good enough without being a specialist stopper.

Hey KM can i just ask what would be one of the reasons bampton wasnt taken in the ND? was it endurance? lack of speed? or disposal skills? would he be similar to some undrafted inside ball winners like pogniriac from the past??

thanks

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM can i just ask what would be one of the reasons bampton wasnt taken in the ND? was it endurance? lack of speed? or disposal skills? would he be similar to some undrafted inside ball winners like pogniriac from the past??

thanks

Lack of exposure in the sense that no u18 champs and no second half to the season. Some people seem to be underselling his footskills or not rating his footskills as highly as I feel they perhaps should and others saying not enough tricks thinking he is a vanilla midfielder which I wouldn't agree with either as someone who has the hardness and contested side to his game as well as excellent endurance and a good skillset.

 

[Punchy Demons]

Bampton is a safe bet and he's a ready to go player. Whoever takes him as a rookie I imagine will be happy to get him.

Manteit is a mostly back flanker. He is an efficient ball user from the back half. Good endurance athlete. They are the primary to strengths to his game. He is not super damaging but uses it reliably by foot. Good but not great intercept mark. Defensively good enough without being a specialist stopper.

Manteit sounds like a pretty decent rookie option from what you've described. Nice height & weight too

Also, do you know if Brisbane have declared or had to declare before now whether they are committed to Hammelmann?