Draft Expert Knightmare's 2021 Draft Almanac

[chopflop]

I might have to save my review of Horne-Francis' game for my weekly wrap on ESPN. Maintain the suspense.

I'll give JHF what I feel will be appropriate kudos. Will be interesting to see if the JHF fan club will agree.

I was watching. I'll be providing my thoughts on how Horne-Francis has gone as always in a good amount of depth.

I would imagine any reasonable analyst would agree with the observations I'll share, with some of the hyperbole being shared on this thread, perhaps not.

But I'll reserve responses on JHF's game for until my weekly wrap has been released on ESPN so as to keep the discussion here going smoothly so that we don't have more pages getting bogged down in more of the same on JHF.

Be sure to summarise in your thread. I don't read ESPN

 

[Hazardinho]

I wasn’t looking who said it, I was scrolling and saw Mutineer mention it. Then there was questions over his athleticism. There shouldn’t be, he would beat a lot of mids for athleticism. He’s literally a Darcy Moore/Ben McKay type who will develop into that type of role, particularly once he adds more strength to his frame.

I mentioned he's athleticism isn't on Lever's level but ppl took it as i'm suggesting i don't think he has no athleticism, posting his stats of vertical leap from a running and stand still position to be of an elite level despite me acknowledging his timing of the leap is really good trait to have in his position. I simply questioned his athleticism from a sprinting, acceleration point of view as i haven't seen it from him as he has mainly played a spare defender/ third intercept and never really been left isolated 1 v 1 and i acknowledge i haven't seen lots of footage on him, also marking defender that hasn't been held accountable yet, either through lack of games his played, not being a deep forwards draft for him to contend against and prove he is the player people are making him out to be.

 

[Hazardinho]

Melt.

how am I a melt when what I've said has been misinterpreted? and i try and justify what i meant it as.

 

[Wild Bill]

how am I a melt when what I've said has been misinterpreted? and i try and justify what i meant it as.

By screaming at us?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Vince and Cross I felt were sensible additions in that first offseason as Roos was coming in to take over as coach. Salem was drafted. Hunt and Harmes were both drafted that same offseason. How does their development compare to those drafted in the years drafted before them?

Petracca and Brayshaw were drafted that next offseason. Neal-Bullen also came in. Garlett was secured for a late pick and was a successful list addition. He had some good years and was a piece.

The next offseason, Oliver was added.

That's a good deal of Melbourne's most important ingredients even if you don't agree with the leadership and culture development narrative.

Before Roos, Melbourne would take early picks and end up with Watts/Scully/Trengove/Toumpas and have those career outcomes and lack of development. Until Roos, there wasn't an environment where those kinds of talents could develop. Roos was an essential part of that process to developing the leaders in Jones/Viney/Gawn to enable those guys drafted while Roos was there to then develop meaningfully under Roos and into stars in more recent seasons.

Roos obviously isn't responsible for Melbourne's jump this year specific. He's no longer at the club. And all the staff you mention were huge. In my video which is what's being references, I mention the coaching staff inclusive of assistant coaches as having been one of those most influential components to Melbourne's rise.

Nitpicking a bit but didn't Roos trade pick 2 (Josh Kelly) for Dom Tyson? That is a massive blunder.

 

[Hazardinho]

I don't know why you've chosen this particular hill to die on because he'll likely be gone before the Bombers pick.

that's fine he's not the biggest priority our list needs, would take him if he got through but not at pick 5 if i'm a club with that pick.

 

[Hazardinho]

By screaming at us?

You don't understand, i've posted messages before these guys were quoting what i originally said abt the kelly comparison in so much detail, where i spent time typing up it, just so for a few people to consistently say i think he's a jake kelly level talent. I wanted to make it abundantly clear in capital letters so that my message is clear and doesn't continue becoming a fact that i said Gibcus is a kelly level player, when i explained how he's role in the afl will be sort of like a kelly player. I'm sorry if it looks like i'm being a mug or whatever but i know I've been misinterpreted for something i did not claim.

 

[Wild Bill]

You don't understand, i've posted messages before these guys were quoting what i originally said abt the kelly comparison in so much detail, where i spent time typing up it, just so for a few people to consistently say i think he's a jake kelly level talent. I wanted to make it abundantly clear in capital letters so that my message is clear and doesn't continue becoming a fact that i said Gibcus is a kelly level player, when i explained how he's role in the afl will be sort of like a kelly player. I'm sorry if it looks like i'm being a mug or whatever but i know I've been misinterpreted for something i did not claim.

Might be time to log off for a while.

 

[Hazardinho]

And I'd hazard a guess not one live viewing.

I didn't watch him live as i have university responsibilities and other things in my life i have going on, so it's tough to catch games live. But i did go back and catch some of his performances, as he was getting rated super highly by everyone, and i wasn't sure it was the case when i watched him, as to why he was being made out to be high end prospect, i.e top 5, and i made my points as to why i think that. I respect if you have a different opinion on him as to me, but i don't like that what i stated is being misinterpreted for something else.

 

[Knightmare]

Nitpicking a bit but didn't Roos trade pick 2 (Josh Kelly) for Dom Tyson? That is a massive blunder.

I can't remember from the time how much of an impact he would have had, but was the trade completely attributable to Roos? Didn't they have a list manager in place who would have been that ultimate decision maker?

On the outcome of the trade though. Melbourne did fine in hindsight.

Dom Tyson, pick 9 = Salem and 57= Jayden Hunt were secured in that trade. That's a reasonable return for Kelly.

Tyson was actually pretty reasonable in those early years for Melbourne but unfortunately his first and third years with Melbourne (all under Roos) were his best. And of course upon joining North Melbourne he fell away completely.

 

[Hazardinho]

Might be time to log off for a while.

Cause i have a different opinion and can back up what i say?

 

[Wild Bill]

Cause i have a different opinion and can back up what i say?

Because you backed your 1st melt up with another melt.

 

[Hazardinho]

Because you backed your 1st melt up with another melt.

look i'll stop being a melt, i just want to give my opinion on football like everyone else.

 

[Shinboner1]

Nitpicking a bit but didn't Roos trade pick 2 (Josh Kelly) for Dom Tyson? That is a massive blunder.

Better than joyce giving him 4 years and polec 5.

 

[Firebat]

Dom Tyson, pick 9 = Salem and 57= Jayden Hunt were secured in that trade. That's a reasonable return for Kelly.

Geez I can't say I agree with this on any level.

Salem has had a couple of decentish years playing on half back, Hunt is borderline best 22 and Dom Tyson is Dom Tyson.

Kelly, when fit and firing, is one of the most impactful midfielders in the completion.

I don't think any club in the league would take Salem, Hunt and Tyson for Kelly and consider it a fair exchange.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I can't remember from the time how much of an impact he would have had, but was the trade completely attributable to Roos? Didn't they have a list manager in place who would have been that ultimate decision maker?

On the outcome of the trade though. Melbourne did fine in hindsight.

Dom Tyson, pick 9 = Salem and 57= Jayden Hunt were secured in that trade. That's a reasonable return for Kelly.

Tyson was actually pretty reasonable in those early years for Melbourne but unfortunately his first and third years with Melbourne (all under Roos) were his best. And of course upon joining North Melbourne he fell away completely.

It was pretty much all Roos who led that trade according to Tyson. Roos pretty much had total control of Melbourne when he walked in. Tyson was solid but nothing special imo, then his body broke down and other Melbourne inside mids went past him. The trade to North for Preuss was naive Cam Joyce ******* up for the last time. His body was shot and he hasn't got near it ever since.

I think Josh Kelly at Melbourne right now would be unbelievable.

 

[Nutjob]

Greenwood played alright tonight


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Better than joyce giving him 4 years and polec 5.

Please don't remind me. Joyce set us back so far. I think all North supporters are delighted to have Rawlings in charge now.

 

[Knightmare]

KM, have you played footy at any level, even local under 16s?

Honestly, it's clearer by the day that you have a horrific understanding of the game. I mean fair play to you for fleecing some cash out of ESPN, but your takes are genuinely more laughable by the post. Imagine thinking that this GF appearance is down to Paul Roos. I mean, holy sh*t. And then your JHF analysis is ******* laughable. Like, you genuinely have never played the game and that's absolutely fine, but it's ridiculous that you present yourself as an expert.

My advice, mate, is go have a ******* kick next year, even if you're playing back pocket on a bloke who the opposition has chucked in the forward pocket because they've just rocked up to training the week before, it'll inform your analysis for the better because atm there are country footy 2s players who have a better feel for the game than you do.

Seriously, that you think yourself as analogous to Stephen A says it all. Anyone reading this, go read Ed's or Davo's or PM's draft takes. Theyre so much better and at least they don't genuinely think that their takes are better than AFL recrtuiters'. I mean just ******* LOL.

Could Melbourne be there without the years Roos contributed? Can you say for sure they wouldn't be where Carlton are today? If so, on what grounds?

I'm here to inform my opinion by analysis. The quality of the conversation will only be as strong as the number of contributors who do the same.

Geez I can't say I agree with this on any level.

Salem has had a couple of decentish years playing on half back, Hunt is borderline best 22 and Dom Tyson is Dom Tyson.

Kelly, when fit and firing, is one of the most impactful midfielders in the completion.

I don't think any club in the league would take Salem, Hunt and Tyson for Kelly and consider it a fair exchange.

I agree with you Kelly is the best piece in the deal, and I also agree GWS were the winners of the deal.

Salem is better than decentish though. He's nearing elite for me. His past four years have been very strong, and this year has been his best.

 

[Hazardinho]

I literally said fair play to him for fleecing cash out of ESPN when he clearly has never played footy. I actually think that's pretty impressive. However, even you must admit that it's pretty ******* cooked that he's literally admitted to thinking that he knows better than AFL recruiters. like there's ******* narcissism and then there's that.

As I said though, If he's played at anything above a junior level, I'll delete these posts.

why not just be civil and say i don't agree with you KM on this take of yours, why does it need to come in the form of sarcasm and negligence. Just have constructive criticism with his posts and at least come to a middle ground, football is abt opinions and different perspectives. Show proof where he's ever claimed he knows better than AFL recruiters!

 

[Wrenny]

I SAID THEY WILL PLAY THE SAME ROLE IN THE AFL, NOT HIS POTENITAL TO BE OF JAKE KELLY, DON'T MAKE THIS A NARRATIVE I CREATED FROM NOW ON.

 

[Hazardinho]

Look, I despise pretentiousness and arrogance in anyone and I think it should be called out. Arrogance is poison.

If you don't agree with his takes, despite them being not popular ones, go to another draft thread where people share your views on players. At least he backs up his takes with his reasoning, he isn't just making outlandish claims and providing no context along with it. If he one of his unpopular takes ends up being true, he ain't gonna get his flowers and praises by people, they won't even acknowledge he got something right. People are just fickle and are neither satisfied, everything needs to be of the same view, same aligned thoughts and that's that, what's the point of even these draft threads if everyone knows whoever gets picked in the first round are the best players for whatever club picks them.

 

[Knightmare]

Have you ever played footy at any level above u16s or as the token back pocket of an u18s team?

My interest is on the talent in the draft and in the list management space. I'm here to talk football with those blessed with a civil tongue.

I may if there is the interest explore how I developed my interest in the draft and list management space in a YouTube video and what my journey was to get to where I am today.

I have no particular plans to be so self-indulgent, but if there is genuine interest from my readers, then I am happy to oblige.

 

[Hazardinho]

View attachment 1245237

 

[chopflop]

why not just be civil and say i don't agree with you KM on this take of yours, why does it need to come in the form of sarcasm and negligence. Just have constructive criticism with his posts and at least come to a middle ground, football is abt opinions and different perspectives. Show proof where he's ever claimed he knows better than AFL recruiters!

OK.....

I'm happy to call national recruiting managers incorrect in their assessments if they believe Horne-Francis is Dangerfield. It's not recognising how Horne-Francis impacts games to be so dismissive of his impact defensively to compare Horne-Francis to Dangerfield.