Opinion Knightsight, Hinesight and Hindsight Nov 2016 and 2017

[whiskeytown]

With regard to McCarthy. The important thing with key position players is having players who project as long term best 22 players. McCarthy didn't project to be that, and we only needed the one year to figure that out. Key position posts are all about maximum quality and McCarthy is a long term project who wasn't likely to develop into that best 22 player.



I don't see Stephenson becoming Fyfe. His hands aren't as reliable overhead firstly. Stephenson does have contested ball winning capabilities, but I expect he'll be more outside than inside, with his run his greatest asset. He'll start his career playing off half-forward and in time should make a wing his own.



A lot of misses from both myself and Collingwood in 2012. Don't think either myself or the club have bragging rights for 2012.

Brodie Grundy was the great hit from us both.

Tom Langdon a year earlier was my other great hit and may from a longer term perspective gives my choices the edge.

Otherwise Clurey v Broomhead is fairly even, with neither established, clear best 22 players but still on AFL lists. Nathan Hrovat still being in the system v Ben Kennedy gives me the slight edge on the smalls. Pies obviously did less badly with Ramsay by contrast to Garlett who didn't even make it through his first season with Hawthorn when drafted the following year.

Other than Langdon from the rookies, Collingwood's rookie choices also had the relatively greater success and were the more solid, though none of mine received a chance/another chance at AFL level in the case of Toy so there is that element of the unknown. Adam Oxley and Jack Frost still being in the AFL is still reasonable enough five years on and Sam Dwyer was also ok enough for a short time also.

As an outcome overall. I'll take this outcome against the Pies recruiting team.

Always a fun exercise to test yourself against the best.

On Broomhead.... given sidebottom's incumbency, Stephensons arrival and the success of WHE in the last 12 months... Broomhead seems to have fallen down that outside midfield pecking order

do you think he may be best suited being trialled as a rebounding back, the way the club did with Crisp to good effect?? Can't see him surviving on the list long term otherwise

 

[loki04]

Stephenson's position and attributes are similar-ish to WHE, but they're different players.

WHE has the pace, endurance, aerial marking including sticky hands, but has never been able to find much of the footy.

Stephenson while he is also tall and provides the run, is an aerial marking threat (without the sticky hands) is a much more capable ball winner. He will win the contested ball when it is his turn and he has a much easier time finding the footy - wing/midfield or forward. My expectation is Stephenson will be the better of the two. He's more like Isaac Smith (pace toned down slightly), if Smith was a more capable contested ball winner.

Hmm where have I read this write up before.

Knightmare said: ↑
#8 Brisbane - Will Hoskin-Elliot (VIC – Mid/Fwd)
Height: 182cm, Weight: 73kg, DOB: 02/09/1993
Recruited from: Western Jets
Style: Isaac Smith/ Trent McKenzie
Player comparison:
Range: 4-15
Profile: Will is a super high hurt factor type outside mid who can also play forward. Real favourite of mine. Excitement machine. Can just take off, has great pace and will zoom past most players. Has a fantastic 55-60m kick on him and kicks well on both feet. Just always when he has ball in hand feels really dangerous. Very clean no matter the conditions, very one touch. Real x-factor who hurts you with every touch he gets. Can win some hard ball and isn’t a soft outside player. Not bad overhead and good reader of the play. Has a great leap on him! Fantastic talent with allot to work with!
Why:

 

[Knightmare]

Hmm where have I read this write up before.

The contrast is that Stephenson has actually played on the ball and shown he can win first possession at the coalface and win clearances. Really natural reader of ruck taps.

Note he won 158 contested/178 uncontested in the TAC Cup. That's a good ratio. The expectation with Stephenson given this, and the numbers should be evidence enough. That Stephenson CAN win the contested ball when it is his turn.

On Broomhead.... given sidebottom's incumbency, Stephensons arrival and the success of WHE in the last 12 months... Broomhead seems to have fallen down that outside midfield pecking order

do you think he may be best suited being trialled as a rebounding back, the way the club did with Crisp to good effect?? Can't see him surviving on the list long term otherwise

I'm open minded with Broomhead, though I lean to keeping him mostly forward and would also like to see him get some minor midfield minutes to get him more involved and get his confidence up more regularly. Why I like him forward is for his ball use - kicking i50. Collingwood don't have enough players who can do this well, so that would be most ideal. With Scharenberg coming along down back and Sam Murray added with the intent to play, I'm not sure who Broomhead would play in front of down back. He does have the attributes to play back though - has the skills/pace/1v1 game/overhead capabilities and ball winning. To he is compatible and if things just aren't working for him, I'm not going to discount it.

The player I want to see moved back permanently is Aish. Similar to Broomhead, he can struggle to find the ball forward or midfield, but down back with the way he reads the game. I think he'll find things a lot easier.

 

[Knightmare]

I always love this thread

Butts is still available isnt he? If so i hope we take him as a rookie.

If we do that, id be really happy. I am happy with our draft but definitely think we need to add at least 2 KPPs through the rookie or PSD. Id look at Crameri and Collins as well

Butts is still available and my hope is Pies take him with their first rookie pick.

Crameri for mine is still clear AFL standard and would be a best 22 player. I'm very open minded to him, and would take if I could.

Collins is solid and could be considered for depth. Lachie Hansen is another I'm partial to as a key defender.

 

[Dynamics]

Butts is still available and my hope is Pies take him with their first rookie pick.

Crameri for mine is still clear AFL standard and would be a best 22 player. I'm very open minded to him, and would take if I could.

Collins is solid and could be considered for depth. Lachie Hansen is another I'm partial to as a key defender.

Couldn't agree more.

Butts as a rookie seems a no-brainer. Unlucky not to be drafted.

Crameri as a rookie gives us forward depth for a couple of seasons while younger players work to establish themselves etc.

 

[dansa]

I'm only going off the highlight packages but Nathan Murphy hits targets by foot. Looks a good pick up to my untrained eye.

 

[Anzacday]

Couldn't agree more.

I'm sure you could if you tried really hard

 

[Dynamics]

I'm sure you could if you tried really hard

Thanks a lot, now I have a nose bleed.

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

The player I want to see moved back permanently is Aish. Similar to Broomhead, he can struggle to find the ball forward or midfield, but down back with the way he reads the game. I think he'll find things a lot easier.

Yeah, I agree that his ball use and game smarts would be very handy in the back half, but i'm just worried about his relative lack of pace.

 

[whiskeytown]

Yeah, I agree that his ball use and game smarts would be very handy in the back half, but i'm just worried about his relative lack of pace.

I agree. Aish has better hands but Broonhead for mine has better pace, run and could potentially play tight on a small forward whereas Aish or Smith would be too slow for that I think.

With only Murray, Crisp and perhaps Varcoe... We still don't have much running rebound out of the back line. Ramsay may be rookied still, but I don't rate his running rebound that highly since he did his knee

 

[Hardas]

I'm only going off the highlight packages but Nathan Murphy hits targets by foot. Looks a good pick up to my untrained eye.

Seems to kick (and weight) it beautifully.

 

[Quicky]

On the night I would have gone:

6 - Aiden Bonar

I reckon Bonar could be the best player from this draft. I like his range of goal scoring avenues. He does it all from pack marks, to leads, speed to find space, crumbs and snaps. And at an almost key position height he addresses a need for tall forwards. I reckon he could fit in well with Lynch if we get him and is a perfect modern forward. Big gamble though!

Next in line: Nick Coffield then Jaidyn Stephenson.

In hindsight: - I wouldn't have traded for Aish. We'd have retained our 2016 2nd rounder and used that on WHE. In that scenario we have this years 2017 2nd rounder.

25 - Harry Petty

He'd be the key back i'd take. I like his all round game. Great kick of the ball. Intercepts. Good hand ball. Good pace. Can lock down on an opponent. Needs to fill out though.

Next in line: Sam Taylor - Actually may have been the better option, is a unit and ready to go.

39 - Nathan Murphy

Can't go past Nathans footskills here. But hard to pass on Ben Paton for me also. I like Bens combination of pace and footskills off half back.One of my favourites of the draft. That said I like the Murphy selection, his kicking is more elite but without the pace.

50 - Matched bid for Tyler Brown. I love Tylers agility. Knows how to move. Plenty to develop there.

60 - Jordan Butts.

I would have punted on the youngest player in the draft on potential. He is a key position, can play both ends, agile and a marking machine. I'd begin by developing him as a key forward as a project player. I'm thinking 3 years down the track.

We get: Aiden Bonar (KPF, third tall, midfielder), Harry Petty (KPD), Nathan Murphy (HBF, third tall), Tyler Brown (wing), Jordan Butts (KPF/KPD).

 

[MagpieJoel]

So why did we get another WHE? But one that’s not a good kick.

The whole need for pace is obvious but if you hit targets you don’t need to be as quick. I can think of times when we look painfully slow and sloppy. Then 2wks later look like the quickest team in the league.

Decision making and kicking accuracy is more important than pure speed. No better example of that is Ben Sinclair, terrible decision maker and ordinary kick, but could run fast so kept getting games.

Have you even seen an U18 game?

Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk

 

[Quicky]

So why did we get another WHE? But one that’s not a good kick.

The whole need for pace is obvious but if you hit targets you don’t need to be as quick. I can think of times when we look painfully slow and sloppy. Then 2wks later look like the quickest team in the league.

Decision making and kicking accuracy is more important than pure speed. No better example of that is Ben Sinclair, terrible decision maker and ordinary kick, but could run fast so kept getting games.

I reckon Stephenson is similar but different to WHE. Stephenson is capable of being more inside and inside with production. Less vanilla than WHE. But he isn't nearly as skilled with his field kicking. Both rangy, quick and goal scoring half forwards. I reckon it's great we have such speedy goal scoring threats up there.

 

[TradeDraft]

6 - Aiden Bonar

I reckon Bonar could be the best player from this draft. I like his range of goal scoring avenues. He does it all from pack marks, to leads, speed to find space, crumbs and snaps. And at an almost key position height he addresses a need for tall forwards. I reckon he could fit in well with Lynch if we get him and is a perfect modern forward. Big gamble though!

Next in line: Nick Coffield then Jaidyn Stephenson.

In hindsight: - I wouldn't have traded for Aish. We'd have retained our 2016 2nd rounder and used that on WHE. In that scenario we have this years 2017 2nd rounder.

I am happy we did the Aish Trade but Sadly he has not Panned out as Planner. Who said the Extra 3rd Round Pick would been much Better then Aish?

 

[Quicky]

I am happy we did the Aish Trade but Sadly he has not Panned out as Planner. Who said the Extra 3rd Round Pick would been much Better then Aish?

In the 2015 draft the second rounders wouldn't have been worth much to us because it was a s**t draft.

The 2nd rounder we gave up in 2016 was costly. If we hadn't given it up we could have used it to get WHE instead of this years 2nd rounder. That cost us a chance at Petty, Taylor and Balta. I reckon that may cost us.

 

[TradeDraft]

In the 2015 draft the second rounders wouldn't have been worth much to us because it was a s**t draft.

The 2nd rounder we gave up in 2016 was costly. If we hadn't given it up we could have used it to get WHE instead of this years 2nd rounder. That cost us a chance at Petty, Taylor and Balta. I reckon that may cost us.

We would of Picked Murphy in the 2nd Round ahead of Petty,Taylor and Balta

 

[BPikkers]

The contrast is that Stephenson has actually played on the ball and shown he can win first possession at the coalface and win clearances. Really natural reader of ruck taps.

Note he won 158 contested/178 uncontested in the TAC Cup. That's a good ratio. The expectation with Stephenson given this, and the numbers should be evidence enough. That Stephenson CAN win the contested ball when it is his turn.



I'm open minded with Broomhead, though I lean to keeping him mostly forward and would also like to see him get some minor midfield minutes to get him more involved and get his confidence up more regularly. Why I like him forward is for his ball use - kicking i50. Collingwood don't have enough players who can do this well, so that would be most ideal. With Scharenberg coming along down back and Sam Murray added with the intent to play, I'm not sure who Broomhead would play in front of down back. He does have the attributes to play back though - has the skills/pace/1v1 game/overhead capabilities and ball winning. To he is compatible and if things just aren't working for him, I'm not going to discount it.

The player I want to see moved back permanently is Aish. Similar to Broomhead, he can struggle to find the ball forward or midfield, but down back with the way he reads the game. I think he'll find things a lot easier.

Don’t you think his lack of pace is a real worry (Aish)?

 

[BPikkers]

In the 2015 draft the second rounders wouldn't have been worth much to us because it was a s**t draft.

The 2nd rounder we gave up in 2016 was costly. If we hadn't given it up we could have used it to get WHE instead of this years 2nd rounder. That cost us a chance at Petty, Taylor and Balta. I reckon that may cost us.

Or it may have gone to the Swans for Murray for their 3rd this year allowing us to keep our second for next years draft.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It's a funny but fun excercise to sort of say who you would pick in the spots.

I do feel a bit "odd" offering a view without watching lots of junior football, it's as if I'm not respecting the gurus we have on our boards, KM Snoop, Pie 4 Life.
Love their work.
My picks are from watching a few highlights some junior footy if a player is particularly mentioned and listening to the views of those that I think have lots of knowledge in this area.

The best way to indicate my picks is to place my thoughts as the draft wore on.

Pre 6 watching each pick drop, I thought Just before 6 we'd finally take Stephenson.
A bit sad about Coffield, Naughton and even Fogarty. But just before the name was called I kept thinking
Stephenson.

Pick 38? Till Balta was called each pick was phew no Balta. Once he went it was all Murphy Murphy Murphy.
(Petty the back up but Murphy was the chant)

At 50, I knew we'd match. We did. Welcome Tyler.

And then we passed.
No real thoughts on anyone else.

Handy, to rock solid night with two particularly high value picks.

Believe if healthy Stephenson and Murphy will both be ten year min B + to A grade value talent.
Stephenson potential from all you hear is potential elite. And that I like.

Clubs are built on those sorts of picks.

 

[left at home]

On the night I would have gone:

6 - Aiden Bonar

I reckon Bonar could be the best player from this draft. I like his range of goal scoring avenues. He does it all from pack marks, to leads, speed to find space, crumbs and snaps. And at an almost key position height he addresses a need for tall forwards. I reckon he could fit in well with Lynch if we get him and is a perfect modern forward. Big gamble though!

Next in line: Nick Coffield then Jaidyn Stephenson.

In hindsight: - I wouldn't have traded for Aish. We'd have retained our 2016 2nd rounder and used that on WHE. In that scenario we have this years 2017 2nd rounder.

25 - Harry Petty

He'd be the key back i'd take. I like his all round game. Great kick of the ball. Intercepts. Good hand ball. Good pace. Can lock down on an opponent. Needs to fill out though.

Next in line: Sam Taylor - Actually may have been the better option, is a unit and ready to go.

39 - Nathan Murphy

Can't go past Nathans footskills here. But hard to pass on Ben Paton for me also. I like Bens combination of pace and footskills off half back.One of my favourites of the draft. That said I like the Murphy selection, his kicking is more elite but without the pace.

50 - Matched bid for Tyler Brown. I love Tylers agility. Knows how to move. Plenty to develop there.

60 - Jordan Butts.

I would have punted on the youngest player in the draft on potential. He is a key position, can play both ends, agile and a marking machine. I'd begin by developing him as a key forward as a project player. I'm thinking 3 years down the track.

We get: Aiden Bonar (KPF, third tall, midfielder), Harry Petty (KPD), Nathan Murphy (HBF, third tall), Tyler Brown (wing), Jordan Butts (KPF/KPD).

By the end, though l thought they go Naughton l wanted the club to take a risk on Bonar, so much upside that it would have been worth it.
Agree on the second pick, better to have kepted it, though they would have gone Murphy, which ok with.

 

[Quicky]

By the end, though l thought they go Naughton l wanted the club to take a risk on Bonar, so much upside that it would have been worth it.
Agree on the second pick, better to have kepted it, though they would have gone Murphy, which ok with.

Sure. The club probably would have. But I wouldn't have in that scenario.

 

[Knightmare]

On the night I would have gone:

6 - Aiden Bonar

I reckon Bonar could be the best player from this draft. I like his range of goal scoring avenues. He does it all from pack marks, to leads, speed to find space, crumbs and snaps. And at an almost key position height he addresses a need for tall forwards. I reckon he could fit in well with Lynch if we get him and is a perfect modern forward. Big gamble though!

Next in line: Nick Coffield then Jaidyn Stephenson.

In hindsight: - I wouldn't have traded for Aish. We'd have retained our 2016 2nd rounder and used that on WHE. In that scenario we have this years 2017 2nd rounder.

25 - Harry Petty

He'd be the key back i'd take. I like his all round game. Great kick of the ball. Intercepts. Good hand ball. Good pace. Can lock down on an opponent. Needs to fill out though.

Next in line: Sam Taylor - Actually may have been the better option, is a unit and ready to go.

39 - Nathan Murphy

Can't go past Nathans footskills here. But hard to pass on Ben Paton for me also. I like Bens combination of pace and footskills off half back.One of my favourites of the draft. That said I like the Murphy selection, his kicking is more elite but without the pace.

50 - Matched bid for Tyler Brown. I love Tylers agility. Knows how to move. Plenty to develop there.

60 - Jordan Butts.

I would have punted on the youngest player in the draft on potential. He is a key position, can play both ends, agile and a marking machine. I'd begin by developing him as a key forward as a project player. I'm thinking 3 years down the track.

We get: Aiden Bonar (KPF, third tall, midfielder), Harry Petty (KPD), Nathan Murphy (HBF, third tall), Tyler Brown (wing), Jordan Butts (KPF/KPD).

Bonar is a real question-mark for me. He could really develop, given his size and athleticism, but his play towards the back end of the year did nothing to convince me. He wasn't impacting games and wasn't doing anything much offensively.

Had we retained pick 25, my man Noah Balta would have been my pick. Like the Petty choice, he's a good key defender with serious scope to develop.

With regard to Butts. I'm much higher on him as a key defender than I am a forward. He has the marking and endurance for a forward. Just his ground level stuff isn't clean enough for my liking up front. (not that Travs was either and he went pretty well for a long time).

Don’t you think his lack of pace is a real worry (Aish)?

There have been a few comments in this thread, but I don't see Aish's pace as a particular weakness. He isn't breaking the lines as per a Sinclair, but I wouldn't have thought he is overly slow.

It's more his contested ball winning that concerns me. He doesn't win enough of it, and it stems from that. He could also go about improving his endurance, so that he does go at a higher speed more often. Hopefully he is addressing both issues this preseason. Talk is he is starring on the track, so I trust he received a rocket at seasons end and is putting in the work he has long needed to, to take the next step.

 

[BPikkers]

Bonar is a real question-mark for me. He could really develop, given his size and athleticism, but his play towards the back end of the year did nothing to convince me. He wasn't impacting games and wasn't doing anything much offensively.

Had we retained pick 25, my man Noah Balta would have been my pick. Like the Petty choice, he's a good key defender with serious scope to develop.

With regard to Butts. I'm much higher on him as a key defender than I am a forward. He has the marking and endurance for a forward. Just his ground level stuff isn't clean enough for my liking up front. (not that Travs was either and he went pretty well for a long time).



There have been a few comments in this thread, but I don't see Aish's pace as a particular weakness. He isn't breaking the lines as per a Sinclair, but I wouldn't have thought he is overly slow.

It's more his contested ball winning that concerns me. He doesn't win enough of it, and it stems from that. He could also go about improving his endurance, so that he does go at a higher speed more often. Hopefully he is addressing both issues this preseason. Talk is he is starring on the track, so I trust he received a rocket at seasons end and is putting in the work he has long needed to, to take the next step.

Thanks for your comments KM. Aish entering into season 5 and now finally doing the work he needs to do? Hopefully he has just realised that this is his last opportunity to play AFL.

 

[Quicky]

Thanks for your comments KM. Aish entering into season 5 and now finally doing the work he needs to do? Hopefully he has just realised that this is his last opportunity to play AFL.

He was injured quite a bit of last year. But it isn't that promising when he has played less games for us than he did for Brisbane. His 2km time trial was worse than last years too. But there may have been other factors there, it was a hotter day or he had a niggle or something. I don't think it was heaps worse.