Knocked out in the tackle

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theyellowsash

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Feb 9, 2009
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I don't understand the point of this rule. Surely if a tackle causes the ball to be released without being handballed or kicked, that should be classified as an illegal disposal.

This drives me mad, and it's made worse by all the other rules which deliberately seek to either prevent rewarding a tackle or promote dropping of the ball. Surely I cant be the only one who thinks this?
 

kranky al

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I don't understand the point of this rule. Surely if a tackle causes the ball to be released without being handballed or kicked, that should be classified as an illegal disposal.

This drives me mad, and it's made worse by all the other rules which deliberately seek to either prevent rewarding a tackle or promote dropping of the ball. Surely I cant be the only one who thinks this?
Nah mate im all over it - gives me the absolute clive palmers as well
 

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sprockets

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Some teams use it as a tactic. Just drop it on contact. Don’t even try to retain the ball.
Better to let it fall out than try to dispose of it and fail with the way these rules are being interpreted.

I agree that if someone's good enough to stop you getting rid of the ball legally that player should be rewarded.
 

biaseddustyfan

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it would be much easier for them to umpire if they got rid of this dumb rule as well as prior opportunity rule. if you get tackled at any time you have 1-2 seconds to legally handball. if they ball gets out ANY other way including being knocked out, it's HTB straight away. this might even encourage players to legally handball it earlier and stop dropping/throwing it. the stupid frees they currently give out with HTB just frustrate players and fans together

I don't know if the AFL will do anything about it. they seem happy to just let players intentionally drop it/throw it/exaggerate a "knocking out" to keep the ball flowing. i think it's a terrible look and they should have to legally handball it or it's a free
 

Lavender Bushranger

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I don't understand the point of this rule. Surely if a tackle causes the ball to be released without being handballed or kicked, that should be classified as an illegal disposal.

This drives me mad, and it's made worse by all the other rules which deliberately seek to either prevent rewarding a tackle or promote dropping of the ball. Surely I cant be the only one who thinks this?
Interesting point.

For mine, the intent of the rule needs to be considered/remembered.

Is it to penalise a guy for being caught?

Or to reward a good tackle?

If it's the former, then you're right. If it's the latter, you're wrong.

In my opinion, you've only been caught if the guy actually lays a correct and legal tackle on you. Otherwise, the dude never caught you.

If a legal tackles jars it out - I teckon you're right. You got caught. Done.

However if it spills loose or gets knocked out by the tackler, then I don't think they actually caught you. Play on.
 

theyellowsash

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Interesting point.

For mine, the intent of the rule needs to be considered/remembered.

Is it to penalise a guy for being caught?

Or to reward a good tackle?

If it's the former, then you're right. If it's the latter, you're wrong.

In my opinion, you've only been caught if the guy actually lays a correct and legal tackle on you. Otherwise, the dude never caught you.

If a legal tackles jars it out - I teckon you're right. You got caught. Done.

However if it spills loose or gets knocked out by the tackler, then I don't think they actually caught you. Play on.
How do you judge the quality of a tackle though? Surely if a tackle causes the ball to dislodge illegally, that is a good tackle? Having a fistful of jumper is enough for the player to be disallowed from bouncing the ball, that should be enough for 'knocked out' to not apply either. I'd say just having an arm around should be enough.

If a player swipes the ball out of their hands when running past, that's a different matter as it's not a tackle.
 

Lavender Bushranger

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How do you judge the quality of a tackle though? Surely if a tackle causes the ball to dislodge illegally, that is a good tackle? Having a fistful of jumper is enough for the player to be disallowed from bouncing the ball, that should be enough for 'knocked out' to not apply either. I'd say just having an arm around should be enough.

If a player swipes the ball out of their hands when running past, that's a different matter as it's not a tackle.
I mean if the tackler knocks it out.
 

Adelaide Hawk

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I don't understand the point of this rule. Surely if a tackle causes the ball to be released without being handballed or kicked, that should be classified as an illegal disposal.

This drives me mad, and it's made worse by all the other rules which deliberately seek to either prevent rewarding a tackle or promote dropping of the ball. Surely I cant be the only one who thinks this?
The rules say it's holding the ball, but they don't umpire by the actual rules these days. I'm not sure why we even have rules.
 

LordLucifer

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I don't understand the point of this rule. Surely if a tackle causes the ball to be released without being handballed or kicked, that should be classified as an illegal disposal.

This drives me mad, and it's made worse by all the other rules which deliberately seek to either prevent rewarding a tackle or promote dropping of the ball. Surely I cant be the only one who thinks this?
When a player is tackled, it has to be "correctly" tackled too, he has two distinct but very clear choices to make.

He can either handball or kick, there are no other options.

If they don't correctly dispose of the ball and that includes the ball being forced out in the pressure of the tackle, then it is, or should be, an immediate free kick against the player who had the ball.

Should the tackling player purposely punch the ball away from the opposition player then it should be play on.

Added to that, if a teammate of the player being tackled jumps on top of the two of them trying to force a ball-up, it should be an automatic free kick to the tackler. This will go some way to addressing the congestion too.
 

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Duckimus Prime

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If it is knocked out with zero prior, then play on. We want to keep the ball moving, rather than hold up play for a free kick taken over the mark ... surely?
The problem is having to differentiate between the ball being knocked lose in the tackle and the player just dropping it. And then the next player just picks up the loose ball, is tackled and just repeats the same. Until we eventually get a stoppage or the ball is knocked away from the pack. Just pay the free in the first instance, results in players spreading out and taking up positions for a actual kick.
 
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The problem is having to differentiate between the ball being knocked lose in the tackle and the player just dropping it. And then the next player just picks up the loose ball, is tackled and just repeats the same. Until we eventually get a stoppage or the ball is knocked away from the pack. Just pay the free in the first instance, results in players spreading out and taking up positions for a actual kick.
Those that come out quickly after solid impact are usually knocked out. Those that drop to the ground after being tackled, not so much.
 

master bate

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Player A gathers the ball.

Tackler B immediately tackles them.

The ball spills free. The umpire then has 3 options:

1. Made a genuine attempt - play on.

2. The tackler jarred the ball free 'knocked out in the tackle' - play on.

3. Player A threw or dropped the ball - incorrect disposal - free kick.

I'm ok with seeing some of 1 and 2, but that doesn't mean that 3 isn't happening.
 

Rusty Brookes

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If it is knocked out with zero prior, then play on. We want to keep the ball moving, rather than hold up play for a free kick taken over the mark ... surely?
For sure, but so often I see the umpire call play on when there is prior opportunity because the "ball was knocked out". They're the decisions which make absolutely no sense to me.
 

bluebob1

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Well if you didnt get prior opportunity then you wouldnt pick it up in the first place so you would have this stupid situation where neither players wants to pick it up as they know they will be immediately tackled. One of the biggest problems is education of this rule, from my attendance at games i'd say about 80% dont know that you can just drop it if you are immediately tackled, most think it is holding the ball. I think the rule is better as it is rather than the change that you recommend.
 

theyellowsash

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Well if you didnt get prior opportunity then you wouldnt pick it up in the first place so you would have this stupid situation where neither players wants to pick it up as they know they will be immediately tackled. One of the biggest problems is education of this rule, from my attendance at games i'd say about 80% dont know that you can just drop it if you are immediately tackled, most think it is holding the ball. I think the rule is better as it is rather than the change that you recommend.
im not suggesting the removal of prior opportunity. but if a player has had prior, then if the ball is 'knocked out in the tackle' it should be holding the ball. but it isnt.
 

yeah_nah_yeah

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Player A gathers the ball.

Tackler B immediately tackles them.

The ball spills free. The umpire then has 3 options:

1. Made a genuine attempt - play on.

2. The tackler jarred the ball free 'knocked out in the tackle' - play on.

3. Player A threw or dropped the ball - incorrect disposal - free kick.

I'm ok with seeing some of 1 and 2, but that doesn't mean that 3 isn't happening.
For number 2, If there has been prior opportunity, i wouldn't mind seeing this as HTB.
 

master bate

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For number 2, If there has been prior opportunity, i wouldn't mind seeing this as HTB.
Yep if they've had prior it's ball unless it's clear as day the ball was knocked out of an outstretched hand or something similar. If it's a legit tackle not just whacking at the ball it's gone. It gets murkier without prior.
 

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