Kornes, Maclure and their 30 A Graders

[Fadge]

Salary equals how good a player is now. That’s good to know. Thanks. He’s earning more than Marcus Bontempelli and Kane Cornes said he’s the best 3.5 seasons ago

All hail your new best player in the game ladies and gentlemen.

Shai Bolton.

That settles the Gary Ablett GOAT debate then doesn’t it. What was he earning again?

So now when Kane Cornes doesn’t put him in this list, Kane Cornes’ opinion…. what, doesn’t matter?

I’m confused. When does Cornes’ opinion hold weight and when doesn’t it?

And TDK to be the new best player in the history of the game, when he goes to St. Kilda next year...

 

[gungho]

Hayden Young is an A grader

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I’m not in a flap about anything mate. He’s not even on the list

Your logic is just continually astoundingly hilarious.

He’s a good player yes and wanted to be at a new club, and that club rightfully thought he could make them better. So they make the concessions that allow it to happen. One of which is paying his salary. Fremantle are a side which by all rights should probably be somewhere near the higher reaches of the table and a player like Bolton may help them do it. Hes good enough to make a difference, so again, they see that as a reason to do what they have to in order to get him in.

That doesn’t mean he’s this all conquering ‘cream of the crop, best player in the comp’ entity you’re making him out to be, whether he’s from the tigers or any other club.

Same as smith for us. I’m staggered that people keep making out like we have recruited a superstar of some sort. As far as I’m concerned we felt like we were close enough to a grand final and had a need to find at least one potential ‘decent’ player to go into the midfield so had to do whatever we needed to in order to get him. That’s how clubs recruit.

Lol, we know you realise you are losing the argument about whether Bolton is an A Grader when you try to make out the argument is about whether he is the best player in the comp.

Classic Fadge PhatBoy Mr Meow

 

[bobs head soup]

From a Bulldogs perspective it's a bit of a joke that Cornes is constantly critical of Bevo given what he thinks is a stacked list, then reckons we have 1 A Grader.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

From a Bulldogs perspective it's a bit of a joke that Cornes is constantly critical of Bevo given what he thinks is a stacked list, then reckons we have 1 A Grader.

This is a classic example of the problem with starting from a biased position and trying to make the facts fit your agenda. There's always a few inconvenient left over facts.

Fadge has this problem all the time.

 

[PhatBoy]

Lol, we know you realise you are losing the argument about whether Bolton is an A Grader when you try to make out the argument is about whether he is the best player in the comp.

Classic Fadge PhatBoy Mr Meow

Ok mate.

You’ve so far tried to:

- Cite Cornes’ opinion as evidence of your argument… despite this actual list, that he’s not on, coming from Cornes

- use Bolton’s bank balance as proof of his standing

- use a draft pick as evidence of his output, rather than factoring in ANYTHING else like what the team giving up that draft pick might be looking to add to their team. North Melbourne traded out their first pick of the next draft - likely to be top 2-3 - three months ago for a kid called Matt Whitlock that hasn’t even played a game yet. So what are we to believe, that HIS value is probably as good as most people on this list?


Why isn’t he in Cornes or Maclure’s list?

What did he do last year that was so amazing? He hasn’t been named in an AA 44 man squad for either of the last two seasons, and he managed equal fifth in your best and fairest in a season where you were lucky to beat the bye round.

 

[PhatBoy]

This is a classic example of the problem with starting from a biased position and trying to make the facts fit your agenda. There's always a few inconvenient left over facts.

Fadge has this problem all the time.

#agenda

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Ok mate.

You’ve so far tried to:

- Cite Cornes’ opinion as evidence of your argument… despite this actual list, that he’s not on, coming from Cornes

- use Bolton’s bank balance as proof of his standing

- use a draft pick as evidence of his output, rather than factoring in ANYTHING else like what the team giving up that draft pick might be looking to add to their team. North Melbourne traded out their first pick of the next draft - likely to be top 2-3 - three months ago for a kid called Matt Whitlock that hasn’t even played a game yet. So what are we to believe, that HIS value is probably as good as most people on this list?


Why isn’t he in Cornes or Maclure’s list?

What did he do last year that was so amazing? He hasn’t been named in an AA 44 man squad for either of the last two seasons, and he managed equal fifth in your best and fairest in a season where you were lucky to beat the bye round.

Hiding easily verifiably wrong information within a complex array of difficult to follow reasoning doesn't magically launder those false claims PB.

Tough on you I know.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hiding easily verifiably wrong information within a complex array of difficult to follow reasoning doesn't magically launder those false claims PB.

Tough on you I know.

Did north or did they not, trade out their first rounder next year to get hold of him.

Your view is that the draft pick a team will give up equates to the player they get in return and that player’s standing and value in the game.

At the last draft, North Melbourne gave up their first rounder next year, which barring some unforeseen miracle is likely to be very close to the top, in order to secure pick 27 and take Matt Whitlock along with some loose change

It’s your logic, not mine.

 

[name change]

This is a classic example of the problem with starting from a biased position and trying to make the facts fit your agenda. There's always a few inconvenient left over facts.

Fadge has this problem all the time.

He has that problem because you're talking to him all the time

Hiding easily verifiably wrong information within a complex array of difficult to follow reasoning doesn't magically launder those false claims PB.

Tough on you I know.

Dunning-krueger — textbook case

 

[Noidnadroj]

Did north or did they not, trade out their first rounder next year to get hold of him.

Your view is that the draft pick a team will give up equates to the player they get in return and that player’s standing and value in the game.

At the last draft, North Melbourne gave up their first rounder next year, which barring some unforeseen miracle is likely to be very close to the top, in order to secure pick 27 and take Matt Whitlock along with some loose change

It’s your logic, not mine.

Freo clearly think he’s an A-grader. You don’t trade the picks they did and take on $1m+ long-term salary if you think he’s not elite.

He’s been playing small forward with chunks of midfield time in a team that has been average to very poor from 2022-2024 and has 155 goals and goal assists - anyone from a team as poor as Richmond from 2022-2024 come close to that output?

It’s very very difficult to have AA quality years as a small forward in a sh*te team. It’s very hard to play consistently well also, as Stengle showed in 2023 when Cats missed finals and he was well below his usual output, so B&F results for a small forward playing in the wooden spoon team is about the least relevant stat someone could conjure up.

Bolton is an elite player and if Freo are even remotely good in 2025 he’ll be one of the best handful of small-medium forwards in the game.

If Freo finish bottom with 2 wins and a percentage less than 60% he probably won’t be great.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[PhatBoy]

Freo clearly think he’s an A-grader. You don’t trade the picks they did and take on $1m+ long-term salary if you think he’s not elite.

He’s been playing small forward with chunks of midfield time in a team that has been average to very poor from 2022-2024 and has 155 goals and goal assists - anyone from a team as poor as Richmond from 2022-2024 come close to that output?

It’s very very difficult to have AA quality years as a small forward in a sh*te team. It’s very hard to play consistently well also, as Stengle showed in 2023 when Cats missed finals and he was well below his usual output, so B&F results for a small forward playing in the wooden spoon team is about the least relevant stat someone could conjure up.

Bolton is an elite player and if Freo are even remotely good in 2025 he’ll be one of the best handful of small-medium forwards in the game.

If Freo finish bottom with 2 wins and a percentage less than 60% he probably won’t be great.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That doesn’t make him one of the 30 best players in the comp, does it.

Nick Larkey has kicked/assisted 174 goals in less games (yes he’s not a midfielder) in a team who has been even worse over that period and he’s not in the list, is he.

Who said Bolton isn’t elite?

I haven’t.

 

[Mr Meow]

Lol, we know you realise you are losing the argument about whether Bolton is an A Grader when you try to make out the argument is about whether he is the best player in the comp.

Classic Fadge PhatBoy Mr Meow

Where did I say Bolton wasn't an A grader?

I said that based on 2024, Stengle was a bigger omission as far as elite small forwards - one you also forgot about and now seem utterly delighted to acknowledge.

 

[Mr Meow]

That doesn’t make him one of the 30 best players in the comp, does it.

Nick Larkey has kicked/assisted 174 goals in less games (yes he’s not a midfielder) in a team who has been even worse over that period and he’s not in the list, is he.

Who said Bolton isn’t elite?

I haven’t.

Paranoia and insecurity coming to the fore for the 500th time, with just one set of supporters.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Did north or did they not, trade out their first rounder next year to get hold of him.

Your view is that the draft pick a team will give up equates to the player they get in return and that player’s standing and value in the game.

At the last draft, North Melbourne gave up their first rounder next year, which barring some unforeseen miracle is likely to be very close to the top, in order to secure pick 27 and take Matt Whitlock along with some loose change

It’s your logic, not mine.

The trade was the pick North used for Whitlock(29) + Richmond's rd 2 pick 2025(favoured to be the first pick of rd 2) for North's rd 1 pick 2025(expected value around pick 6).

What this tells us is that North thought Whitlock was worth at least the difference between the other two picks, and Richmond thought he wasn't. There are, if you didn't notice, not one, but two future picks involved in this trade. So we are dealing with both unknown, and delayed values in a draft that has not even taken shape yet, let alone taken place.

What it doesn't tell us is that either Bolton's salary or trade price is not indicative of his value. In fact there is nothing telling us that bar Cornes, McClure, you, Fadge, & Meow. In other words, nothing anybody need to consider seriously.

Opinions can differ on the value of players, we all accept that. But the currency players are traded in is salary, & draft picks. Bolton since his last match was traded for pick 2-3 value and with the gaining club paying around $1.2m salary. That is actual. And these are not projected value picks that clubs can easily get wrong, they are known value picks in a draft where picks in that range(early teens) are thought to be worth more than in other drafts. And it was decided upon by a club who is trying to win flags starting in 2025.

All your absolute shyte trying to make false equivalents out of a trade involving Whitlock & 2 future unknown value picks can't obscure the fact Bolton has traded for a value that only a small amount of players have ever traded for. Fremantle's list managers & coaches are not coughing that much up for a B Grader, that would be laughable.

 

[Mr Meow]

The trade was the pick North used for Whitlock(29) + Richmond's rd 2 pick 2025(favoured to be the first pick of rd 2) for North's rd 1 pick 2025(expected value around pick 6).

What this tells us is that North thought Whitlock was worth at least the difference between the other two picks, and Richmond thought he wasn't. There are, if you didn't notice, not one, but two future picks involved in this trade. So we are dealing with both unknow, and delayed values in a draft that has not even taken shape yet, let alone taken place.

What it doesn't tell us is that either Bolton's salary or trade price is not indicative of his value. In fact there is nothing telling us that bar Cornes, McClure, you, Fadge, & Meow. In other words, nothing of value.

Opinions can differ on the value of players, we all accept that. But the currency players are traded in is salary, & draft picks. Bolton since his last match was traded for pick 2-3 value and with the gaining club paying around $1.2m salary. That is actual. And these are not projected value picks they are known value picks in a draft where picks in that range(early teens) are thought to be worth more than in other drafts. And it was decided upon by a club who is trying to win flags starting in 2025.

All your absolute shyte trying to make false equivalents out of a trade involving Whitlock & 2 future unknown value picks can't obscure the fact Bolton has traded for a value that only a small amount of players have ever traded for. Fremantle's list managers & coaches are not coughing that much up for a B Grader, that would be laughable.

Stengle was still better in 2024.

 

[hawkman]

With all these A graders Richmond had it is amazing they only won 2 games

 

[Mr Meow]

With all these A graders Richmond had it is amazing they only won 2 games

Bolton, Lambert, Rioli, Lynch, Balta, Taranto, Hopper, Prestia, Nankervis, Vlastuin and Broad were my 2024 Richmond A graders. How about you?

 

[hawkman]

Bolton, Lambert, Rioli, Lynch, Balta, Taranto, Hopper, Prestia, Nankervis, Vlastuin and Broad were my 2024 Richmond A graders. How about you?

Graham stiff to miss

 

[Meteoric Rise]

With all these A graders Richmond had it is amazing they only won 2 games

Barring retiring players, Richmond had 4 x top class players in their roles on their list in 2024.

Lynch, who was injured basically all year.

Bolton, who was for whatever reason, a bit quieter than the previous 2-3 seasons.

Rioli, who won the B & F and was fantastic.

Vlastuin, who has been consistently in the top 5-10 general defenders in the game for many years now.

The fist 2 play in hugely key, big money, high value roles.

The second two play in secondary value roles.

Those four are/have been elite in their roles when fit. That is different from being in the top 30 payers in the game, but based on the best form displayed by all current players over the last 3 seasons, Lynch & Bolton are comfortably in the top 30. You don't need that to be untrue for a team missing 350 odd games from their list to sink to winning two games.

 

[hawkman]

Barring retiring players, Richmond had 4 x top class players in their roles on their list in 2024.

Lynch, who was injured basically all year.

Bolton, who was for whatever reason, a bit quieter than the previous 2-3 seasons.

Rioli, who won the B & F and was fantastic.

Vlastuin, who has been consistently in the top 5-10 general defenders in the game for many years now.

The fist 2 play in hugely key, big money, high value roles.

The second two play in secondary value roles.

Those four are/have been elite in their roles when fit. That is different from being in the top 30 payers in the game, but based on the best form displayed by all current players over the last 3 seasons, Lynch & Bolton are comfortably in the top 30. You don't need that to be untrue for a team missing 350 odd games from their list to sink to winning two games.

Lynch has played 8 games over 2 years. There is no way you could say he is top 30 based on form that is now 3 years old

 

[PhatBoy]

The trade was the pick North used for Whitlock(29) + Richmond's rd 2 pick 2025(favoured to be the first pick of rd 2) for North's rd 1 pick 2025(expected value around pick 6).

What this tells us is that North thought Whitlock was worth at least the difference between the other two picks, and Richmond thought he wasn't. There are, if you didn't notice, not one, but two future picks involved in this trade. So we are dealing with both unknown, and delayed values in a draft that has not even taken shape yet, let alone taken place.

What it doesn't tell us is that either Bolton's salary or trade price is not indicative of his value. In fact there is nothing telling us that bar Cornes, McClure, you, Fadge, & Meow. In other words, nothing anybody need to consider seriously.

Opinions can differ on the value of players, we all accept that. But the currency players are traded in is salary, & draft picks. Bolton since his last match was traded for pick 2-3 value and with the gaining club paying around $1.2m salary. That is actual. And these are not projected value picks that clubs can easily get wrong, they are known value picks in a draft where picks in that range(early teens) are thought to be worth more than in other drafts. And it was decided upon by a club who is trying to win flags starting in 2025.

All your absolute shyte trying to make false equivalents out of a trade involving Whitlock & 2 future unknown value picks can't obscure the fact Bolton has traded for a value that only a small amount of players have ever traded for. Fremantle's list managers & coaches are not coughing that much up for a B Grader, that would be laughable.

Bolton’s value to Fremantle was what they need him, and want him for. Same as every, single, trade that has ever been done, lopsided or equal. He’s an excellent player and Fremantle will benefit from having him and where they are right now - a borderline finals team who probably should have made it last season, he might be the difference between finishing 6-10 and 1-5, who knows.

They gave up whatever the f**k ‘equivalency of’ pick 2 (it’s not even pick 2 it’s just picks 10-11) may or may not be, in order to get a player that wanted to go there, that they think could make them better, using hard currency that they had in their hand to offer your club. They didn’t go to the bank and withdraw ‘pick 2’ and say here you go, have this because it’s EXACTLY what he’s worth.

They didn’t give up Tony Lockett for him, Meteoric Rise.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Lynch has played 8 games over 2 years. There is no way you could say he is an top 30 based on form that is now 3 years old

I layed out the basis for the assessment.

 

[PhatBoy]

I layed out the basis for the assessment.

Picks

 

[hawkman]

I layed out the basis for the assessment.

Sure one that was favourable to Lynch and not one that 99.9% of people would hold.