Kornes, Maclure and their 30 A Graders

[Footy Smarts]

Show me a proven player who traded for the value of pick 2 who wasn't considered an A Grader.

You need to go back to grade 2 maths.

Under the AFL's wildly inaccurate points weightings picks 12, 14 and 21 with 17 and ~41 going back is only valued at about pick 5. That's barely more than you gave up for Hopper.

 

[Tall poppy Syndrome]

Define A grader.

Pundit puffery.

From the Oxford:

1. A person or thing that grades.

2. A wheeled machine for levelling the ground, especially in making roads.

3. A nickname for retired Aussie golf champion Wayne Grady.

 

[TheRealCrazyQ]

Using that logic the player taken at pick 2 is an A grader

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Lachie Weller?

Such an obvious answer. It's like dumb and dumber in these sort of threads sometimes.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

When did Lynch leave Richmond?

Lol, not too hard to confuse you.

But just so you don't confuse others....pretty sure in the very post you quoted I said based on the best form displayed by each player over the last 3 seasons. Nothing to do with saying Lynch should be on these lists, which ae clearly based on a different criteria. But you probably knew that.

Regardless, fully expect Lynch to be one of the best key forwards in the comp this year providing he doesn't cop another horror injury.

 

[Fadge]

Lol, not too hard to confuse you.

But just so you don't confuse others....pretty sure in the very post you quoted I said based on the best form displayed by each player over the last 3 seasons. Nothing to do with saying Lynch should be on these lists, which ae clearly based on a different criteria. But you probably knew that.

Regardless, fully expect Lynch to be one of the best key forwards in the comp this year providing he doesn't cop another horror injury.

Why would you mention him in this thread, if you're not inferring that he should be on the list?

Not to mention the fact you've doubled down, inferring he should be on the list...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Lachie Weller?

It is a good get and I had forgotten about that trade.

But it was actually pick to for Weller & pick 42(Charlie Ballard.) Closest in value to pick 4. There were also some different dynamics at play there, with other clubs saying they were shocked Freo got that pick for Weller. Weller was also not fully exposed being a 3rd year player so Suns could have seen some higher potential in him, he was pick 13 in 2014. Bolton is fully exposed, & absolutely nobody was shocked by his trade price, as it accurately reflected his market value and was a deal between a willing buyer and seller. Weller was a deal between a desperate buyer and an unenthusiastic seller.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Why would you mention him in this thread, if you're not inferring that he should be on the list?

Not to mention the fact you've doubled down, inferring he should be on the list...

Lol, go back and read the post I was responding to dumbarse.

 

[Fadge]

Lol, go back and read the post I was responding to dumbarse.

The post where I called you out for trying to gaslight everyone by saying you never suggested any current Richmond players should be on 'this list'?

 

[Outtatym]

Has someone rang Ben McKay and let him know hes an A grader due to his contract and what his compensation was worth... presumably he's out in paddock still trying to hit the side of a barn

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You need to go back to grade 2 maths.

Under the AFL's wildly inaccurate points weightings picks 12, 14 and 21 with 17 and ~41 going back is only valued at about pick 5. That's barely more than you gave up for Hopper.

Ok, if you go by the ultimate position of the picks it works out somehwere around pick 4 or 5 for Bolton. But that is allowing for Richmond's rd 3 pick 2025 being a pick in the early to mid 40's. I am not really sure either where Richmond will finish on the ladder or where a high end rd 3 pick will be in the order but those picks will clearly have less utility than they do now, and therefore, less value. That is built into the new system.

But I am going to say it works out about the value of pick 4. However, the centrepoint of this trade was the picks 10&11(slipped to 12, 14.) Those picks were valued a lot higher in this draft than in an average draft. So I am sticking with the real value of this trade to Richmond & Fremantle being around picks 2-3.

That is not the real issue though. Do you think Fremantle are giving up that value in picks and paying $1.2m x plenty of years for a player they think is a B grader?

But whatever, I am totally confident Bolton's 2024 season in isolation gives a false reading on him and he is comfortably inside the best 30 players in the AFL, and he is likely to have people absolutly raving about him if he has no catastrophes in 2025.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The post where I called you out for trying to gaslight everyone by saying you never suggested any current Richmond players should be on 'this list'?

Wrong of course.

Go back to post #67 on this thread. Even you would be able to follow the conversation from there.

 

[hawkman]

I also enjoy those arguments that 12, 14 and 21 with 17 going back is really worth pick 2, 3 or whatever it is, like any club(except WC) would actually do that deal. Using draft points is a terrible way to evaluate a trade as the top end picks aren't weighted high enough

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Your posts get the respect they deserve.

Thank you for conceding that, very kind of you. Yours do too, you can tell by the likes to posts ratio.

 

[Fadge]

Wrong of course.

Go back to post #67 on this thread. Even you would be able to follow the conversation from there.

Oh.

So it's now not about the post I responded to?

It's about a post referencing all the A Graders two win team Richmond had on their list in 2024, which was posted by a completely different poster altogether?

Keep tying yourself in those knots, and admiring your 'post to like ratio'... (thanks Falcon!)

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I also enjoy those arguments that 12, 14 and 21 with 17 going back is really worth pick 2, 3 or whatever it is, like any club(except WC) would actually do that deal. Using draft points is a terrible way to evaluate a trade as the top end picks aren't weighted high enough

It just isn't that black & white. Where clubs need high probability mids(Richmond & Carlton 2024 for eg) they might really value those top 10 picks. Where clubs have different things in mind(North, Eagles 2024 for eg) they might prefer multiple picks and or players of a lower denomination.

But the draft points value index is supposed to be worked out according to the average established values of picks in each range. I would be pretty surprised if it was far astray.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Oh.

So it's now not about the post I responded to?

It's about a post referencing all the A Graders two win team Richmond had on their list in 2024, which was posted by a completely different poster altogether?

Keep tying yourself in those knots, and admiring your 'post to like ratio'... (thanks Falcon!)

Jeez, I was just agreeing with another poster who kindly said my posts get the respect they deserve.

Yours do too Fadge.

 

[Fadge]

Very interesting....

I've just stumbled upon Meteoric Rise's A Graders list, which has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with salary.

Here it is:
1. Tom Lynch
2. Ben McKay
3. Christian Petracca
4. Shai Bolton
5. Clayton Oliver
6. Marcus Bontempelli
7. Brodie Grundy
8. Tim Kelly
9. Jeremy McGovern
10. Patrick Cripps
11. Jeremy Cameron
12. Aaron Naughton
13. Nat Fyfe
14. Darcy Moore
15. Dylan Shiel
16. Jacob Hopper
17. Ben King
18. Nick Larkey
19. Jack Lukosius
20. Max Gawn

 

[Mr Meow]

Very interesting....

I've just stumbled upon Meteoric Rise's A Graders list, which has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with salary.

Here it is:
1. Tom Lynch
2. Ben McKay
3. Christian Petracca
4. Shai Bolton
5. Clayton Oliver
6. Marcus Bontempelli
7. Brodie Grundy
8. Tim Kelly
9. Jeremy McGovern
10. Patrick Cripps
11. Jeremy Cameron
12. Aaron Naughton
13. Nat Fyfe
14. Darcy Moore
15. Dylan Shiel
16. Jacob Hopper
17. Ben King
18. Nick Larkey
19. Jack Lukosius
20. Max Gawn

And don't forget, it is based on 2023 and earlier only (2024 an irrelevant data point).

 

[Fadge]

And don't forget, it is based on 2023 and earlier only (2024 an irrelevant data point).

Of course he had to go back 3 years, given Lynch has played a total of 8 games over the past two seasons.

His 2022 season must have been something special, given it was enough to have him in the best 30 players in the competition over the past 3 seasons....

Imagine how good it would have been had he have put THAT goal through?

 

[Mr Meow]

Of course he had to go back 3 years, given Lynch has played a total of 8 games over the past two seasons.

His 2022 season must have been something special, given it was enough to have him in the best 30 players in the competition over the past 3 seasons....

The same Tom Lynch who was last All Australian in 2016, as a Gold Coast player?

Maybe we could still nominate Tom Hawkins post retirement, given he was at least All Australian in 2022.

 

[hawkman]

Ok, if you go by the ultimate position of the picks it works out somehwere around pick 4 or 5 for Bolton. But that is allowing for Richmond's rd 3 pick 2025 being a pick in the early to mid 40's. I am not really sure either where Richmond will finish on the ladder or where a high end rd 3 pick will be in the order but those picks will clearly have less utility than they do now, and therefore, less value. That is built into the new system.

But I am going to say it works out about the value of pick 4. However, the centrepoint of this trade was the picks 10&11(slipped to 12, 14.) Those picks were valued a lot higher in this draft than in an average draft. So I am sticking with the real value of this trade to Richmond & Fremantle being around picks 2-3.

That is not the real issue though. Do you think Fremantle are giving up that value in picks and paying $1.2m x plenty of years for a player they think is a B grader?

But whatever, I am totally confident Bolton's 2024 season in isolation gives a false reading on him and he is comfortably inside the best 30 players in the AFL, and he is likely to have people absolutly raving about him if he has no catastrophes in 2025.

Amazing that you have arbitrarily decided that the value for Richmond is higher than the actual value

 

[Fadge]

Amazing that you have arbitrarily decided that the value for Richmond is higher than the actual value

Do you not realise this draft was a 'Superdraft' - unprecedented... nothing like we've ever seen before or will again!

Obviously it was, otherwise why would Richmond do everything they could to get 8 picks in the top 25?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Has someone rang Ben McKay and let him know hes an A grader due to his contract and what his compensation was worth... presumably he's out in paddock still trying to hit the side of a barn

Yep so silly of me to value the players....in the actual currency they are traded in.

 

[Outtatym]

Yep so silly of me to value the players....in the actual currency they are traded in.

So you think McKay is one of the best players in the game? My friend, this explains your reaction to post ratio.