Koschitzke

[UGTM]

I think his time's up at St.Kilda.
Always admired him, but lately he drives me insame. Clearly he's totally out of form.
Ross needs to drop him to VFL for at least a week or two.

 

[karmafree]

It's just not working is it brothers?

I thought starting him in the ruck was a great move on Saturday. He took a nice mark and went back and slotted the first goal and I thought oh here we go.

And that was it.

It's killing me. I know he's trying, but he's just not producing the goods. I keep waiting for him to turn around, but after Rnd 16 he's going backwards.

We need you big boy.

Maybe they have made the call on him already and are only looking at keeping his trade value high. He would be a great 1st ruck/ forward for Gold Coast. Just wish he would return to some decent form.

 

[Defacto]

kosi is trying his guts out guys. he's put his body on the line season after season for us. lets not forget he was treated like meat during the thomas era.

 

[Jimmy 35]

I still have faith in the man, i just hope he's time to stand up comes soon before its too late

 

[mysainters]

I'm with Jimmy and Defacto, still not going to give up on him.

 

[Persevering Saint]

kosi is trying his guts out guys. he's put his body on the line season after season for us. lets not forget he was treated like meat during the thomas era.

I actually feel for the guy. I really do. I don't doubt his love of the club. I don't deny how deplorably he was treated during the Thomas era, and that GT effectively crippled players like him, Xavier, Raph, and many, many others with his total incompetence when it came to managing players' health and fitness. The simple fact is, those reasons/excuses don't win premierships. They don't even win games. They don't even make the game entertaining. What does all those things is having a full-forward, or even second-string full forward, kick the odd 5-goal haul and generally finish with about 50-60 goals a year, if not a bit more.

Look:
- Brown and Fevola, for all the problems they've had this year with fitness, are still pretty darn intimidating.
- Walker and Tippett at the Crows is a pretty darn exciting prospect, I think it's fair to say.
- Mooney having Pods has probably made Geelong even more potent.

That's just three examples. You can't tell me that Kosi is keeping up his end of the deal where the "Kosi and Roo" show is concerned.

What we want is a forward line like this:

- Three smalls, with one rotating in the middle:Schneids, Milney and Steven.
- Two talls, Roo being the speed and agility, one other being the muscle.
- A defensive small who kicks the odd goal - Mini at the moment.
- A third tall to medium sized player, who is good for 1-2 goals each game, can run like hell to keep his opponent honest. Stanley seems too tall for this arrangement, but his pace and fitness - and ferocity - may make him ideal.

To me, that means Kosi is in there for structure, as the strong tall. He just stinks at it right now. My hope is that next year, Walsh will have learned enough that he can be that terrifying strong player in the forward line. I want a strong-tall who makes a backman nervous. Kosi is not that right now. He hasn't been that all year.

 

[CHBench]

No matter which way you look at it, 12 goals is just pitiful.
& sad.
Not setting a good example when output like this is getting him a guaranteed game. Structure or no structure, extremely poor and dissapointing doesn't even express it. That's borderline vomit worthy.

 

[mysainters]

I actually feel for the guy. I really do. I don't doubt his love of the club. I don't deny how deplorably he was treated during the Thomas era, and that GT effectively crippled players like him, Xavier, Raph, and many, many others with his total incompetence when it came to managing players' health and fitness. The simple fact is, those reasons/excuses don't win premierships. They don't even win games. They don't even make the game entertaining. What does all those things is having a full-forward, or even second-string full forward, kick the odd 5-goal haul and generally finish with about 50-60 goals a year, if not a bit more.

Look:
- Brown and Fevola, for all the problems they've had this year with fitness, are still pretty darn intimidating.
- Walker and Tippett at the Crows is a pretty darn exciting prospect, I think it's fair to say.
- Mooney having Pods has probably made Geelong even more potent.

That's just three examples. You can't tell me that Kosi is keeping up his end of the deal where the "Kosi and Roo" show is concerned.

What we want is a forward line like this:

- Three smalls, with one rotating in the middle:Schneids, Milney and Steven.
- Two talls, Roo being the speed and agility, one other being the muscle.
- A defensive small who kicks the odd goal - Mini at the moment.
- A third tall to medium sized player, who is good for 1-2 goals each game, can run like hell to keep his opponent honest. Stanley seems too tall for this arrangement, but his pace and fitness - and ferocity - may make him ideal.

To me, that means Kosi is in there for structure, as the strong tall. He just stinks at it right now. My hope is that next year, Walsh will have learned enough that he can be that terrifying strong player in the forward line. I want a strong-tall who makes a backman nervous. Kosi is not that right now. He hasn't been that all year.

To be fair though, doesn't Pods look like someone who is limping into the second half of the season, and has even missed a game for general soreness?

I am sure he has a better understanding of exactly what a 'bash and crash' forward at AFL senior level truly involves. At the moment he truly looks every bit as battered as Kosi did towards the end of last season.

A guy can be leading the comp for contested marks (sound familiar) and suddenly it begins to heavily impact his body, it's no coincidence.

Not sure we all appreciate just how sore and sorry Justin probably feels these days after a few years of it

 

[Squizz]

I am sure he has a better understanding of exactly what a 'bash and crash' forward at AFL senior level truly involves. At the moment he truly looks every bit as battered as Kosi did towards the end of last season.

Mooney is more the bash & crash man.

The simple fact is that Pods has kicked 3 times as many goals as Kosi this year, averages 2.6 inside 50s (vs 1.4), 0.7 in goal assists (vs 0.4), and slightly more tackles per game.

Yet the Cats will drop him to the reserves if form warrants it - without second guessing themselves on the player's potential, reputation, history, and confidence.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

kosi is trying his guts out guys. he's put his body on the line season after season for us. lets not forget he was treated like meat during the thomas era.

Pattison tries his guts out as well, so does that mean we hold onto him as well?

I understand your point and I'd love nothing more than for Kosi to be up and about, but it's not happening. We've got to try something. Not only for us, but for him.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Mooney is more the bash & crash man.

The simple fact is that Pods has kicked 3 times as many goals as Kosi this year, averages 2.6 inside 50s (vs 1.4), 0.7 in goal assists (vs 0.4), and slightly more tackles per game.

Yet the Cats will drop him to the reserves if form warrants it - without second guessing themselves on the player's potential, reputation, history, and confidence.

And how sick and tired am I of hearing those four words for Kosi... over and over and over and over! And the only reason that we hear them is that we have to find reasons for him not performing.

It's not like he's the only one with these things. Take Riewoldt as an example. Riewoldt had TERRIBLE injuries for a while; he has a reputation, had potential (that is now realised), and from all indications has wrestled with a few demons along the way (he's an emotional guy). Yet he's become one of the best players in the league.

Am I aiming the bar too high? Fine. What about Goddard? Lenny? Fisher? McQualter? Honestly, the list goes on and on of players who have had crap hit them in their careers - form slumps, injuries, change of personel. Honestly, they wiped it off, rose above it, and became leaders. Meanwhile Kosi is wallowing in the mire, with all of these things drenching him with excuses.

And so he's "sore and sorry" because of the heavy impact on his body of taking contested marks? Roo was double-teamed continually throughout last year, with players deliberately sniping at him continually. No complaints there. Inside mids like Lenny, taggers like Bakes and Jones, etc, etc, never EVER allow the strain that is placed on their bodies through tackles, diving into the ball, etc, to be an excuse for poor performance, week in, week out. They recognise they are professionals, suck it up, and get on with the job. We respect them for that, we EXPECT that from them. But some don't expect it of our full-forward! Honestly, excuse after excuse. Just stop. Perform, or leave.

We're going for a premiership - these moments in a club's history are rare and precious, not to be squandered. I'm not subscribing to the "we're going for a premiership, let's be stupidly mercenary, and drop players at the first hint of a loss." This is a continual, ongoing, perpetual embarrassment to the team. A premiership isn't just won in September, it is built towards, and Kosi does not contribute to that.

And what's more, I think Ross is fully aware of this, otherwise he wouldn't have been grooming four young tall forwards in the Zebras.

 

[St DAC]

i agree trade him next year as stanley is a better full forward and draft another young forward with potential, he is not getting any better.

Stanley has kicked 3 goals in 6 games. He may or may not be a naughty boy, but he's certainly not the Messiah.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Stanley has kicked 3 goals in 6 games. He may or may not be a naughty boy, but he's certainly not the Messiah.

Don't complicate the issue with facts !

 

[Persevering Saint]

Don't complicate the issue with facts !

Never called Stanley or any of them the messiah - kind of outside my job specs.

At this point it is entirely unrealistic to replace Kosi with a kid and expect the kid to be a superhero. I'm not suggesting that - those that did so have had cold water splashed on their face with Stanley: he was a great kid, helped structure, etc, but obviously wasn't the superhero many expected.

But that's not the point. There are different expectations when playing a new kid with 0 games experience, compared to a 27yo with 100+ games experience. And that expectation is linked to both long term and short term benefits.

In the short term, the benefits of playing either a kid or Kosi actually seem rather negligible - neither seems to be able to do much in terms of game-breaking. That's not a selling point for a kid, but it's not exactly a selling point for Kosi either.
The problem for Kosi is the implications for long term benefits. Kosi has almost a decade in the system that is disappointing - the potential left is not particularly inspiring. If he's not stamped his place by now, it's hard to see him doing it from here. The long term benefits of the kid are well, rather promising, because he has another 10 years in the system, and every game he plays is giving him more experience, which will probably make him a better player. Kosi doesn't need any more experience. He needs to utilise the experiences he has already acquired. He doesn't. He should go.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Stanley scored 3 from 6 , Kosi 6 from 6.
Therefore neither of them are as effective as a midfielder playing forward ( Jack Steven).

Given that they are both next to useless as a full forward we need to look at the other aspects of their game. Stanley seems to have some - therefore he wins.
Stanley contributes to the forward pressure that is part of Saints footy.

( Did anyone notice Riewoldt tackling after the ball went to ground, basically setting up Jack Steven's second goal against Collingwood. It put Kosi to shame ).

 

[andolate]

Never called Stanley or any of them the messiah - kind of outside my job specs.

At this point it is entirely unrealistic to replace Kosi with a kid and expect the kid to be a superhero. I'm not suggesting that - those that did so have had cold water splashed on their face with Stanley: he was a great kid, helped structure, etc, but obviously wasn't the superhero many expected.

But that's not the point. There are different expectations when playing a new kid with 0 games experience, compared to a 27yo with 100+ games experience. And that expectation is linked to both long term and short term benefits.

In the short term, the benefits of playing either a kid or Kosi actually seem rather negligible - neither seems to be able to do much in terms of game-breaking. That's not a selling point for a kid, but it's not exactly a selling point for Kosi either.
The problem for Kosi is the implications for long term benefits. Kosi has almost a decade in the system that is disappointing - the potential left is not particularly inspiring. If he's not stamped his place by now, it's hard to see him doing it from here. The long term benefits of the kid are well, rather promising, because he has another 10 years in the system, and every game he plays is giving him more experience, which will probably make him a better player. Kosi doesn't need any more experience. He needs to utilise the experiences he has already acquired. He doesn't. He should go.

Well said and very accurate.

 

[Jimmy 35]

and the dissapointing thing is we all expected him to improve. 30 goals 08, 50 on 09 and after reading an article in the preseason saying that Kosi will basicly reach his potential, we get given this 2010 season of really nothing.

Hope is all we have left

 

[mysainters]

Mooney is more the bash & crash man.

The simple fact is that Pods has kicked 3 times as many goals as Kosi this year, averages 2.6 inside 50s (vs 1.4), 0.7 in goal assists (vs 0.4), and slightly more tackles per game.

Yet the Cats will drop him to the reserves if form warrants it - without second guessing themselves on the player's potential, reputation, history, and confidence.

I disagree Squizzy, if your the forward taking the huge amount of contested marks, you're the bash and crash. It's contested, well, because it's contested....in my opinion.

 

[mysainters]

And how sick and tired am I of hearing those four words for Kosi... over and over and over and over! And the only reason that we hear them is that we have to find reasons for him not performing.

It's not like he's the only one with these things. Take Riewoldt as an example. Riewoldt had TERRIBLE injuries for a while; he has a reputation, had potential (that is now realised), and from all indications has wrestled with a few demons along the way (he's an emotional guy). Yet he's become one of the best players in the league.

Am I aiming the bar too high? Fine. What about Goddard? Lenny? Fisher? McQualter? Honestly, the list goes on and on of players who have had crap hit them in their careers - form slumps, injuries, change of personel. Honestly, they wiped it off, rose above it, and became leaders. Meanwhile Kosi is wallowing in the mire, with all of these things drenching him with excuses.

And so he's "sore and sorry" because of the heavy impact on his body of taking contested marks? Roo was double-teamed continually throughout last year, with players deliberately sniping at him continually. No complaints there. Inside mids like Lenny, taggers like Bakes and Jones, etc, etc, never EVER allow the strain that is placed on their bodies through tackles, diving into the ball, etc, to be an excuse for poor performance, week in, week out. They recognise they are professionals, suck it up, and get on with the job. We respect them for that, we EXPECT that from them. But some don't expect it of our full-forward! Honestly, excuse after excuse. Just stop. Perform, or leave.

We're going for a premiership - these moments in a club's history are rare and precious, not to be squandered. I'm not subscribing to the "we're going for a premiership, let's be stupidly mercenary, and drop players at the first hint of a loss." This is a continual, ongoing, perpetual embarrassment to the team. A premiership isn't just won in September, it is built towards, and Kosi does not contribute to that.

And what's more, I think Ross is fully aware of this, otherwise he wouldn't have been grooming four young tall forwards in the Zebras.

I said crunching the packs has probably impacted his body somewhat, my opinion, which I am welcome to express on here am I not?

Also not sure how my opinion, suddenly translates to Kosi saying he is sore and sorry, and that he somehow now needs to suck it up and move on? I have certainly never heard him complain.

I appreciate you have a right to an opinion, please respect my opportunity to have one, and not ask me to stop.

 

[Squizz]

my opinion, which I am welcome to express on here am I not?

Of course - don't think Percy was saying otherwise?

If you want extreme opinions (the "horrible for his family to watch" was a pathetic comment - Maclure gets no respect from me):

http://www.backpagelead.com.au/afl/1971-koschitzke-gone-maclure

Champion Carlton forward Marc Maclure, now a respected commentator, says struggling Saint Justin Koschitzke is “finished” and his poor form has become “horrifying to watch”.

“I am really worried about him. He can’t find the ball, he gets pushed out of the way too easy, he just doesn’t look right to me.

“He is just a straight-line runner. As soon as he touches it, he can’t catch it.

“I think it’s getting to the stage where his head actually goes down all the time. He does something wrong and goes: ‘Shit, I’ve done that again. I just keep doing the wrong things all the time’.

“It’s sad.”

“It’s actually now horrible to watch, even for his family and him. There are no winners here.”

Former St Kilda coach Stan Alves says Koschitzke may be suffering from “paralysis by analysis” and simply needs to get to more contests.

“Watching him last week, the thing I noticed about him, he just became more and more a spectator as the game went on. Only he would know the reasons why. Even when there was a contest three or four metres away, I just watched him and he was just spectating."

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Of course - don't think Percy was saying otherwise?

If you want extreme opinions (the "horrible for his family to watch" was a pathetic comment - Maclure gets no respect from me):

http://www.backpagelead.com.au/afl/1971-koschitzke-gone-maclure

Champion Carlton forward Marc Maclure, now a respected commentator, says struggling Saint Justin Koschitzke is “finished” and his poor form has become “horrifying to watch”.

“I am really worried about him. He can’t find the ball, he gets pushed out of the way too easy, he just doesn’t look right to me.

“He is just a straight-line runner. As soon as he touches it, he can’t catch it.

“I think it’s getting to the stage where his head actually goes down all the time. He does something wrong and goes: ‘Shit, I’ve done that again. I just keep doing the wrong things all the time’.

“It’s sad.”

“It’s actually now horrible to watch, even for his family and him. There are no winners here.”

Former St Kilda coach Stan Alves says Koschitzke may be suffering from “paralysis by analysis” and simply needs to get to more contests.

“Watching him last week, the thing I noticed about him, he just became more and more a spectator as the game went on. Only he would know the reasons why. Even when there was a contest three or four metres away, I just watched him and he was just spectating."

Pretty poor comment. But some of the gist of it isn't far off the mark IMO.
I think a run in the VFL would do him some good. Learn to be competative again, and maybe even enjoy playing footy, without worrying about stuffing up. But is there room for him in a Sandy forward line next to Sautner?

 

[Papa Juggs]

I think it's over for Kosi.

Stanley is better.

He's taller, faster and has way more upside.

The spot needs to be handed over.

 

[mysainters]

Of course - don't think Percy was saying otherwise?

OK, I thought the just stop may of been directed at the likes of me.

 

[Simon Templar]

I've been having a squizz at Kosi's main rivals for his spot in the side, Pattison, Heyne, Stanley & possibly McEvoy. They're the players that have had a run & have some stats to make a comparison. Nothing inspiring about any them really, all on a par with each other & with Kosi & from what I've seen of them on TV, they have all played reasonably well without setting the game alight.

On one hand we have a guy with 150 games under his belt, his rivals with 1/2 a dozen games each doing just as well. Sorry Kosi, just not good enough. You've had most of the season to make an impact & it hasn't happened.

I've been a great admirer of Kosi for many years but I yearn for a flag, We need to choose one of these younger players & get them set for the finals NOW!

I sympathize with all the Kosi defenders & supporters, of which there are many here, but I really can't see how he can justify his spot any longer.

Time to gain some form in the 2nds or say goodbye.

 

[Geoff Cunningham]

Ross Lyon just defended him publicly again by saying that he had a jab after rolling his ankle early in the game against Collingwood. What about his performances in the previous 15 weeks Ross?