Kouta's attacks a bit rich - By Caro

[Alpha1]

Caro can't resist I bet she is so jealous that shes boiling over and steam is coming out of every pore and hole in her body. I bet she also still thinks that Bitchmond are still in the box seat to get Judd. And with Miller at the helm I am sure they are still in the box seat to get Juddy. Well bitchmond you have a long tough few decades at the bottom of the ladder the quicker they deal with the the better for them, here is the article http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/koutas-attacks-a-bit-rich/2007/10/27/1192941400657.html?page=3

 

[HBF]

Same old crap by Caro, and her vedetta against the Carlton Football Club. It really is pathetic, and I still have no idea how the hell she ever got the senior footy writers gig at The Age.

 

[Bronze]

Same old crap by Caro, and her vedetta against the Carlton Football Club. It really is pathetic, and I still have no idea how the hell she ever got the senior footy writers gig at The Age.

Because people read her articles?????

Again she is having a dig at Carlton BUT I think the final paragraph was spot on.

 

[mediumsizered]

Because people read her articles?????

Again she is having a dig at Carlton BUT I think the final paragraph was spot on.

She is having a dig at Carlton, because she can, but much of what she has written is true (for once). Why didn't Kouta & the others, front Pagan? Why have Scotland, Carazzo, Bentick been able to increase their number of possessions per game when Kouta couldn't? Has Kouta forgotten his body was stuffed & watching him trying to turn around over the last 2-3 years has been like watching the Queen Mary turn around. Did the senior players make a pact to play for each other & us loyal supporters, despite Pagan? I think we all know the answer to that.

What all this tells me is that our senior, most experienced players weren't necessarily prepared to give their best because they didn't like the coach. How about giving your best for the supporters who invest their hard-earned in the club? The supporters who go along to TD & the MCG, only to be made light of by opposition supporters when we have performed dismally over & over again. Or even for those supporters, like myself, who made the trek to the Gabba this season only to have to sit through one of the most disgraceful performances by a Carlton team. I was filthy with Kouta after that game because he did not try at all. And lets not forget the sponsors, corporates, admin people, trainers, waterboys, property stewards etc. Why couldn't the players have at least made an effort for this group of loyal, hard working supporters?

I hate having to agree with Caro, but in this case she has raised some very valid points. We all loved Kouta when he was at his best, but given the money he has made from our club & the opportunities that have arisen from his association with our club, I would have expected a little better from Kouta. Thanks for dragging up the negatives after the many positives that had been generated by the recruiting of Judd & even Hadley.

FWIW, I look forward to Caro's article detailing why Chris Judd did not even consider joining Richmond & why they gave up pick 18 for an unaccountable, running HB (Lappin loves his style) & why they recruited a player who couldn't crack it for a regular gig in an injury depleted Eagles' team this season. That should make for some interesting reading as well.

 

[jasonwilde]

^^^^^^^^^^
Good honest post Mediumsized.
It takes a lot for people to agree with Caro, especially when she is bagging your club. However, you present good points.
It also takes a lot for a Collingwood supporter to agree with a Carlton one.
I think everyone thinks Caro has a vendetta against their chosen club (except Richmond supporters). I know she's always whinging about Collingwood's draw, Eddie's influence, her being ugly, etc....but I think at least she's not mainstream and offers food for thought. No matter what you thought of Kouta as a player, what he has done here raises some serious questions that need to be looked at.

 

[truebluenavyblues]

I agree with what MS said about the players playing for the supporters despite Pagan. The Carlton Football Club has gone threw it's worst patch in history, the senior players not being able to perform just made it that much worse. I felt towards the end of Kouta's career that he was no longer good enough to hold down a spot in the 22 and if he continued on he'd be just scabbing the club. Revealing that the players revolted against Pagan doesn't shed a good light on the club, instead it just shows that the infighting at Carlton before Dick Pratt tookover was horrible and i think most of us see that we needed a board change if we were to move forward.

With our young list we needed senior players that were going to stand up, take accountability and provide an example for the kids to learn off. The senior players like Whitnall & Kouta were not doing this and as such didn't deserve a spot in the team. Kouta was OK coming off the bench but still didn't provide that influence you'd expect especially in the 4th quarter when the kids were tired but we still had a sniff. That's when the seniors are supposed to step-up and carry the team to the last siren and even if not winning, keep the game close.

The captain is the man that is supposed to carry the team and provide an inspiration for his team. Lance sure as hell didn't do that. Instead he couldn't run, jump or kick. It would have been so disheartening for the kids like Murphy & Waite & Gibbs to see their captain struggle through the game the way Lance did. We were better off playing without Lance and giving JK a full season in the CHF slot instead of having Lance there when he couldn't kick (demonstrated by the game against Melbourne).

So i can see where Caro is coming from and i think my fellow supporters are ignorant if you say she is totally wrong. My two cents worth.

 

[Maximus76]

I reckon caro has gone a little over the top - however the cheap shots by kouta and today campo were just not called for. Denis is a dual premiership coach so hes probably got a reaosn for being a little stubborn.

Campo comments are a bit rich especially given hes now headed into an assistace coach role at a very weak team. Will be looking forward to his "new age" style of coaching - is it just everyone hanging out o.nf the wings seagulling?.

dont kick a dog when hes down - espcially if you contirubted next to nothing during his time as coach.

 

[Andyt31]

Same old crap by Caro, and her vedetta against the Carlton Football Club. It really is pathetic, and I still have no idea how the hell she ever got the senior footy writers gig at The Age.

loL glad she doesn't write for the Herald Sun they got their own version of Caro thats why i never by the age i can't stand her on the couch one exception only if she talks about other clubs or if she only gives positive attitude talk about Carlton or off the tv will go .

 

[len_jet]

FWIW, I look forward to Caro's article detailing why Chris Judd did not even consider joining Richmond & why they gave up pick 18 for an unaccountable, running HB (Lappin loves his style) & why they recruited a player who couldn't crack it for a regular gig in an injury depleted Eagles' team this season. That should make for some interesting reading as well.

I'd love to see that too and I reckon we might get it. Watching her belittle Miller on FC this year I could only giggle and think how bad things are down at Richmond. You got Terry Wallet and Mrs Miller drafting the club into the ground, sticking their nose in Carltons business "to keep them honest" and they have every player running in the opposite direction to Punt Road. I would also like to see the background to the Pick 90 for King & Gardiner deal explained in depth because I reckon Richmond could of put up their 80 something pick and had room in the salary cap to pick up their poor salaries yet they didn't... the players not want to go to Richmond? I think so! I pity the uncontracted player who ends up at Richmond with pick #1 in the PSD.

 

[rupert pupkin 87]

I'd love to see that too and I reckon we might get it. Watching her belittle Miller on FC this year I could only giggle and think how bad things are down at Richmond. You got Terry Wallet and Mrs Miller drafting the club into the ground, sticking their nose in Carltons business "to keep them honest" and they have every player running in the opposite direction to Punt Road. I would also like to see the background to the Pick 90 for King & Gardiner deal explained in depth because I reckon Richmond could of put up their 80 something pick and had room in the salary cap to pick up their poor salaries yet they didn't... the players not want to go to Richmond? I think so! I pity the uncontracted player who ends up at Richmond with pick #1 in the PSD.

dude we never even made a play for King or Gardiner what the hell are you talking about???

 

[len_jet]

dude we never even made a play for King or Gardiner what the hell are you talking about???

the fact that you guys are dieing in the ruck points to the fact that you need a Ruckman. A premiership ruckman of Kings ability would of been prime to allow for someone like Graham who showed plenty in his two games (pattison is hopeless) to develop into a ruckman under the guidance of King. Simmonds will always be a pinch hitter, better forward.

For the fact that they went for pick 90, are you sure Richmond didn't make a play, I bet you they did, but the players didn't want to go to Punt Road, like everyone else during the trade week.

 

[AlecDuncan]

I take Caro's point that our problems were bigger than Pagan - when he arrived. However, by the time he left our ONLY problem was Pagan - and this comes from a Pagan supporter. As ugly as it looked, the senior players were right to take it to the board. They almost certainly agreed with the players, but sadly the board's hands were tied. One more reason to thank Pratt.

Stubborn, uncompromising - these are good attributes when you're right. They're shit when you're wrong, and Pagan was wrong too often. You only have to see the immediate improvement once Ratten took over to know who was holding us back. The fiasco over Mitchell also underlines how stubborn and damaging Pagan could be about petty personality issues.

When Kouta says Denis is unfair, I read it as, for instance, making Lance do time trials around Princes Park when he obviously has a knee problem instead of managing it correctly. The idea is to get the best out of everyone, not break them. We need a coach, not a drill sargeant.

And yet he could be great with some personalities. What he's done for Fevola is brilliant, and something we should all be grateful for.

You can always tell it's a Caro article just from the tenor of it. She'll take any opportunity to abuse her position and slag us off. I can't wait to shove her articles down her throat.

 

[Alpha1]

I take Caro's point that our problems were bigger than Pagan - when he arrived. However, by the time he left our ONLY problem was Pagan - and this comes from a Pagan supporter. As ugly as it looked, the senior players were right to take it to the board. They almost certainly agreed with the players, but sadly the board's hands were tied. One more reason to thank Pratt.

Stubborn, uncompromising - these are good attributes when you're right. They're shit when you're wrong, and Pagan was wrong too often. You only have to see the immediate improvement once Ratten took over to know who was holding us back. The fiasco over Mitchell also underlines how stubborn and damaging Pagan could be about petty personality issues.

When Kouta says Denis is unfair, I read it as, for instance, making Lance do time trials around Princes Park when he obviously has a knee problem instead of managing it correctly. The idea is to get the best out of everyone, not break them. We need a coach, not a drill sargeant.

And yet he could be great with some personalities. What he's done for Fevola is brilliant, and something we should all be grateful for.

You can always tell it's a Caro article just from the tenor of it. She'll take any opportunity to abuse her position and slag us off. I can't wait to shove her articles down her throat.

Don't worry that time is coming soon rejoice and sing hallelujahs and bow down to the altar of the Blues

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I take Caro's point that our problems were bigger than Pagan - when he arrived. However, by the time he left our ONLY problem was Pagan - and this comes from a Pagan supporter. As ugly as it looked, the senior players were right to take it to the board. They almost certainly agreed with the players, but sadly the board's hands were tied. One more reason to thank Pratt.

Stubborn, uncompromising - these are good attributes when you're right. They're shit when you're wrong, and Pagan was wrong too often. You only have to see the immediate improvement once Ratten took over to know who was holding us back. The fiasco over Mitchell also underlines how stubborn and damaging Pagan could be about petty personality issues.

When Kouta says Denis is unfair, I read it as, for instance, making Lance do time trials around Princes Park when he obviously has a knee problem instead of managing it correctly. The idea is to get the best out of everyone, not break them. We need a coach, not a drill sargeant.

And yet he could be great with some personalities. What he's done for Fevola is brilliant, and something we should all be grateful for.

You can always tell it's a Caro article just from the tenor of it. She'll take any opportunity to abuse her position and slag us off. I can't wait to shove her articles down her throat.

Lance needed a drill seargeant,,,

No what was "unfair" was doing all the things the coach asked them to do that Kouta Lance etc thought were "unfar"...and how he treated players... for example allowing Lance to be captain when others trained much harder was "unfair".... remember... Kouta is just calling what he thinks is unfair.. unfair....ut when he was sakig up a fifth of the salary cap was that unfair???

 

[AlecDuncan]

Lance needed a drill seargeant,,,

No, what he needed was a modified training program which left him able to run for more than a quarter during games. One size doesn't fit all. The point isn't to feel good about having players submit to your will, it's to get the best out of each individual. He was prepared to do it with Fevola, but not the other senior players. Perhaps the feelings were mutual and Pagan just wanted them gone too.

No what was "unfair" was doing all the things the coach asked them to do that Kouta Lance etc thought were "unfar"...and how he treated players... for example allowing Lance to be captain when others trained much harder was "unfair".... remember... Kouta is just calling what he thinks is unfair.. unfair....ut when he was sakig up a fifth of the salary cap was that unfair???

THS, I sometimes wonder if your account has been hacked by a teenager.

 

[Bosun]

She is having a dig at Carlton, because she can, but much of what she has written is true (for once). Why didn't Kouta & the others, front Pagan? Why have Scotland, Carazzo, Bentick been able to increase their number of possessions per game when Kouta couldn't? Has Kouta forgotten his body was stuffed & watching him trying to turn around over the last 2-3 years has been like watching the Queen Mary turn around. Did the senior players make a pact to play for each other & us loyal supporters, despite Pagan? I think we all know the answer to that.

What all this tells me is that our senior, most experienced players weren't necessarily prepared to give their best because they didn't like the coach. How about giving your best for the supporters who invest their hard-earned in the club? The supporters who go along to TD & the MCG, only to be made light of by opposition supporters when we have performed dismally over & over again. Or even for those supporters, like myself, who made the trek to the Gabba this season only to have to sit through one of the most disgraceful performances by a Carlton team. I was filthy with Kouta after that game because he did not try at all. And lets not forget the sponsors, corporates, admin people, trainers, waterboys, property stewards etc. Why couldn't the players have at least made an effort for this group of loyal, hard working supporters?

I hate having to agree with Caro, but in this case she has raised some very valid points. We all loved Kouta when he was at his best, but given the money he has made from our club & the opportunities that have arisen from his association with our club, I would have expected a little better from Kouta. Thanks for dragging up the negatives after the many positives that had been generated by the recruiting of Judd & even Hadley.

FWIW, I look forward to Caro's article detailing why Chris Judd did not even consider joining Richmond & why they gave up pick 18 for an unaccountable, running HB (Lappin loves his style) & why they recruited a player who couldn't crack it for a regular gig in an injury depleted Eagles' team this season. That should make for some interesting reading as well.

That is one of the best posts ive read, top stuff and I agree completely

 

[Lost my wrinkles]

Rumour has it Carro and Pagan were spotted by the coast guard skinny dipping on the second sand bar off Elwood beach enjoying Melbourne's balmy 29.5 degrees on Sat. arvo........hmmm!!

 

[len_jet]

Rumour has it Carro and Pagan were spotted by the coast guard skinny dipping on the second sand bar off Elwood beach enjoying Melbourne's balmy 29.5 degrees on Sat. arvo........hmmm!!

that's a horrible horrible thought!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

All this tells me is that we were a team full of precious egos where they had very little right to be. The players were tripping and the coach was tripping and neither were flexible enough to concede and try something different.

How lucky are we that we did not lose a Walker, a Simpson or a Murphy while this sort of crap played out?

I am dirty on players like Nick Stevens, hating his well paid day job enough to go out and get drunk regularly, then presenting himself in less than top shape, getting owned by players like Crowley, all the while while we were spiralling to wooden spoons. Sure, he gets credit for turning it around but I can not help but wonder about how far a little application will go. Our senior players have poisoned our young players and are fortunate the young guys bonded enough to hang around for the sake of each other.

With these influences out of the club, the improvement should come hand over fist. We wondered why our young guys did not come on as fast as other team's young players did ... well we have our answer. The experienced players were the big sooks while the inexperienced players had to look to each other for guidance.

What is done is done and we may be better for it all, but some of the pain of the last 6 years was unnecessary if there was a shred of professionalism at the club. A few people at the club need to recognise that they let themselves and all of us down.

I became a Blues fan at the start of '79 ... not playing for the jumper and believing the individual was bigger than the team was never an option back then.

I can only be thankful that our poison has been cut out in less than a decade as it seems it had the potential to be generation changing.

 

[BlueBelle]

All this tells me is that we were a team full of precious egos where they had very little right to be. The players were tripping and the coach was tripping and neither were flexible enough to concede and try something different.

How lucky are we that we did not lose a Walker, a Simpson or a Murphy while this sort of crap played out?

I am dirty on players like Nick Stevens, hating his well paid day job enough to go out and get drunk regularly, then presenting himself in less than top shape, getting owned by players like Crowley, all the while while we were spiralling to wooden spoons. Sure, he gets credit for turning it around but I can not help but wonder about how far a little application will go. Our senior players have poisoned our young players and are fortunate the young guys bonded enough to hang around for the sake of each other.

With these influences out of the club, the improvement should come hand over fist. We wondered why our young guys did not come on as fast as other team's young players did ... well we have our answer. They experienced players were the big sooks while the inexperienced players had to look to each other for guidance.

What is done is done and we may be better for it all, but some of the pain of the last 6 years was unnecessary if there was a shred of professionalism at the club. A few people at the club need to recognise that they let themselves and all of us down.

I became a Blues fan at the start of '79 ... not playing for the jumper and believing the individual was bigger than the team was never an option back then.

I can only be thankful that our poison has been cut out in less than a decade as it seems it had the potential to be generation changing.

One of the best posts I have read!

 

[Lost my wrinkles]

Thats another reason why getting Juddy was so important. Leads by example be it training or chasing the pill . Also makes it more difficult for young players like Gibbs, Murph or Tex to be lured away by other clubs..

 

[richardnose]

didn't carlton just win three wooden spoons ? are some of you expecting articles praising carlton and it's leadership over the last few years ? accurate article about a shitty, struggling club...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

didn't carlton just win three wooden spoons ? are some of you expecting articles praising carlton and it's leadership over the last few years ? accurate article about a shitty, struggling club...

Well that was pointless and costly.

 

[jasonwilde]

Well that was pointless and costly.

He seriously got a yellow card for that?
All he was saying was that owing to their poor performance over the last six years, people cannot honestly expect there to be that many articles written praising Carlton's efforts....
Not rocket science really.
Yes, you have started to turn it around, especially off-field and if this translates to wins then you can expect a few articles in your favour...

 

[Blues_Man]

He seriously got a yellow card for that?
All he was saying was that owing to their poor performance over the last six years, people cannot honestly expect there to be that many articles written praising Carlton's efforts....
Not rocket science really.
Yes, you have started to turn it around, especially off-field and if this translates to wins then you can expect a few articles in your favour...

Thank you for translating feral into english