Opinion Kreuz - A new dawn or dusk fast approaching?

[thylacine60]

Gotta take more marks. Gets his hands to the ball first as much as anyone, just can't them to stick.

Early on he was very good overhead.

His kicking style is still "Look mum, I'm an airplane".

 

[BlueJet]

I asked for evidence, not an opinion, but this really isn't the thread for this anyway. Suffice to say he's got a lot of work to do if he wants to be an AFL ruck beyond 2017.

Phillips has only played 30 games of senior footy and on output isn't that far behind Kreuz, with ongoing concerns regarding Kreuzers durability it isn't unreasonable to see Phillips supplant Kreuz as first ruck.

 

[Soapy V]

I just see a player that the game has gone past. Can never question effort and attitude but not big or imposing and skills are poor. Doesn't influence games at all. His spot will depend upon Phillips form. I just hope we go with one ruckman and a forward/ruck like Rowe or Gorringe in our line up. 2 rucks don't work

If he wasn't a number one pick I think he would be gone already

 

[HBF]

Gotta take more marks. Gets his hands to the ball first as much as anyone, just can't them to stick.

Early on he was very good overhead.

And he needs to improve when he goes forward. Simply doesn't take enough marks inside forward 50 for a bloke of his talent.

 

[Jabba73]

Kreuzer often looks like he forgets he is in a marking contest and tries to palm the ball to the front of the pack.

Seems to get a little under the ball and his arms are too straight, no give in the elbows. Someone who understands the technique required might be able to explain why it looks so awkward better than I can.

 

[Deep Blue]

Kreuzer often looks like he forgets he is in a marking contest and tries to palm the ball to the front of the pack.

Seems to get a little under the ball and his arms are too straight, no give in the elbows. Someone who understands the technique required might be able to explain why it looks so awkward better than I can.

His marking has certainly slipped since his early days - agree with the stiffness in the arms - looks as though he's trying to impersonate a lamp-post or maybe he's being sponsored by Rexona! Maybe he's been over-coached and is over-thinking things out in the field? Remember how Ian Baker-Finch "forgot how to play golf"! Hopefully Kreuz can resurrect his marking to some degree - would be a great starting point.

 

[bmaurizio]

Kreuzer, Phillips and Casboult collectively don't kick enough goals. If we had actually been in the business of winning games, we'd have restructured in the second half of the season.

With the speculative last three round we can look at a Ruckman do you have any suggestions , I've be so midfielder and X Factor fixated that I don't have reliable info. The only one that comes to mind ic Cameron

There's always next year.

Would you believe we haven't drafted even one ruckman in the national draft since 2007 when we took a young man named, wait for it... Kreuzer?[/QUOTE

Yeah our ruck stocks have been thin apart from Phillips very little has been done.
This year I know of English and Cameron, we could pick Darcy good size 204 cm , mature should be ready if given a go.
They're the only two I know do you have any info other options ? thanks

 

[Azul]

With the speculative last three round we can look at a Ruckman do you have any suggestions , I've be so midfielder and X Factor fixated that I don't have reliable info. The only one that comes to mind ic Cameron

Olango has been mentioned as a project player due to his athleticism. Darcy is a beast. Sweet and Ladhams have been mentioned in phantom drafts as rookies. Strnadica might make a forward/ruck.

 

[ShanDog]

I asked for evidence, not an opinion, but this really isn't the thread for this anyway. Suffice to say he's got a lot of work to do if he wants to be an AFL ruck beyond 2017.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

I love Kreuz, such a lion hearted trier who would have been a champion if not for all his rotten luck with injuries, but i fear he is in the twilight of his career. Can't see him going on past 2018, hope i'm wrong, but he also has to consider quality of life post footy, not sure if his poor body can take too many more knocks.

Personally i would rest him every 4th or 5th game next season, try and see if that could prolong his longevity that way.

 

[Big Sim is Back]

He is what he is. Solid player with some good points and some bad points. Not as good as he should be when resting forward, does not take enough marks or kick enough goals. But goes hard around the ground and at ground level, never gives up, second efforts are great. Provides a contest in the ruck. Excellent team and club man.

Cant see any change from that at his age and level of experience. In my mind is now our most expendable decent player but not sure we would get much for him and it almost certainly would not be enough to justify losing a Carlton man of his calibre.

 

[Jimmae]

Phillips has only played 30 games of senior footy and on output isn't that far behind Kreuz, with ongoing concerns regarding Kreuzers durability it isn't unreasonable to see Phillips supplant Kreuz as first ruck.

I reckon Kreuzer has shown enough for those concerns to be all-but put to bed, and that Phillips is a shitty #2 option considering the only thing he can equal or better Kreuzer in (leap) he can't even use to his advantage (taps to adv, centre clearance wins for team).

I want a new option to develop, rather than roll the dice with Phillips' hamstrings, which look to be a chronic problem for him.

 

[Neese]

Had a great 2015, but this year was so-so. At least he stayed on the park.

If 2016 is as good as it gets then I'm afraid he'll be in the sanfl before long.

Norwood please

 

[branedotorg]

I reckon Kreuzer has shown enough for those concerns to be all-but put to bed, and that Phillips is a shitty #2 option considering the only thing he can equal or better Kreuzer in (leap) he can't even use to his advantage (taps to adv, centre clearance wins for team).

I want a new option to develop, rather than roll the dice with Phillips' hamstrings, which look to be a chronic problem for him.

i'd add set shot kicking to phillips too for what it's worth

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Kreuzer is a role player at best nowadays

 

[BlueJet]

I reckon Kreuzer has shown enough for those concerns to be all-but put to bed, and that Phillips is a shitty #2 option considering the only thing he can equal or better Kreuzer in (leap) he can't even use to his advantage (taps to adv, centre clearance wins for team).

I want a new option to develop, rather than roll the dice with Phillips' hamstrings, which look to be a chronic problem for him.

1 year injury free isn't enough to allay fears regarding his durability especially if you're going to use injury to downplay Phillips.
As stated with Phillips, for a bloke who has only played 30 games of senior footy, there isn't that big a gap between the two of them.
Whether it's Phillips, Kreuz or someone else we're crying out for somebody who can give first use and take the occasional mark around the ground.
Fingers crossed that we pick up a young bloke to develop..

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[thylacine60]

Hawthorn would have turned him into Greg Dear by now.

 

[LanceRomance]

I love Kreuz but it is clear injuries have cruelled him.
That damned ACL.....

 

[Jimmae]

1 year injury free isn't enough to allay fears regarding his durability especially if you're going to use injury to downplay Phillips.
As stated with Phillips, for a bloke who has only played 30 games of senior footy, there isn't that big a gap between the two of them.
Whether it's Phillips, Kreuz or someone else we're crying out for somebody who can give first use and take the occasional mark around the ground.
Fingers crossed that we pick up a young bloke to develop..

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That first 12-18 months back are the biggest hurdle, by far, and he has barely put a foot wrong. Forced to share game time, and his footy suffered, but by the end of the year he was improving in the very things you're asking for from him.

Might even go so far as to say his contested marking was career best form.

And again, with Phillips, he's had hamstring problems for years, and he's clearly lost a significant amount of pace because of it.

I mean he pinged his hamstring launching a long kick for a goal FFS. It's not like this the 90s and he's a bit lazy on his conditioning; he's clearly very lean and prepares well, so it's safe to say his hamstrings are royally ****ed.

He loses virtually every foot race he's in while with us, regularly sidestepped, and he can't get to enough contests through the middle of the ground. Not even reliable when you kick it on his head in the forward line. The way some of you rave about his efforts up forward seems akin to watching starving people enjoy a mouldy cracker: they're just happy to eat for once.

 

[juzza316]

Remember that game against Port (2008?) where he kicked 3 goals in the last half and we stole the game! how good did he look then!? Never has came on in line with expectations, injury has had a fair bit to do with that.
Imagine we went Cotchin instead of Kreuzer, might have meant we kept Jacobs ? Imagine a midfield a year or two ago of Judd, Cotchin, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps!

 

[ferrisb]

Remember that game against Port (2008?) where he kicked 3 goals in the last half and we stole the game! how good did he look then!? Never has came on in line with expectations, injury has had a fair bit to do with that.
Imagine we went Cotchin instead of Kreuzer, might have meant we kept Jacobs ? Imagine a midfield a year or two ago of Judd, Cotchin, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps!

That was good, but Kreuz vs Syd (2nd game back from reco?) was better!

Taps, marks, tackles, ~25 touches, linking play, everything. The perfect all-round mobile ruckman match IMO.

I feel that's what he was capable of, but will never replicate due to his body.

Such a shame. He will never sustain the heights we expected and saw glimpses of. But I know he will give as much as he can every time he steps out there.

 

[Jimmae]

It's incredibly clear that pace is an issue for a bloke, and I say this relative to other rucks. I don't want him to be incredible, I just want him to not look like he's got hinges where his joints should be, or at least get from A to B at an AFL standard for a ruck.

Only happened in one game this year and nothing else he does has resulted in a positive gain for the club. They gave the 2-ruck system a go and it failed (Hawks have essentially given theirs up by getting Vickery); they gave Phillips a run and he didn't improve his output.

Happy for him to have another crack at it this year but come round 1, if his NAB form is the same stuff, I'm going to be disappointed should he be selected. Likely to spend most of the year in the VFL at this stage.

Here's hoping we pick up a ruck like Olango and develop.



*Mod edit

 

[DaVillaBlues]

That first 12-18 months back are the biggest hurdle, by far, and he has barely put a foot wrong. Forced to share game time, and his footy suffered, but by the end of the year he was improving in the very things you're asking for from him.

Might even go so far as to say his contested marking was career best form.

And again, with Phillips, he's had hamstring problems for years, and he's clearly lost a significant amount of pace because of it.

I mean he pinged his hamstring launching a long kick for a goal FFS. It's not like this the 90s and he's a bit lazy on his conditioning; he's clearly very lean and prepares well, so it's safe to say his hamstrings are royally stuffed.

He loses virtually every foot race he's in while with us, regularly sidestepped, and he can't get to enough contests through the middle of the ground. Not even reliable when you kick it on his head in the forward line. The way some of you rave about his efforts up forward seems akin to watching starving people enjoy a mouldy cracker: they're just happy to eat for once.

Sounds like a Doctor Nick Riviera diagnosis about Phillips, how do you know his hammies are stuffed ?

And he sealed the win for us against the first game against Essendon, for what we paid for him, Phillips has given us pretty solid service/value for money.

And as for foward line kicking, Kruezer isn't exactly a reliable Peter Hudson type either, so why don't you get off big Sauce's back and give him a chance ?

 

[Jimmae]

Sounds like a Doctor Nick Riviera diagnosis about Phillips, how do you know his hammies are stuffed ?

http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/116464/Andrew-PHILLIPS

Out for the entire 2013 season due to a hamstring issue, then had back and hamstring issues to contend with in 2014 and 2015 that saw his form dip.

And he sealed the win for us against the first game against Essendon, for what we paid for him, Phillips has given us pretty solid service/value for money.

Not disputing the second point here, but the first is the exact moment he pinged his hamstring this year.

And as for foward line kicking, Kruezer isn't exactly a reliable Peter Hudson type either, so why don't you get off big Sauce's back and give him a chance ?

I don't rate either of them as a forward option, that's the weakest possible argument you can throw up in favour of one or the other.

No one is writing him off, I just don't think he's AFL material at this point. Things can change, but if I'm right, it'll take a miracle. Nothing we've seen so far gives the opposing argument much of a shake. Hell at this point, I'd be happy with more intelligent tap work.

 

[La Dispute]

The game has neither passed him by nor will he ever be the star ruckman he was projected to be as a junior. He is somewhere in ruckman limbo.

I was an advocate for trading him last season, and felt that we'd get some value, should he pursue a move. Fortunately (an unfortunately), he is a loyal Carlton man and he'll play out his career in the Navy Blue; however long that may be.

I think in playing him as the number one ruck last season, we somewhat stifled the development of Phillips and never allowed him the opportunity of wrenching the number 1 spot for himself. I'm skeptical of how great Phillips' ceiling is, but I suspect that he's been unlucky in that he spent his first years at GWS developing, then when he was ready to go, GWS procured Mumford. Had he secured the number 1 spot, he'd be a much better ruckman today.

Counterintuitively, the modern game doesn't possess scores of star ruckman. The grand-finalists both got by with a middling ruck each. From this perspective, it's possible for Kreuz to have an extended run at it. I just don't rate the two ruck setup and have been advocating using Casboult as the rotational 2nd stringer. McKay may develop in a similar fashion.

It's worth persisting with Kreuzer; he may just improve on last season, but I think it's more than likely he'll plateau and then peter out.