Opinion Kreuz - A new dawn or dusk fast approaching?

[Soapy V]

I think his use in tandem with Phillips is a good strategy. They are different players and that makes them harder to match up on.

I'm the opposite. Don't like the 2 Ruck strategy at all. Leaves us with less flexibility and almost a liability. Most good sides are either playing One ruck and a back up or almost part time rucks. Look at the Bulldogs this year. Hawks similar at times. It's why they chased Vickery

Personally I want to see Phillips or Kruezer supported by Rowe or Gorringe

 

[Azul]

Personally I want to see Phillips or Kruezer supported by Rowe or Gorringe

Personally I want to see Phillips supported by McKay.

 

[Deep Blue]

Unless kruez has a breakout 2017 then I think unfortunately there is zero chance of getting a top 20 pick.

We may have to keep him for another year or two until either big Harry comes on or phillips improves dramatically.

I'd prefer Big Harry as a pure forward, as a functioning forward set-up is our main priority now - maybe minimal ruck-time (chop-out only) a fair bit further down the track. Only just stopped growing and stress fractures in his back need to be managed; Korcheck is a big strong mature body! Ruck can be very punishing on a young body; Goldstein and Jacobs have managed to play the role of full-time ruckman very well - good around the ground (especially Goldstein) and very durable but they are exceptions!

 

[Soapy V]

Personally I want to see Phillips supported by McKay.

Not for a while if at all. Kid is a genuine star forward but very young. Let him settle before throwing him in the ruck

 

[Deep Blue]

Kreuzer, effort A+, commitment can never be questioned but in my opinion was always just undersized for a ruckman and then did a knee and lost a little spring and timing on his marking, given the size and athleticism of players on the way up I fear for kreuz but he will fight and scrap and give it his all and that will be enough until we can find or develop a better option.

Yeah, as far as height goes I have always questioned Kreuz's listing of 200cm - reckon 198cm more like it; clubs looking at 204cm+ ruckmen now. Kreuz also lost a lot of his spring after the knee injury; he's up against it in many ways!

 

[Azul]

Not for a while if at all. Kid is a genuine star forward but very young. Let him settle before throwing him in the ruck

I thought he had shown promise in the ruck at U18 level? His highlights package had him doing boundary throw-ins.

I mean I'd expect him to spend 85% time up forward but give him a taste if he's eager enough.

I see him as a coordinated version of one of my favourite players of the previous decade, Adrian De Luca.

 

[Manchego Cheese]

Nine years removed from his selection, and with acknowledgement of his many injury issues, I'm confident in saying Kreuz might never have been the player we thought or hoped he'd become.

I think we've landed a fine footballer, but one well short of the status we imagined.

 

[gbatman]

Kreuzer isn't overly tall like a lot of ruckmen out there and hasn't got a great leap yet he's not that bad. Watching Gorringe ruck last year, now that's bad. I don't know that Phillips is a whole lot better in center bounces. Kreuzer has good size about him and is good rucking around the ground when he can engage the other ruckman. Phillips just struggles in this area. Phillips for mine seems light in the mid/lower half of his body which will improve with age but makes him easily up ended and off balanced. Key defenders are always going to have an easy time nudging these two blokes and putting them out of position.

Then you get Casboult who is solid through the legs and core and he's tough to shift. Casboult is just 3CM shorter than Kreuzer and seems to win a lot of his ruck contests, we're using him wrong. I actually think if we got in a situation like The Bulldogs did in the preliminary final where we lost a ruck and Casboult became number one ruck that we might actually be better off. I think that a tide will turn when teams look for a ruck who can actually play football than just be a tall guy who jumps at the ball and stays out of the way more or less. Casboult can play football but he needs to be let loose and get fit. Tom Boyd in the prelim final and grand final is a prime example of what having a ruckman who can play football can do for a side. Teams will look for that. It just comes down to a compromise, lose less center taps and have an extra footballer around the ground or win center taps and be a man short in general play. It's probably too hard to find a first ruck that can do it all, win taps (27+), average near 15 possessions and kick a goal a game. You're taking Dean Cox, Todd Goldstein or Max Gawn at their best. Easier to nail down a good second ruck I think. Just what makes a good first ruck is debatable but I think it starts with hitouts, then comes marks and goals and possessions then comes second efforts, tackles, one percenters.

At this stage we're ok with rucks but I think we should be looking to find one. I think the time to trade Kreuzer has probably passed as it's clear he wont be a top liner. Once there was a time when we overrated him and other clubs may have as well and have expected big things and we may have got overs for him. I think unless someone offers us a good deal he may as well stay. Phillips is good enough to hold down the number one ruck spot but he's not going to be a great either I wouldn't suspect anyway. They are good ruckmen and we need depth, if a young guy comes up and we get an opportunity to take him and we aren't missing out on other types of quality players then we should pick one up, we're probably running with bare minimum rucks at the moment.

 

[Nori]

If he took that many contested marks a game, he'd also be the greatest mark of all time statistically.

Okay, lets say 2-3 then. I'm sure you get my point. He needs to hold his marks if he's to step it up.

 

[Nori]

I'm pretty sure if you asked the WBs and the Hawks if they would have preferred to play a specialist Ruck they would have absolutely played 1 or 2. But you can't play what you don't have.

Playing specialist forwards in the Ruck just exposes them to unnecessary injury and you don't get full value in the ball ups or in front of goals.

 

[ShanDog]

Okay, lets say 2-3 then. I'm sure you get my point. He needs to hold his marks if he's to step it up.

Yeah I do understand what you're saying and agree - his marking can definitely be improved. I don't think his tap work has been up to scratch either, but probably has a lot to do with physical issues which I hope he has sorted out now.

 

[branedotorg]

It's a long shot but I'm hoping Gorringe steps up and can play Ruck. It's his best role and can also go forward. No doubt about his athleticism and as a junior looked a star. If he can play to his ability he could be our Blicavs.

Blicavs doesn't really play as a ruck much anymore, more of a tall rover/wingman who takes the bounce if no one else is there.

Zac Smith did most of the ruck work this year

 

[Jimmae]

Blicavs doesn't really play as a ruck much anymore, more of a tall rover/wingman who takes the bounce if no one else is there.

Zac Smith did most of the ruck work this year

He leads the competition in 3rd man up efforts, by a fair way too.

 

[branedotorg]

He leads the competition in 3rd man up efforts, by a fair way too.

although between what you and i said it would probably fit gorringe far better than 'pure ruck'.

still doubt he'll make it, pity, he's got the tools

 

[Jimmae]

although between what you and i said it would probably fit gorringe far better than 'pure ruck'.

still doubt he'll make it, pity, he's got the tools

I think his best bet is as a forward because he doesn't have the body to handle most clearance contests. Body work needs to improve, but he'll never be that 105+ kg guy that accumulates hitouts.

 

[harrisendblue]

Kruez for me is a pure ruck / ruck rover who has never been a great mark simply i think because of his hands. I can never remember him being a pure one grabber. His only hope is for continuity and the ability to increase his training loads so that he blows up the other rucks. we should forget totally the notion that he will ever be a forward of note.

Of the rest Phillips is really the only other one with potential but he too needs to be the no 1 to unlock that.

Gorringe i just dont rate as a ruck and for that matter a forward because he lacks physicality.

Korchek must do something this year when he will 25 other wise he should be gone. So really we probably need a young rookie ruck this year especially if we let harry settle as a forward.

Whilst this may seem a worry it provides the opportunity to develop that hawthorn model of not spending a lot on their rucks.

As always i really hope to be proven wrong with those i currently dont rate and will claim credit that my sledge inspired them should they make it

 

[Jimmae]

Now that it's been brought up a few times: since when does Kreuzer have an issue with aerobic capacity? He has blown up other rucks since day 1, but he needs to be given licence to do it.

The things people talk themselves into on football forums sometimes...

 

[Broadside]

Now that it's been brought up a few times: since when does Kreuzer have an issue with aerobic capacity? He has blown up other rucks since day 1, but he needs to be given licence to do it.

The things people talk themselves into on football forums sometimes...

I know he was considered to have the tank of a midfielder when drafted but if he is blowing up other rucks why doesn't he get a lot more possessions round the ground? why isn't he getting a lot more marks (uncontested) in the forward line because his opponent can't stay with him?

 

[Jimmae]

I know he was considered to have the tank of a midfielder when drafted but if he is blowing up other rucks why doesn't he get a lot more possessions round the ground? why isn't he getting a lot more marks (uncontested) in the forward line because his opponent can't stay with him?

In classic BF terms

Possessions = trust + endurance + role + confidence + nous

Also, he's above average off the mark for a ruck, but not for a tall forward, and the running requirements for midfield roles tends to sap you of your repeat efforts when resting up forward.

 

[harrisendblue]

Now that it's been brought up a few times: since when does Kreuzer have an issue with aerobic capacity? He has blown up other rucks since day 1, but he needs to be given licence to do it.

The things people talk themselves into on football forums sometimes...

Since his foot inquiries i reckon he doesn't run as hard as he did previously.

Especially with his foot issues his training loads would be tightly monitored and in all likelihood reduced to ensure no recurrence. Its for this reason that i really hope he can have continuity in his pre season so that gradually his tank improves and gets back to what it was.

Its not a matter of having license to do it rather its his physical capacity.

.

 

[thylacine60]

Not for a while if at all. Kid is a genuine star forward but very young. Let him settle before throwing him in the ruck

Star forward? Ease up.

 

[Jimmae]

Its not a matter of having license to do it rather its his physical capacity.

.

It's a matter of both but I take your point, I simply disagree about where his body is at, especially when you can regularly spot these moments over the last season and a half:




He plays the game very differently to most rucks that stay out there the whole time; he is relentless in how much he'll try to be involved when the ball's in his area.

 

[Tambourine]

Unless kruez has a breakout 2017 then I think unfortunately there is zero chance of getting a top 20 pick.

We may have to keep him for another year or two until either big Harry comes on or phillips improves dramatically.

Richmond got pick 27 for vickery. Kreuzer is better than vickery and i think a late first round pick would be reached.

 

[harrisendblue]

Richmond got pick 27 for vickery. Kreuzer is better than vickery and i think a late first round pick would be reached.

Yes i agree kruez is better than vickery however you cant automatically take his trade as an automatic guide.

The vickery deal was/is clouded with suspicions the hawks deliberately increased his contract so that tiggies would get a compensation pick.

From the aspect of his trade worth my worry is that pies had him if not for the medical and i think even the bullies did a medical on him which indicates inherent medical issues we arn't aware.

I still stand by the earlier comment that he needs a huge 2017 if we want a reasonable trade return.

 

[Manchego Cheese]

Yes i agree kruez is better than vickery however you cant automatically take his trade as an automatic guide.

The vickery deal was/is clouded with suspicions the hawks deliberately increased his contract so that tiggies would get a compensation pick.

From the aspect of his trade worth my worry is that pies had him if not for the medical and i think even the bullies did a medical on him which indicates inherent medical issues we arn't aware.

I still stand by the earlier comment that he needs a huge 2017 if we want a reasonable trade return.

The time to trade Kreuz has come and gone.

If we manage him right - and he finally gets some luck with his body - we'll have a serviceable player who does a role, works hard, sets a good example etc.