News Kreuz appointed Ruck Coach

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Blues of 77

Draftee
Aug 27, 2018
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Didn’t all of Buckley, Voss, Hird take on a senior role without any experience?

We’re not even talking about a line coach here.

There is a massive difference.
Beautifully said. And how did each of those work out? Even Buckley took 10 years to reach any semblance of success.

You seem to assert it's best to exemplify the difference between those roles and the one Kruez is filling. But the better question is whether he is the right ruck coach for the club....
 

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Blues of 77

Draftee
Aug 27, 2018
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You seem adamant he isn’t. Why?

What do you know of his coaching ability vs that if anyone else who was considered for the role?
I'm not confident you're asking the right question, with all due respect. I would have thought it was self evident he has no professional coaching experience and I contrast that against the many coaches that do. Surely our remit should be the best coach possible for our current players, not the most recent ruck player who has retired from the club (and please don't misinterpret my posts - I loved watching Kruez and loved his dedication to our club, but I don't think that is the right criteria for a ruck coach).
 

BigBreakfast

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I'm not confident you're asking the right question, with all due respect. I would have thought it was self evident he has no professional coaching experience and I contrast that against the many coaches that do. Surely our remit should be the best coach possible for our current players, not the most recent ruck player who has retired from the club (and please don't misinterpret my posts - I loved watching Kruez and loved his dedication to our club, but I don't think that is the right criteria for a ruck coach).
What would that criteria be? Clever articulation of perspective does not constitute an imperial, evidence based conclusion.

Evidence:

* played a significant career at the highest level against the best (189 over 12 years)
* time on the sideline afforded him the opportunity to grow and learn
* on ball capacity affords the opportunity to teach around the ground, contested style (averaged almost 7 contested possessions p/g)
* intelligent man who limits communication only to that which needs voicing.
 

Jeremias

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Sep 26, 2004
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I'm not confident you're asking the right question, with all due respect. I would have thought it was self evident he has no professional coaching experience and I contrast that against the many coaches that do. Surely our remit should be the best coach possible for our current players, not the most recent ruck player who has retired from the club (and please don't misinterpret my posts - I loved watching Kruez and loved his dedication to our club, but I don't think that is the right criteria for a ruck coach).
Right, so now it is all about experience.

Why is experience more important than quality?
 

Blues of 77

Draftee
Aug 27, 2018
12
44
AFL Club
Carlton
What would that criteria be? Clever articulation of perspective does not constitute an imperial, evidence based conclusion.

Evidence:

* played a significant career at the highest level against the best (189 over 12 years)
* time on the sideline afforded him the opportunity to grow and learn
* on ball capacity affords the opportunity to teach around the ground, contested style (averaged almost 7 contested possessions p/g)
* intelligent man who limits communication only to that which needs voicing.
Right, so now it is all about experience.

Why is experience more important than quality?
I would have thought there is a simple answer to that. Generally, experience in a role gives rise to quality. Experience in a related but incomparable role (e.g. Player vs coach) doesn't necessarily. I'm not sure how you can suggest Kruez will be a quality ruck coach with no objective evidence.
 

Jeremias

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I would have thought there is a simple answer to that. Generally, experience in a role gives rise to quality. Experience in a related but incomparable role (e.g. Player vs coach) doesn't necessarily. I'm not sure how you can suggest Kruez will be a quality ruck coach with no objective evidence.
Where have I said he will be a quality ruck coach?
 

The Smoking Gun

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For Kruez, it would be better for him to get experience outside the club rather than continuing in the same environment as an apparent favour post career (e.g. Voss, Hird, Buckley etc).
For the club, we had Kruez there last year and the previous 10. Surely an outside view is needed at some point. Perhaps a very experienced and successful ruck like Dean Cox. It's (almost) never been successful for a recently retired player to add anything for the club they've retired from.
Frankly, very hard to see this as anything other than an appointment of a past player.
I absolutely love Kreuzer & Simmo, but like you, I do think both smack of "jobs for the boys" type appointments. Also like you, I think they'd be better off in another environment for a couple of years to expand their knowledge-base & skillsets and then return as more rounded coaching appointments. That way they come back with new ideas and elements to both challenge Teague mentally to think outside the square and refine/modify/improve/expand the game plan.

As noted by the replies you've received to your post, views outside of general "group think" are generally not welcome here, which is a pity because if people encompassed a wider scope of thought it might lead to better discussion.
 

BigBreakfast

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I would have thought there is a simple answer to that. Generally, experience in a role gives rise to quality. Experience in a related but incomparable role (e.g. Player vs coach) doesn't necessarily. I'm not sure how you can suggest Kruez will be a quality ruck coach with no objective evidence.
But there is objective evidence, his playing career and personality. He is not taking up a head coaching role, just supporting his knowledge base. Learning also gives rise to growth, often from mistakes. I’m sure he, like all of us, will make some mistakes and learn from them. By your rationale, no new, untried coach should ever be taken on because there is no evidence of their capacity to succeed!
 

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BigBreakfast

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I absolutely love Kreuzer & Simmo, but like you, I do think both smack of "jobs for the boys" type appointments. Also like you, I think they'd be better off in another environment for a couple of years to expand their knowledge-base & skillsets and then return as more rounded coaching appointments. That way they come back with new ideas and elements to both challenge Teague mentally to think outside the square and refine/modify/improve/expand the game plan.

As noted by the replies you've received to your post, views outside of general "group think" are generally not welcome here, which is a pity because if people encompassed a wider scope of thought it might lead to better discussion.
What a load of rubbish. I object to the sentiment that he shouldn’t get a gig because there is no evidence he will succeed. We are talking about two development roles, not feet to the fire roles.
 

thylacine60

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I absolutely love Kreuzer & Simmo, but like you, I do think both smack of "jobs for the boys" type appointments. Also like you, I think they'd be better off in another environment for a couple of years to expand their knowledge-base & skillsets and then return as more rounded coaching appointments. That way they come back with new ideas and elements to both challenge Teague mentally to think outside the square and refine/modify/improve/expand the game plan.

As noted by the replies you've received to your post, views outside of general "group think" are generally not welcome here, which is a pity because if people encompassed a wider scope of thought it might lead to better discussion.
you mean discussions where posters don't label a group of similar minded contributors as 'group think'? those type of better discussions?
 

Elmer_Judd

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Kreuzer in the few times I was lucky to meet him, was quietly spoken, but honestly had one of the sharpest, switched on minds of any player I have ever hear speak.

And yes, it can me argued to some degree that this appointment is nostalgic, but let's me honest, he is too good to be lost to the AFL system, and it would make me puke to see him in non Navy Blue colours.

 

Blue Bloods

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Kreuzer in the few times I was lucky to meet him, was quietly spoken, but honestly had one of the sharpest, switched on minds of any player I have ever hear speak.

And yes, it can me argued to some degree that this appointment is nostalgic, but let's me honest, he is too good to be lost to the AFL system, and it would make me puke to see him in non Navy Blue colours.

I 100% agree with this post, my last dog was named Kruz, so no lack of love, but wouldn't most his knowledge already be know to TDK and Pitto.

Wouldn't mind the best available ruck coach now and Kruezer comes back in a few years with more to teach.
 

BigFrizz36

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Mar 20, 2017
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So if I'm reading it correctly no-one who has never coached before should be able to coach because they have shown no success at something that they have never done before?

Be interested to have someone name who they consider to be the best ruck coaches going round off the top of their heads. Not to many oll off the tongue.

Great appointment. The bloke is well respected by those he will be coaching and appears to be keen to embrace and develop the role.
 

HARKER

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Oct 15, 2008
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Keeping the losing culture around the club. Why just why. Next it’ll be Murphy as midfield coach.
Ever watched Kreuzer train? He's not a loser......anything but a loser. :)

Just because Kreuzer wasn't he best tap ruckman himself, doesn't mean to say he doesn't know what's required.

No need to worry. This is a good appointment by the club.
 

Coona Blues

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Nov 3, 2011
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just a question, has kreuz ruck-coached a single day yet?
In a word. YES. Fulfilled the role, unofficially last season after Covid coaching cuts, and don't ask me to find the couple of articles that alluded to it.
Nothing in the press release, but I would assume that it is a part time role. Cap cuts would not permit a full time dedicated ruck coach role, would
be surprised if he is not "dabbling" in some kind of earthworks role alluded to in his preparation for post footy career. Was suggested he may go in to a mining position, but Covid travel questions may be making this impractical with a young family.
 
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