L Angwin

[Mong]

Originally posted by DaveW
Any chance you can debate this properly rather than getting all moralistic on me?

Gee I didn't know I wasn't debating this properly. Is that because you don't agree with my opinions?

Carey didn't steal valued possesions away from others.

Depends what you class as valued possessions. What exactly did Angwin steal that was so valued? Compare that to stealing the trust and friendship from his wife and his team mate and I think you are underestimating what the loss must have been for Anthony and Sally. Let me know if I'm wrong but I would suggest those things are a tad more valuable than a few material possessions. You make it sound like he stole a $million.

Carey didn't put others lives in danger.

Well as I said earlier I hadn't realised that Angwin had done this. But he didn't kill anyone or hurt anyone did he? So now who's getting moralistic and talking hypotheticals? Still we will have to agree to disagree on this. You obviously put a higher priority on a few hundred dollars (was it even that much?) than I do if you think it even compares to the damage caused by an affair like that.


****

 

[Port01]

Originally posted by Jars458
Not all of them.

Not sure about you though. Is there any other explanation for some of your behaviour?

I did say 'not all' had disorders.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by ****

You obviously put a higher priority on a few hundred dollars (was it even that much?) than I do if you think it even compares to the damage caused by an affair like that.


****

A remarkable downplay of the effects of one side of the argument (Angwin's) while maximizing those of the other side of the argument (Carey's).

Without going into it all again, Carey had to leave the Roos as he had made the situation untenable. He has come to Adelaide and to the best of my knowledge is keeping his nose clean. Why should we chastise him and pillory him to death with stones as you seem to wish.

You refer to Angwin's offences as if they were petty. To betray your team-mates by thieving from them is a low-down act, and can totally unsettle a football club with the disappearance of trust.

They weren't his only offences as you now know, but you also make light of them too.

Add to that that he stole from team-mates and others once he was given a new start in life. Would you really want this man in your team as a team-mate?? I wouldn't.

If Angwin had come from Carlton to the Crows, but committing the same offences in the same order, I would not want him here, as it could only have a negative affect on team morale.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by ****
Gee I didn't know I wasn't debating this properly. Is that because you don't agree with my opinions?

You were getting all judgemental, that was totally unneccesary.

Depends what you class as valued possessions. What exactly did Angwin steal that was so valued? Compare that to stealing the trust and friendship from his wife and his team mate and I think you are underestimating what the loss must have been for Anthony and Sally. Let me know if I'm wrong but I would suggest those things are a tad more valuable than a few material possessions.

Those are some awfully far-reaching assumptions you make there.

I thought the saying went that you can choose your friends. Carey is perfectly entitled to choose what relationships he wants to create or is prepared to destroy.

You make it sound like he stole a $million.

You make it sound like he stole a loaf of bread to feed his starving family.

Well as I said earlier I hadn't realised that Angwin had done this. But he didn't kill anyone or hurt anyone did he? So now who's getting moralistic and talking hypotheticals?

Perhaps you might want to consider why there are laws against this.

Still we will have to agree to disagree on this. You obviously put a higher priority on a few hundred dollars (was it even that much?) than I do if you think it even compares to the damage caused by an affair like that.

You obviously don't put a high priority on abiding by the law.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by macca23
A remarkable downplay of the effects of one side of the argument (Angwin's) while maximizing those of the other side of the argument (Carey's).

Yes it is..... but isn't that the exact opposite of what many others here are doing? Maximising Angwins and downplaying Careys. And that is my point. I guess you could say I did it deliberately just to offer a different perspective.

Without going into it all again, Carey had to leave the Roos as he had made the situation untenable. He has come to Adelaide and to the best of my knowledge is keeping his nose clean. Why should we chastise him and pillory him to death with stones as you seem to wish.

Well I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I wish for that to happen. In fact in reality it is quite the opposite. I wish for both to be scrutinised less and for us to be more lenient on both of them. We all make mistakes. The law can deal with them, or in Carey's case his friends and family.

You refer to Angwin's offences as if they were petty.

I admit I don't see his thefts as being THAT big a deal, so yes I suppose I do. He broke the law and he should face whatever that brings him but that's about it.

To betray your team-mates by thieving from them is a low-down act, and can totally unsettle a football club with the disappearance of trust.

Are you talking about Angwin or Carey? It could be either in which case you've just provided evidence of what I'm talking about. It could be either yet you say it about Angwin in a negative way yet have more leniency on Carey. Make no mistake Carey's incident would be MORE unsettling on a football club than Angwins. Refer to your first comment "A remarkable downplay of the effects of one side of the argument while maximizing those of the other side of the argument".

They weren't his only offences as you now know, but you also make light of them too.

I definately have not made 'light' of any drink driving charges.

Add to that that he stole from team-mates and others once he was given a new start in life. Would you really want this man in your team as a team-mate?? I wouldn't.

I honestly don't know. It's a very hard judgement to make from this distance.

Anyway, this discussion is going no further and were treading old ground. I am happy to have leniency on Angwn, you guys can continue to hate. We'll leave it at that.

Thanks.


****


P.S. Dave W, I do have a high regard for the law and I definately think Angwin deserves whetever the law dished out to him. I also think there are some things in life that you can do that aren't punishable by law, yet are still worse than some things that are.

You ever had a speeding fine Dave? Are you a repeat offender? If you are do you deserve to be forgiven or are you a menace to society and shouldn't be trusted to be on the roads ever again? I hope you get the point of my sarcasm and don't take that literally.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by ****
... you guys can continue to hate. We'll leave it at that.

Who has mentioned "hate"? You're doing a fine job of making this up as you go along.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Who has mentioned "hate"?

SOME of you have displayed attributes of hate towards him over the last 12 months. I think that's fairly clear.

You're doing a fine job of making this up as you go along.

What have I made up? I am just giving my view.


****

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by ****
P.S. Dave W, I do have a high regard for the law and I definately think Angwin deserves whetever the law dished out to him. I also think there are some things in life that you can do that aren't punishable by law, yet are still worse than some things that are.

You ever had a speeding fine Dave? Are you a repeat offender? If you are do you deserve to be forgiven or are you a menace to society and shouldn't be trusted to be on the roads ever again? I hope you get the point of my sarcasm and don't take that literally.

I thought you were done.

I will take that literally and say I've never had a speeding fine.

I'd still be more surer of my speeding as opposed to that of a drink driver though. I think the vast difference in penalties in those two offences would reflect the seriousness of each.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by DaveW
I thought you were done.

I hadn't read your post I just wanted to add that little bit. Now I've changed my mind and I'm going to add more.

I will take that literally and say I've never had a speeding fine.

So you got away with it then.

I'd still be more surer of my speeding as opposed to that of a drink driver though. I think the vast difference in penalties in those two offences would reflect the seriousness of each. [/B]

Exactly. But both are against the law and both have the capability to put others lives at risk.

Can I ask you Dave W exactly what I asked Dyertribe? Would you be so critical of Angwin if he had stayed at the Crows and had the ability of Carey in his heyday?

Despite this conversation being continually taken away from the point I initially attempted to make, the MAIN reason behind the constant criticism of Angwin is based upon us wasting pick 7 on him. The other issues are just a vehicle for us to dump criticism on him. That's what I believe. And it is the same reason that Carlton fans feel such strong sympathy for him, because he plays for them.

Anyway, have a Merry Christmas all. This is definately my last comment on this because I am going home shortly.


****

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by ****

Anyway, have a Merry Christmas all. This is definately my last comment on this because I am going home shortly.


****

Fair enough. Nothing wrong with a good debate.

Have a great Christmas, and NO drink-driving or having a crack at someone's missus.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by dyertribe

Of course I would be. I'm also a supporter of Newcastle United in England. We currently have Kieron Dyer, Lee Bowyer and Jonathon Woodgate in our squad.

Dyer has been done for drink-drive and crashed his car into the Tyne bridge as well as being regularly linked with other assorted off-field misdemeanours - I'm sick of his off-field antics and would like to see him sold.

Bowyer and Woodgate were the footballers who while at Leeds United were charged with assaulting that Asian student in a racially-motivated attack. Woodgate has shown nothing but remorse in the time since, has admitted his errors and has completed his community service and fines. He's made a serious effort to turn his life around and he's stopped going out on the town. Good on him.

The signing of Bowyer on the other hand I completely disagreed with. He fought the initial charges, then refused to accept the fine Leeds imposed on him for bringing the club into disrepute. He also came to us under a 6-game UEFA ban for tap-dancing on the head of an opponent.

Regarding Carey vs Angwin, I totally agree with you. Only a moron would compare the 2 - for a start carey did not steal anything. Who is to say what happened there, other than it happens often, and kelli stevens has gotten off scott free.
There is no crime to society committed by wayne carey, the same CANNOT be said by Angwin. A bad egg is a bad egg, and the moralistic do gooders who want to feel better about themselves by pointing to some denouement and resolution with Laurence should just keep their views to themselves. I was going to be far ruder, but it's christmas

Regarding the above however, there are a couple of corrections to be made.

yes woodgate is sorry, beauce he was F****** guilty. he did it, he committed the assault, he was the main perpetrator- he has a lot to show remorse for. he has an alcohol issue, that sends him a bit barmy. A nice guy when sober by all accounts.

For all Bowyer's faults, he should not be remorseful - he was not involved. he was a spectator 50 paces behind play. that's what the court found and everyone at leeds united were aware of, that's why he was so dirty. He was implicated because of his past and because he was thereabouts. there never was any evidence actually connecting him to these assaults.

as they say, mud sticks.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by ****


P.S. Dave W, I do have a high regard for the law and I definately think Angwin deserves whetever the law dished out to him. I also think there are some things in life that you can do that aren't punishable by law, yet are still worse than some things that are.

get over yourself.
if you want to preach so sanctimoniously move to utah. FFS.

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

I can't beleive we are still prattling on about this loser

the sooner we forget about him - the better

k
xx

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
I can't beleive we are still prattling on about this loser

the sooner we forget about him - the better

k
xx

Couldn't agree more kb.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by ****
Can I ask you Dave W exactly what I asked Dyertribe? Would you be so critical of Angwin if he had stayed at the Crows and had the ability of Carey in his heyday?

Despite this conversation being continually taken away from the point I initially attempted to make, the MAIN reason behind the constant criticism of Angwin is based upon us wasting pick 7 on him. The other issues are just a vehicle for us to dump criticism on him. That's what I believe. And it is the same reason that Carlton fans feel such strong sympathy for him, because he plays for them.

I never heard about Angwin's exploits before he left the Crows, just as his exploits at Carlton have been attemped to be kept a little hush hush despite the media's insistence on digging up the dirt.

You protect your players or you get rid of them. It's only natural. Carlton fans privately state that what Angwin did to Norman was a low act but publicly we support the club and recognise his talent and are hoping that he turns over a new leaf and becomes a star for us. I am pretty sure all football clubs are teeming with stories about arseh*le players but for the most part the stories are kept inhouse until the player has gone and the club is no longer affected by it. So Crows fans have probably harboured some feelings towards Angwin until such a time as it is appropriate to vent them without hurting the AFC. There are a few though that will bag any player that leaves using any ammunition that they have purely because of the sense of loss. Much like the draft rumours where supporters tear apart a seemingly departing player only to have to retract it when the player re-signs.

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
I never heard about Angwin's exploits before he left the Crows, just as his exploits at Carlton have been attemped to be kept a little hush hush despite the media's insistence on digging up the dirt.

You protect your players or you get rid of them. It's only natural. Carlton fans privately state that what Angwin did to Norman was a low act but publicly we support the club and recognise his talent and are hoping that he turns over a new leaf and becomes a star for us. I am pretty sure all football clubs are teeming with stories about arseh*le players but for the most part the stories are kept inhouse until the player has gone and the club is no longer affected by it. So Crows fans have probably harboured some feelings towards Angwin until such a time as it is appropriate to vent them without hurting the AFC. There are a few though that will bag any player that leaves using any ammunition that they have purely because of the sense of loss. Much like the draft rumours where supporters tear apart a seemingly departing player only to have to retract it when the player re-signs.

no he deserves all that he is getting. I don't feel sorry for him - he is a distant memorey.

k
xx

 

[macca23]

A good long-time friend of mine is part of the Port Adelaide recruiting team. In conversation this week, the topic of Angwin came up, and he stated that he thought it was unbelievable that the Crows had drafted Angwin, because if they had no inkling as to Angwin's character, 15 other teams most certainly did.

He rates it as one of the bigget modern day drafting blunders given the intelligence that clubs have at their disposal.

On the topic as to why Will Gayfer wasn't even rookie listed let alond drafted this year, when he was being touted widely as a top 20 draft pick, he stated that he wasn't responsible for Victorian intelligence but that it would have to be non-footy related.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by macca23
A good long-time friend of mine is part of the Port Adelaide recruiting team. In conversation this week, the topic of Angwin came up, and he stated that he thought it was unbelievable that the Crows had drafted Angwin, because if they had no inkling as to Angwin's character, 15 other teams most certainly did.

He rates it as one of the bigget modern day drafting blunders given the intelligence that clubs have at their disposal.

On the topic as to why Will Gayfer wasn't even rookie listed let alond drafted this year, when he was being touted widely as a top 20 draft pick, he stated that he wasn't responsible for Victorian intelligence but that it would have to be non-footy related.

Macca,
no one will disagree Angwin was/is a headcase, and the pick went south.

Consider though that we claim to be mislead, I wonder what that actually involves?
Most of all though, it was a rubbish draft, he has more talent than anyone else available to us, and we swung for the fences.
We wouldn't be that much better off drafting K. Cornes or whoever.

Maybe the lesson will have done us some good?

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone

Maybe the lesson will have done us some good?

I'm sure that it has.

That was another point that he also made - he didn't think that any of the 16 clubs would ever take such a gamble again no matter how much the natural ability of an otherwise potential draftee.