Labour party has gone full socialist

[Kwality]

Well would rather the country head to social democratic model of the Nordic countries as opposed to the American model that the current Liberal party have been following

Cant we just make our own way?

I've got a problem with those who have a box for everything, grab someone else's thingo !! We arent Yanks, we arent Nordic ....

 

[Kwality]

That you can do anything and have everything is the greatest and ultimately most damaging myth sold to young women.

Sold that message to my girls & they thank me for the support/message today. They do have a realistic understanding of the concepts/reality that underpin the message.
My folks sold a similar message with an underlying 'you will only get out of it what you put into it' & I passed that on.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yes I did. You clearly dont understand the answer. Socialism is theft unless it prooves that low income workers are underpaid. Not only did I explain they are not underpaid but as a result of our progressive tax redistribution system I suggested they are overpaid. Even without any progressive tax system you can argue they are overpaid given wages go up when there is more and better capital to use. So yes our system has theft from the capital creators and high income earners to the low income earners and poor.


I think low income earners should be overpaid to a degree for utilitarian purposes. I.e. I actually advocate some theft as the marginal utility gains of an extra dollar for low income earners is greater then those with lots of wealth (many will disagree with me on this point and call me a socialist). Despite my advocacy for this I still know its theft. Socialists take the theft to a whole other level and make it rampant and extreme.

Gee mate, the only thing missing from your little rant is Margaret Thatcher's mind-bogglingly stupid declaration that "The only problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples' money".

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What are your thoughts on the premise that money is a substitute for work, allowing you to trade your work for the work of others that allows society to specialise their abilities and not all spend our time hunting and gathering?

I find it an unremarkable statement.

To then extrapolate from that unremarkable statement that socialism is stealing from the hard work of others, is laughable.

 

[Kwality]

Gee mate, the only thing missing from your little rant is Margaret Thatcher's mind-bogglingly stupid declaration that "The only problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples' money".

Any 'ism' is unhinged at the extreme: capitalism, communism, socialism ...

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Cant we just make our own way?

I've got a problem with those who have a box for everything, grab someone else's thingo !! We arent Yanks, we arent Nordic ....

Well that's kinda what the Nordics do. Take what they see as the best bits from capitalism and what they see as the best bits from socialism.

Not that you'll ever get Seeds to grasp that. Anyone proceeding from the premise that socialism is theft by definition is not remotely interested in getting to the nub of a topic.

 

[its free real estate]

The Nordic states are effectively monocultures with populations little more than that of Sydney. As useful a comparison as Singapore or Hong Kong.

 

[Taylor]

Did they nationalise the oil?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The Nordic states are effectively monocultures with populations little more than that of Sydney. As useful a comparison as Singapore or Hong Kong.

How is that relevant?

 

[its free real estate]

How is that relevant?

What works in Nordic states has zero application here, just as what works in Singapore has zero application here.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What works in Nordic states has zero application here, just as what works in Singapore has zero application here.

But you haven’t explained why.

I wasn’t aware there were thresholds of population or monoculture beyond which a political system didn’t work. Do go on.

The US is about 15 times the population of Australia. Does that mean we shouldn’t adopt free market capitalism?

 

[its free real estate]

But you haven’t explained why.

I wasn’t aware there were thresholds of population or monoculture beyond which a political system didn’t work. Do go on.

The US is about 15 times the population of Australia. Does that mean we shouldn’t adopt free market capitalism?

Well if the Nordic system is on the table - why not the Singaporean? Or Japanese? Each have higher living standards, level of education and wealth than the Nordic countries.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Well if the Nordic system is on the table - why not the Singaporean? Or Japanese? Each have higher living standards, level of education and wealth than the Nordic countries.

No disagreement here. (Although your "higher living standard than the Nordic countries" is ridiculous hair-splitting.)

An intelligent, resourceful, progressive, youthful country should be borrowing the best bits from anywhere. I kinda said that in the post you initially responded to.

 

[its free real estate]

No disagreement here. (Although your "higher living standard than the Nordic countries" is ridiculous hair-splitting.)

An intelligent, resourceful, progressive, youthful country should be borrowing the best bits from anywhere. I kinda said that in the post you initially responded to.

And Australia ... doesn't do this?

 

[aflfootyfanatic]

The minute labor can spell their ******* name right, I will support them.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

And Australia ... doesn't do this?

Not nearly enough. And Seeds's superstitious portrayal of socialism as the big bad boogey man is a classic manifestation.

Take it from someone who travels overseas a great deal, a lot of Oz politicians and people in the media really exploit Australia's geographical isolation from the rest of the world to keep us in the dark.

 

[its free real estate]

Not nearly enough. And Seeds's superstitious portrayal of socialism as the big bad boogey man is a classic manifestation.

“Not nearly enough” means what?

Take it from someone who travels overseas a great deal, a lot of Oz politicians and people in the media really exploit Australia's geographical isolation from the rest of the world to keep us in the dark.

Nonsense.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

“Not nearly enough” means what?

Means we lag behind many other countries in any manner of quality of life measures so why don't we look at their systems and see what they're doing right and whether we could implement similar measures here? Sheesh.

Or is Australia already perfection on a stick?

Nonsense.

Well there you go then.

 

[its free real estate]

Means we lag behind many other countries in any manner of quality of life measures so why don't we look at their systems and see what they're doing right and whether we could implement similar measures here? Sheesh.

Or is Australia already perfection on a stick?

Do we lag behind?

The one area we truly lag is education, but on health and wealth, and other metrics, we’re reasonably high performing.

 

[Taylor]

Finland and Sweden sit ahead of Australia on suicide rates, Finland by a fair bit. Sweden is the one above Australia.

If we had a population of five million then our GST and royalties from selling iron ore would make us much richer

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Do we lag behind?

The one area we truly lag is education, but on health and wealth, and other metrics, we’re reasonably high performing.

Education is a biggie and worryingly so, and we're slowly falling back down into the pack in a number of indices.

I personally think a technologically advanced democracy with the rule of law and an economy as big as Russia's should be f**ing acing every single stat. I have very high expectations for this place.

 

[Taylor]

Australia had three of the top ten most livable cities in the world last year.

Life is really good here, Australia offers a life the overwhelming majority of human kind ever dreams of. Drawing comparisons to other elite nations is risking not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[aflfootyfanatic]

Australia had three of the top ten most livable cities in the world last year.

Life is really good here, Australia offers a life the overwhelming majority of human kind ever dreams of. Drawing comparisons to other elite nations is risking not seeing the forest for the trees.

Especially Perth

 

[go you pups]

Finland and Sweden sit ahead of Australia on suicide rates, Finland by a fair bit. Sweden is the one above Australia.

If we had a population of five million then our GST and royalties from selling iron ore would make us much richer

Where's the UK sit on suicide rates?

I do see a lot of discussion pop up about it on twitter from various well known types over there talk about it and dealing with depression and all that, the awareness seems to be similar to what happens here.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Australia had three of the top ten most livable cities in the world last year.

Life is really good here, Australia offers a life the overwhelming majority of human kind ever dreams of. Drawing comparisons to other elite nations is risking not seeing the forest for the trees.

I disagree. It’s perfectly possible to acknowledge and be grateful for the incredible life we get to live here in Oz, yet maintaining very high standards and constantly striving to make the nation even better.

I find more than a few professed believers in individual effort and meritocracy are often proceeding from a very complacent view when it comes to the state of the nation. Not surprising. They’ve done fine, so why would they want to upset the applecart just so others can have a crack too?