Prediction Lachlan Keeffe

[Lefthanded]

We've gone backwards every year since Simon Buckley left.

I'll pay that, just so long as you are not equating them as to effect of their absence

 

[loki04]

They are just as much drug cheats as they are drug addicts or drug dealers.
Obviously you have some reason for your stance, but as you say, "What's to debate?"
They got unlucky the rec drugs they used were cut with something on the WADA banned list.

Clen is dearer then Coke so why would they be cutting coke with Clen?

I know why, because it stacks well and allows superior workouts and the safety net of "i didn't cheat deliberately it was my coke dealer he sold me the tailor made designer drug instead of the much more cost effective and cheaper one cut with talcum powder"...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Clen is dearer then Coke so why would they be cutting coke with Clen?

I know why, because it stacks well and allows superior workouts and the safety net of "i didn't cheat deliberately it was my coke dealer he sold me the tailor made designer drug instead of the much more cost effective and cheaper one cut with talcum powder"...

Not all of us are druggies and understand the fine "art" of its manufacture. As a result i (and others no doubt) will take what I have been told at face value until somebody with some sort of legitimate credentials in this field proves to me that it couldnt or shoudlnt be true or logical.

 

[loki04]

Not all of us are druggies and understand the fine "art" of its manufacture. As a result i (and others no doubt) will take what I have been told at face value until somebody with some sort of legitimate credentials in this field proves to me that it couldnt or shoudlnt be true or logical.

Don't have to be a druggie to do some basic research my friend.

I have many friends who have hit roids in the gym and also a few who like the odd line of coke on weekends.

I've asked them about it and they basically laughed then said only way they would cut it with Coke is to sell it at a higher price tag to people looking to cut or for extra kick for your non athletes, so those people would have had FULL knowledge of exactly what the coke was cut with when they paid top dollar for it by request.

Also if you do a bit of research online you would see that the dealers would near on make a loss if this was just a regular way to "cut" it and a pure accident.

Body builders use it in cutting phases as I'm sure other athletes do to.

Coke and Clen are near the same cost if not dearer for the clen. Coke cut with clen is sold at a dearer rate druggos like it for the extra kick and athletes like it for the extra benefits while being able to Party.

It is not in the interest of the dealer to cut his regular 'coke' with a product he could sell on its own for the same if not more by itself.

It is a designer drug and they would of full well known the risk.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I said legitimate credentials, not second hand info from gym junkies.

Even given that as you said some people like it for the kick. Its entirely plausible these idiots said "more kick, yes please".....without the thought of it being illegal or performance enhancing from a WADA perspective even crossing their minds. As I said I'm no druggie but I assume "is it WADA compliant" is not normally a question you ask dealers.

At the end of the day these players did not ask for extra mercy or discount due to the circumstances. They copped their full whack. So whether people believe they are deliberate or accidental drugs cheats is irrelevant.

 

[TheSierBear]

I said legitimate credentials, not second hand info from gym junkies.

Even given that as you said some people like it for the kick. Its entirely plausible these idiots said "more kick, yes please".....without the thought of it being illegal or performance enhancing from a WADA perspective even crossing their minds. As I said I'm no druggie but I assume "is it WADA compliant" is not normally a question you ask dealers.

At the end of the day these players did not ask for extra mercy or discount due to the circumstances. They copped their full whack. So whether people believe they are deliberate or accidental drugs cheats is irrelevant.

It does make quite a bit of sense really. These guys with big wallets decide to get some coke that has a better kick to it or so the word is. They probably haven't heard of clen, as most people on here hadn't who are probably just as well informed given their status of enthusiastic posters on a sports bulletin board. They go for a drug test and are intially dumbfounded to realize they have a Ped in their system.

The more sinister alternative is that they decide to get a fat burning PED even though being ripped, and IMV are absolute morons to do this because...
* They get the wrong PED that was supposed to have helped them anyway.
* They take a ridiculous risk knowing they are obligated to abide by WADA and would be almost certain to be caught.
* The stupidity of their decision to cheat, where the risks far outweighed the very minimal benefits, in fact Clen, a fat burning product as far as my knowledge goes, had little benefit to two guys who were quite lean.

It's far, far more plausible that they were ignorant. I wouldn't call them stupid either as they are no more or less stupid then the rest of the AFL/sports community who experiment, and we now know that's one big hell of a community.

Using a bit of Noam Chomsky thought, to accept that they deliberately set out to cheat the system, they'd have to be absolute ****ing morons, and dysfunctional ones at that. It is too far fetched to be honest. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[loki04]

It does make quite a bit of sense really. These guys with big wallets decide to get some coke that has a better kick to it or so the word is. They probably haven't heard of clen, as most people on here hadn't who are probably just as well informed given their status of enthusiastic posters on a sports bulletin board. They go for a drug test and are intially dumbfounded to realize they have a Ped in their system.

The more sinister alternative is that they decide to get a fat burning PED even though being ripped, and IMV are absolute morons to do this because...
* They get the wrong PED that was supposed to have helped them anyway.
* They take a ridiculous risk knowing they are obligated to abide by WADA and would be almost certain to be caught.
* The stupidity of their decision to cheat, where the risks far outweighed the very minimal benefits, in fact Clen, a fat burning product as far as my knowledge goes, had little benefit to two guys who were quite lean.

It's far, far more plausible that they were ignorant. I wouldn't call them stupid either as they are no more or less stupid then the rest of the AFL/sports community who experiment, and we now know that's one big hell of a community.

Using a bit of Noam Chomsky thought, to accept that they deliberately set out to cheat the system, they'd have to be absolute ******* morons, and dysfunctional ones at that. It is too far fetched to be honest. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Clen also helps increase your endurance without a lot of muscle wastage not just a get "ripped" benefit.

Increase in lung capacity.
Promotes fat burning and reduces muscle atrophy from excessive exercise.

Pretty handy benefits for an AFL footballer trying to lift his running game to the next level without becoming a stick wouldn't you say?

Also Clen takes about 10-14 days to completely clear from the system, which is why some elite athletes run the gamble as they don't get tested all the time and likely that Keeffe and Thomas were unlucky to be caught at all either way.

 

[loki04]

I said legitimate credentials, not second hand info from gym junkies.

Even given that as you said some people like it for the kick. Its entirely plausible these idiots said "more kick, yes please".....without the thought of it being illegal or performance enhancing from a WADA perspective even crossing their minds. As I said I'm no druggie but I assume "is it WADA compliant" is not normally a question you ask dealers.

At the end of the day these players did not ask for extra mercy or discount due to the circumstances. They copped their full whack. So whether people believe they are deliberate or accidental drugs cheats is irrelevant.

You can think what ever the **** you want mate, I'm just putting it out there.

I think you are being very naive here and if they weren't pie players I doubt you would be going so hard into bat for them.

BTW second info from people with real world experience, beats second hand info from players trying to save face and save their careers.

what is bigger PR storm

Player A: I took Clen as the pressure of AFL footy is too much and I am looking for that extra gear.

Or

Player B: Gee...ah...well....Um...ah...I dunno how it got in my system, maybe it was the Cow meat in NZ (then that gets debunked). Oh well actually I think it might be the lines i did at stereos with the boys, yeah that's where my Coke was cut with Clen.

Player A gets de-registered and disgraced as a certified Cheat.

Player B gets a whack and a 'he was just unlucky no a cheat' 'how was he suppose to know it had Clen in it', see you in 24 months boys don't do it again.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yet you even agreed in your previous post that its possible

" Coke cut with clen is sold at a dearer rate druggos like it for the extra kick"

You prefer the more sinister version, thats fine, you can believe what you want. Its just as possible that these well cashed up kids have paid a little more for as you put it "the extra kick" without a thought about the WADA code

 

[TheSierBear]

You can think what ever the **** you want mate, I'm just putting it out there.

I think you are being very naive here and if they weren't pie players I doubt you would be going so hard into bat for them.

BTW second info from people with real world experience, beats second hand info from players trying to save face and save their careers.

what is bigger PR storm

Player A: I took Clen as the pressure of AFL footy is too much and I am looking for that extra gear.

Or

Player B: Gee...ah...well....Um...ah...I dunno how it got in my system, maybe it was the Cow meat in NZ (then that gets debunked). Oh well actually I think it might be the lines i did at stereos with the boys, yeah that's where my Coke was cut with Clen.

Player A gets de-registered and disgraced as a certified Cheat.

Player B gets a whack and a 'he was just unlucky no a cheat' 'how was he suppose to know it had Clen in it', see you in 24 months boys don't do it again.

You give a good argument for your theory, but player B is a narrow minded and shallow view of what these guys went through (or may have according to you).

I'm sure if they deliberately set out to cheat they would have had a plan in the case they got caught. It's funny how you paint them to be morons, I think if what you say is true, in a way these guys are troubled geniuses. They've fooled the footballing community The CFC and everyone else and sundry despite being Collingwood players, with the exception of the few inevitable trolls, into believing their naiivety. Paradoxically that in itself is like the crime of the century.

But that's the problem with conspiracy theorists like you, they always seem to know better than mere mortals like me and the vast majority of humanity.

All the same, it's a pretty good effort of them to fool almost everyone considering how stupid they'd have to be to try to cheat. The benefits don't really outweigh the risks, especially their financial risks, Furthermore, the fact they've been kept on the list, in Keeffe's case with Essendon circling, rated by guys like Clarkson and Beveridge, sort of points more to the overwhelmingly accepted naiivety side of this 'debate', than the one you're trying to peddle. It seems that these guys weren't really on the fringe at the time, considering what we now know.

Your view is far fetched.

PS: There were much better PEDS on the market for these guys to cheat with, if that's the path you keep peddling that they went down.

 

[loki04]

You give a good argument for your theory, but player B is a narrow minded and shallow view of what these guys went through (or may have according to you).

I'm sure if they deliberately set out to cheat they would have had a plan in the case they got caught. It's funny how you paint them to be morons, I think if what you say is true, in a way these guys are troubled geniuses. They've fooled the footballing community The CFC and everyone else and sundry despite being Collingwood players, with the exception of the few inevitable trolls, into believing their naiivety. Paradoxically that in itself is like the crime of the century.

But that's the problem with conspiracy theorists like you, they always seem to know better than mere mortals like me and the vast majority of humanity.

All the same, it's a pretty good effort of them to fool almost everyone considering how stupid they'd have to be to try to cheat. The benefits don't really outweigh the risks, especially their financial risks, Furthermore, the fact they've been kept on the list, in Keeffe's case with Essendon circling, rated by guys like Clarkson and Beveridge, sort of points more to the overwhelmingly accepted naiivety side of this 'debate', than the one you're trying to peddle. It seems that these guys weren't really on the fringe at the time, considering what we now know.

Your view is far fetched.

PS: There were much better PEDS on the market for these guys to cheat with, if that's the path you keep peddling that they went down.

That's how it did occur well at least through media statements at the time.

They initially went down the contaminated meat path club even explored it as a possibility and they got the meat tested.

Then they eventually went with the coke theory when the meat thing got shot down.

10 days for a clean test some of these guys don't even get tested in a 12 month period so no it's not that far fetched to think they may try it especially if they hadn't been tested regularly.
You are acting as if the players are incapable of doing what us mere plebs are capable of and researching this shit. If you can get hold of coke you can get hold of Clen.
Both Keeffe and JT were not yet guaranteed in the 22 and were expecting a big pre-season.

But what ever they were just doing lines of the good stuff but thought it was the steak they ate in NZ before realising it was the coke all along.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

*If that is true*
I read similar at the time of testing in fact one of our own from the board leaked it before it came out in the media that they were done.

It begs the question why none of those partaking got done for Clen when there would of been blanket testing of our list as soon as the results were confirmed positive?

Either they opted for the lower grade gear,
It wasn't cut with clen in the first place,
They were very, very lucky.

OR
They bought different stuff from a different supplier at a different location at a different time
They werent partaking and didnt buy any stuff
They werent there at all
Blanket testing is something that you made up and is not standard procedure.
They did buy the same stuff and were blanket tested but by the time the testing happened the stuff was out of the system
Your memory is rusty and there was no leak on Bigfooty before the news actually broke
insert a million other variables here

 

[loki04]

OR
They bought different stuff from a different supplier at a different location at a different time
They werent partaking and didnt buy any stuff
They werent there at all
Blanket testing is something that you made up and is not standard procedure.
Your memory is rusty and there was no leak on Bigfooty before the news actually broke
insert a million other variables here

It's standard when 2 or more players get done for doping.

As i said IF true.

Also it was broken on here and the poster got flamed.

 

[TheSierBear]

That's how it did occur well at least through media statements at the time.

They initially went down the contaminated meat path club even explored it as a possibility and they got the meat tested.

Then they eventually went with the coke theory when the meat thing got shot down.

10 days for a clean test some of these guys don't even get tested in a 12 month period so no it's not that far fetched to think they may try it especially if they hadn't been tested regularly.
You are acting as if the players are incapable of doing what us mere plebs are capable of and researching this shit. If you can get hold of coke you can get hold of Clen.
Both Keeffe and JT were not yet guaranteed in the 22 and were expecting a big pre-season.

But what ever they were just doing lines of the good stuff but thought it was the steak they ate in NZ before realising it was the coke all along.

Hey Loki,
I have a theory that in the AFL there's also a stigma with recreational drugs. Exhibit Robbo's leaks earlier this year. Just maybe Keeffe and Thomas didn't want to tell the football world, early days, that they had clem in their system because of a night out on coke? Did it ever cross your mind that that was why they went with the contaminated meat theory first?

Also, what do you know about PED's in the industry, is clen the best and most elusive shit going around?


*thought not.

 

[jmac70]

That's how it did occur well at least through media statements at the time.

They initially went down the contaminated meat path club even explored it as a possibility and they got the meat tested.

Then they eventually went with the coke theory when the meat thing got shot down.

10 days for a clean test some of these guys don't even get tested in a 12 month period so no it's not that far fetched to think they may try it especially if they hadn't been tested regularly.
You are acting as if the players are incapable of doing what us mere plebs are capable of and researching this shit. If you can get hold of coke you can get hold of Clen.
Both Keeffe and JT were not yet guaranteed in the 22 and were expecting a big pre-season.

But what ever they were just doing lines of the good stuff but thought it was the steak they ate in NZ before realising it was the coke all along.

Keefe and Thomas are the first athletes to try the illicit drug excuse for taking this PED. I wonder if people would be so accepting of this story if it happened at another club or even another country.

Alberto Contador says hi.

 

[loki04]

Hey Loki,
I have a theory that in the AFL there's also a stigma with recreational drugs. Exhibit Robbo's leaks earlier this year. Just maybe Keeffe and Thomas didn't want to tell the football world, early days, that they had clem in their system because of a night out on coke? Did it ever cross your mind that that was why they went with the contaminated meat theory first?

Also, what do you know about PED's in the industry, is clen the best and most elusive shit going around?


*thought not.

Clen at the time was rife in gyms and hell even the fat obese guys at work were using it...was a more known drug, more accessible and seen as relatively harmless in comparison to other stuff and importantly a quick cleanse of the system.

They may well of been innocent coke snorters but personally I find it hard to believe.

Anyway who really cares you guys can think they were unlucky druggos and I can think they were unlucky Ped users.

 

[loki04]

Keefe and Thomas are the first athletes to try the illicit drug excuse for taking this PED. I wonder if people would be so accepting of this story if it happened at another club or even another country.

Alberto Contador says hi.

Parramatta NRL player Reni Maitu also came out and said his coke was cut with Clen then iirc the article tried to say Clen was much cheaper then Coke so that's why they use it but that is not entirely true.

 

[jmac70]

Parramatta NRL player Reni Maitu also came out and said his coke was cut with Clen then iirc the article tried to say Clen was much cheaper then Coke so that's why they use it but that is not entirely true.

He did that after he served his ban I think.

 

[loki04]

He did that after he served his ban I think.

Yep because he didn't like being labelled a cheat said he'd rather be seen as a ahem "party boy".

 

[jmac70]

Yep because he didn't like being labelled a cheat said he'd rather be seen as a ahem "party boy".

Funny that...

 

[TheSierBear]

So you mean like LIOTHYRONINE, MELDONIUM, T3 liothyronine , TELMISARTAN, CYNOMEL, AICAR and GW1516 are some of the lesser known PEDs outside of the traditional heavy gear like:

Deca- durabolin
Sustanon 250
Test Enanthate
test Propionate
Winstrol
Anivar/Oxyrodlene
Dianabol
Trenbolone

Or any of the other 276 variances of Steroids...

Clen at the time was rife in gyms and hell even the fat obese guys at work were using it...was a more known drug, more accessible and seen as relatively harmless in comparison to other stuff and importantly a quick cleanse of the system.

They may well of been innocent coke snorters but personally I find it hard to believe.

Anyway who really cares you guys can think they were unlucky druggos and I can think they were unlucky Ped users.

Hey Loki, you added nothing of substance pardon the pun it looks like you just did a google search and cut and pasted the names of certain drugs. All you told me is that Clen is easy to get your hands on, adds nothing to the debate. Sorry unless there's a chemical scientist who can explain what those drugs do, you, me and everyone else are still ignorant to what is out there.

 

[left at home]

does not matter now how they took it, they did and got caught. so they cheats and will always be so.
the question is do they after serving there time deserve a second chance in life and footy

 

[loki04]

does not matter now how they took it, they did and got caught. so they cheats and will always be so.
the question is do they after serving there time deserve a second chance in life and footy

Of course everyone does if they learn from their mistakes.

 

[Mateyman]

Why on earth would you cheat with a drug which is easily picked up in a drug test, when you could find others that won't be picked up for years? It's the same reason it doesn't make sense for Maria Sharapova to deliberately cheat with Meldonium, or for Ahmed Saad to deliberately have his energy drink. I would say the vast majority of drug takers in sport wouldn't be picked up until years later when scientists have worked out ways to test for the drugs.

 

[Chameleon75]

Why didn't they plea no significant fault, could have got a reduced ban