Lack of Indigenous Coaching Staff... Time for a 'Rooney Rule'?

Remove this Banner Ad

Luv_our_club

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2017
6,822
12,857
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It appears lots of people did not bother to read the OP, and jumped to conclusions.

This is disappointing.


I understand that disapointment, and as the OP I hope you can see and build on the positives. Lots of posters wanted to contradict the flogs.

For Port fans, every fan from PA who made a stand against the OP post I noted, so that at the end of this thread (as it is) I drew the conclusion that most of the negative posts were from PA fans.

My false bias?

Or a consequence of your fan's bias?

From a great football loving community this perception can and needs to change, easily.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Masqualero

Club Legend
Jul 2, 2015
1,658
2,227
AFL Club
Carlton
Dunno if a Rooney Rule is a great idea, however, more money, time and effort needs to be put into indigenous communities to level the playing field from the start.

The AFL can help this by encouraging acadamies and the like in these areas. The gab between white and indigenous Australia is huge and is clearly an issue.

We need to stop hiding these things away and work to help restore the indigenous culture. While Im not too sure the Rooney Rule is the best way to go about it, it does have some merit and we need to discuss these things more.

Great post OP
 

Adelaide Hawk

TheBrownDog
Sep 21, 2002
50,065
42,725
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
We had aboriginals coaches back in the 1970s and 1980s with Cable, Farmer, etc. It will happen again as more aboriginals play at the elite level, I'm sure some of them may like the idea of coaching. Give it time.
 

Strahany

Premiership Player
Jan 23, 2011
4,743
7,200
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
A fair society is one that runs on the concept of equal opportunity; not one that intervenes and forces equal outcomes. If someone is the best candidate for the job, then they will get the position.

Too often, people assume that there is some kind of invisible force causing a particular group to be over or under represented in a given field. However, a lot of the time it comes down to choice - maybe indigenous people don't typically become coaches because it simply doesn't interest them (whether that interest be in its entirety, or that they don't mind coaching but aren't passionate enough to put in the effort and pursue it professionally).
For example, there was a Scandinavian country (I forgot which one, exactly) that saw a clear difference in the choices of university courses when comparing men and women, and when they removed all possible extraneous variables (such as quotas or 'rules' like this) they found that this gap widened, AKA when given completely free choice, they went in the opposite direction to which society is forcing them to go.

There's every possibility that the same goes in this situation.
 

freddy mercury

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2009
10,993
12,571
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Jacksonville
Meh if you're good enough at what you do it shouldn't matter what color or race you are.
 

Kwality

Hall of Famer
Aug 14, 2011
38,708
14,479
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1

Always Ballin

★I'M SMARTER THAN YOU★
Jan 11, 2015
4,478
6,956
Main Forum Poster
AFL Club
West Coast

magpienato

The Swooping Magpie
Oct 27, 2016
5,286
8,016
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Packers, Raptors, Renegades
How about this idea: Whoever is the best at the job gets hired, regardless of the colour of their skin or background? I know it's pretty radical but I think it might work.
A 'Rooney Rule' is aimed to give disenfranchised and underprivileged minorities equal opportunity and footing, specifically in the coaching ranks. It's an approach utilized to sour the blow of historical racism, discrimination and prejudice.
I'm not sure if you're aware but none of the players or coaches or anyone involved in the AFL today have contributed in racial discrimination of Aboriginal people.
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
47,848
69,194
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
It appears lots of people did not bother to read the OP, and jumped to conclusions.

This is disappointing.

I have to laugh at all the "just hire the best person" comments. The Rooney Rule is literally just about interviewing, it's got nothing to do with hiring.

Maybe someone should go through and edit all those comments to say "just interview the best person" so they're actually relevant to the OP. Of course, that'd also make them look pretty dumb since there's no way to know who the best person is prior to interviewing but I don't think it'd take much away from the posts.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Mitchell Madness

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 17, 2006
22,572
11,351
???
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Miami Dolphins(NFL)
I have to laugh at all the "just hire the best person" comments. The Rooney Rule is literally just about interviewing, it's got nothing to do with hiring.

Maybe someone should go through and edit all those comments to say "just interview the best person" so they're actually relevant to the OP. Of course, that'd also make them look pretty dumb since there's no way to know who the best person is prior to interviewing but I don't think it'd take much away from the posts.
And if you are interviewed but don't get the job, you can sue for discrimination (happened in the early 2000s here, and still happens in the US)

Honestly, race or gender should play no part in the hiring process, including interviews
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
47,848
69,194
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
And if you are interviewed but don't get the job, you can sue for discrimination (happened in the early 2000s here, and still happens in the US)

Honestly, race or gender should play no part in the hiring process, including interviews

What examples are there of NFL head coaches who received an interview and suing for not getting the job?

That's the context of the Rooney Rule. It doesn't apply to every job in the US.
 

twotooto

late bloomer
Sep 26, 2015
2,466
5,746
AFL Club
West Coast
I have to laugh at all the "just hire the best person" comments. The Rooney Rule is literally just about interviewing, it's got nothing to do with hiring.

Maybe someone should go through and edit all those comments to say "just interview the best person" so they're actually relevant to the OP. Of course, that'd also make them look pretty dumb since there's no way to know who the best person is prior to interviewing but I don't think it'd take much away from the posts.

Would you agree that something like The Rooney Rule is to ensure that potential applicants for a role are not discriminated against because they are a minority group?

As I have stated previously in this thread, the OP needs to supply verifiable, statistical proof that indigenous people are actually applying for the positions.

Then, once it's established that indigenous people are indeed applying for coaching roles but are being knocked back at a disproportionate rate, something like The Rooney Rule could be considered.

If the stats do not support then the OP is kind of moot, wouldn't you say?
 

Fire

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 12, 2003
10,964
5,030
New York
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Unless you are paranoid enough think a club would not hire the best coach avaliable, or even interview a similar candidate, simply because they are a bit dark, then this would be a pointless and destructive excersise in back patting.

Think about it, what would this achieve? The only time this rule would come into effect is if an indiginous candidate wasnt good enough to get an interview on merit. But now they are gonna interview them anyway? Being interviewed for a job which you have no chance of getting, simply because an employer has a set of their own boxes to tick, is one of the most demoralising and agitating experiances you can drag someone through. You are left feeling cheated and violated.

I can understand that an initiative like this has good intensions, but the end result is a reduction of a people and a culture to a token. Quotas and quota like systems, which this is, can be positive in times and places when the idea of employing or working with a person of a minority needs to be normalised. No one would bat an eyelid at an indigenous coach. It is already normalised.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
18,190
18,330
AFL Club
Carlton
I have to laugh at all the "just hire the best person" comments. The Rooney Rule is literally just about interviewing, it's got nothing to do with hiring.

To justify a rule like that you need to provide evidence that fully accredited indigenous coaches are not being granted interviews. Is there overwhelming evidence this is occurring?

If not then it's a pointless rule.

Maybe someone should go through and edit all those comments to say "just interview the best person" so they're actually relevant to the OP. Of course, that'd also make them look pretty dumb since there's no way to know who the best person is prior to interviewing but I don't think it'd take much away from the posts.

Maybe the OP needs to cite evidence and cases of why the rule is required.

Lack of Indigenous coaches isn't actual evidence for a policy such as this being required.

If anything is required it's the AFL's favourite word "pathway" that is required, not a Rooney rule scenario.
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
47,848
69,194
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
Would you agree that something like The Rooney Rule is to ensure that potential applicants for a role are not discriminated against because they are a minority group?

As I have stated previously in this thread, the OP needs to supply verifiable, statistical proof that indigenous people are actually applying for the positions.

Then, once it's established that indigenous people are indeed applying for coaching roles but are being knocked back at a disproportionate rate, something like The Rooney Rule could be considered.

If the stats do not support then the OP is kind of moot, wouldn't you say?

To justify a rule like that you need to provide evidence that fully accredited indigenous coaches are not being granted interviews. Is there overwhelming evidence this is occurring?

If not then it's a pointless rule.



Maybe the OP needs to cite evidence and cases of why the rule is required.

Lack of Indigenous coaches isn't actual evidence for a policy such as this being required.

If anything is required it's the AFL's favourite word "pathway" that is required, not a Rooney rule scenario.

I'm fine with you guys quoting me as neither of you are using any of the following quotes to chase a different strawman:
  • Whoever is the best at the job gets hired
  • Hire people based on skill.
  • Best person for the job, whomever that may be.
  • Best person gets the job.
  • The AFL should already be hiring more coaches because of their race.
  • Best person gets the job.
  • So give out the jobs but don't base them on merit?
 

Tas

Premium Platinum
Dec 23, 2002
57,836
48,814
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
Identity politics is garbage and divisive.

I'd encourage more indigenous players to go through the coaching training and for more of them to get into coaching at all levels because I think they have a lot to offer AFL football. However, anyone given a position as coach should feel that they have been identified as the best candidate for the job and won it on merit. If people feel they have been overlooked for coaching positions based on their race or gender then I would encourage them to go through the channels to prosecute those that do.

I think indigenous people are welcome in our sport and can't think of any club that would knock back someone for a coaching role because of their heritage.

I'd just rather see an initiative introduced which helped encourage and support indigenous people to go through accreditation and go for AFL coaching roles. I am not sure how many have been interested in coaching after football.
 

SSSSSS

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2011
13,269
22,460
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Six decades of domination
I'd like to see more staff positions within AFL clubs which are directed towards supporting the Indigenous kids.

I think the likes of Burgoyne, Goodes, Wells etc. could become very good mentors for the next generation.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad