Lack of quality players for expansion

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Seedsfan

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*posts moved from Media rights thread - Wookie*

The only value in a 19th team is a 10th game

We do not have the talent to add sides to the comp the standard is already worse at 18 sides
 
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madmug

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The only value in a 19th team is a 10th game

We do not have the talent to add sides to the comp the standard is already worse at 18 sides
How do you judge that?

All competitions always have bottom sides & top sides.

Melbourne didn't win a flag for 26 years before the AFL started, St Kilda 24 years. Both still None since.

Carlton can't buy flags by soaking up talent from everywhere like they use to either.

The Australian population has grown about 30% since 1990.

The development programs have been greatly increased, the best players no longer stay in the WAFL. SANFL or anywhere.

So again, I'm interested in how you judge that?
 

JohnZ

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We do not have the talent to add sides to the comp the standard is already worse at 18 sides
We have no "talent" because kids and pumped and dumped by 20-22. Need a proper national reserves league where the kids can actually get some proper development and support.
 

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Seedsfan

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How do you judge that?

All competitions always have bottom sides & top sides.

Melbourne didn't win a flag for 26 years before the AFL started, St Kilda 24 years. Both still None since.

Carlton can't buy flags by soaking up talent from everywhere like they use to either.

The Australian population has grown about 30% since 1990.

The development programs have been greatly increased, the best players no longer stay in the WAFL. SANFL or anywhere.

So again, I'm interested in how you judge that?
Just watch the modern game and then watch the game from 15 years ago the standard has clearly dropped off

If we are to add an extra side the value is in the extra game each weekend. We can play Thursday night without a 19th side
 

Seedsfan

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We have no "talent" because kids and pumped and dumped by 20-22. Need a proper national reserves league where the kids can actually get some proper development and support.
I agree that there are issues with the pathways that have to be addressed
 

madmug

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Just watch the modern game and then watch the game from 15 years ago the standard has clearly dropped off

If we are to add an extra side the value is in the extra game each weekend. We can play Thursday night without a 19th side
Really? Just watch a few games & that tells us what? The skills have dropped? By what measure?

Subjective observation at best.

The game tactics have changed? Absolutely.
 

NoobPie

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Really? Just watch a few games & that tells us what? The skills have dropped? By what measure?

Subjective observation at best.

The game tactics have changed? Absolutely.
Exactly right, it was only 13 years ago the first premiership was won employing a zonal defensive system
 

madmug

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Exactly right, it was only 13 years ago the first premiership was won employing a zonal defensive system
The game now is high pressure & defence orientated. Its more like keepings off than its ever.

Being able to hit a target at 30 metres & being able to tackle & take a tackle are highly valued.

If people don't like it, take a bus back to 1990. But don't blame having an extra team. That makes no sense.
 

NoobPie

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The game now is high pressure & defence orientated. Its more like keepings off than its ever.

Being able to hit a target at 30 metres & being able to tackle & take a tackle are highly valued.

If people don't like it, take a bus back to 1990. But don't blame having an extra team. That makes no sense.
In a nut shell, it is far far harder to hit a target at 30 metres
 

Seedsfan

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The game now is high pressure & defence orientated. Its more like keepings off than its ever.

Being able to hit a target at 30 metres & being able to tackle & take a tackle are highly valued.

If people don't like it, take a bus back to 1990. But don't blame having an extra team. That makes no sense.
You have 80 odd blokes who would never of made the league before. If you want more teams you are going to have to add another 80. It’s unsustainable
 

madmug

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You have 80 odd blokes who would never of made the league before. If you want more teams you are going to have to add another 80. It’s unsustainable
We have more people in the country, more kids playing, more elite training programs than ever before.

You're not looking at the reality.
 

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Seedsfan

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We have more people in the country, more kids playing, more elite training programs than ever before.

You're not looking at the reality.
The growth in participation is down to girls/women playing the game. There is still an insignificant amount of AFL players from NSW and Qld
 

NoobPie

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The growth in participation is down to girls/women playing the game. There is still an insignificant amount of AFL players from NSW and Qld
Really? I think you are wrong on both counts

in 2017, about 1 in 7 players came from NSW/ACT, QLD or overseas.


That's almost 3 rosters worth of players
 

Seedsfan

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Really? I think you are wrong on both counts

in 2017, about 1 in 7 players came from NSW/ACT, QLD or overseas.


That's almost 3 rosters worth of players
And the overseas blokes are cat Bs most of them sit on the list and never make it. A lot of the NSW talent comes out of the country area where footy has always been strong
 

NoobPie

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And the overseas blokes are cat Bs most of them sit on the list and never make it. A lot of the NSW talent comes out of the country area where footy has always been strong

And yet there has been a substantial increase that is the result of having professional football clubs operating in those states.
 

Seedsfan

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And yet there has been a substantial increase that is the result of having professional football clubs operating in those states.
There has been a substantial increase in junior participation in south east Queensland and yes in time that will help improve the standard of the game but we are not there yet
 

Gigantor

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When you look at the "fringe" players who will run out for both teams on Saturday (the bottom 5 or 6 of the 23 players for each team), one could argue that there is no shortage of those sorts of players around Australia.
In the bulldogs team alone, you have: Vandermeer, Hannan, Gardner, Roarke Smith, just off the top of my head. Melbourne will have at least 4 equivalents.
Both have players missing out on a spot.
So you can argue that the number of A graders is finite, that's true, but below that, there is an endless supply of players who can step up to AFL standard, and at a minimum, be fringe players of any team of 23.
Every season, somewhere, a player is stepping out of the rookie list to become a permanent selection in the first team.
 

NoobPie

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There has been a substantial increase in junior participation in south east Queensland and yes in time that will help improve the standard of the game but we are not there yet
But

1) there has been considerable improvement and that is reflected in the increased numbers of players in the AFL from SEQ, Sydney and other non traditional parts of NSW
2) the very reason for that improvement is the existence of professional football clubs and their academies
 

NoobPie

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When you look at the "fringe" players who will run out for both teams on Saturday (the bottom 5 or 6 of the 23 players for each team), one could argue that there is no shortage of those sorts of players around Australia.
In the bulldogs team alone, you have: Vandermeer, Hannan, Gardner, Roarke Smith, just off the top of my head. Melbourne will have at least 4 equivalents.
Both have players missing out on a spot.
So you can argue that the number of A graders is finite, that's true, but below that, there is an endless supply of players who can step up to AFL standard, and at a minimum, be fringe players of any team of 23.
Every season, somewhere, a player is stepping out of the rookie list to become a permanent selection in the first team.
That's right, the difference between the 800th and 880th best player is negligible

And even the A graders increase over time, with a lag, when you have professional football clubs acting on a population where there weren't any previously. Look at Harris Andrews, Callum Wills, Isaac Heeney, Eroll Gulden etc.
 

madmug

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When you look at the "fringe" players who will run out for both teams on Saturday (the bottom 5 or 6 of the 23 players for each team), one could argue that there is no shortage of those sorts of players around Australia.
In the bulldogs team alone, you have: Vandermeer, Hannan, Gardner, Roarke Smith, just off the top of my head. Melbourne will have at least 4 equivalents.
Both have players missing out on a spot.
So you can argue that the number of A graders is finite, that's true, but below that, there is an endless supply of players who can step up to AFL standard, and at a minimum, be fringe players of any team of 23.
Every season, somewhere, a player is stepping out of the rookie list to become a permanent selection in the first team.
Never in the history of the game have clubs all had A grade players running out each week.

So yea, A grade talent is always finite. Its also aimed to be more evenly spread due to the draft system.

But to say the 'standard' of players is lower, is plainly absurd.
 

TWLS

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Never in the history of the game have clubs all had A grade players running out each week.

So yea, A grade talent is always finite. Its also aimed to be more evenly spread due to the draft system.

But to say the 'standard' of players is lower, is plainly absurd.
Agree with this. It seems that the number of A graders in each team sits about 10/11 players. People who know more about this than me have indicated that is the preferred number going back many years. What defines an A grader overall - Are they the key players. That is the debate.
 

RedV3x

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Dec 14, 2015
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We do not have the talent to add sides to the comp the standard is already worse at 18 sides
A total misreading of the situation.
You. like many people are confusing the attractiveness of the game with a notion of "standard".
Football today is less attractive today because it flows less
and the culprit lands squarely at the feet of coaches.
When teams choose to play direct and attacking football then is is completely attractive.
 

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