Lack of Respect for the History of our Great Game by Interstate Clubs

Laphroaig

I Hate You
Jul 22, 2013
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So you reckon it was O.K for Collingwood, Richmond, Geelong, bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Fitzroy to go down the gurgler? Did you even bother to read the Info/ ? Can you give me some documentation to substantiate your claims? Words are empty without some form.. of expertise. Please remember it was a Vic document not a W.A one. And lets not forget the Commissioner was also Victorian.
So your answer is "prove it"? Yes I have read the article - long before you dug it up. And while you may have read it, you clearly failed to understand it. And are more than a little bit scared to face the reality of your own backyard.

  • 1983, May 2. – The WAFL requests immediate AID from the WA Goverment to meet a 1.9 million deficit that had come about due to the maintenance of league venues. The Government sets up a task force headed by Bill Mitchell to investigate footballs financial problems and long term needs. The Report would recommend ground rationalisation – down to four, including Subiaco and the WACA, as well as an independent commission. (Behind the Play pg 187)
  • 1984, February 28. The WAFL board hands control of football in WA over to a newly formed WAFL board. In return the Givernment took over repayments on a 4 million loan used to finance the development of Subiaco Oval. (Behind the Play pg 190)
  • 1984 – June 15. WA Football Commissioner appraches the SANFL to discuss entering the VFL at the same time, but leaves under the impression the SANFL arent interested
  • 1986, July 10. A report by Richard Colless, Peter Fogarty and John Walker is presented to the WAFL stating that 1) an expanded VFL was inevitable. 2) a composite team was the way forward. 3) Control of the team should rest with the WAFL. 4) The VFL would expand to WA by other means if the WAFL teams didnt support the composite option
  • 1986, August 26. All six WAFL directors and six of the eight clubs voted to apply to join the VFL in 1987. Sth Fremantle and Swan Districts vote against. (Behind the play, pg 202). To get the clubs votes a $200,000 in finanical support was offered to each club (Behind the play pg 218) The 4 million license fee is demanded up front by the VFL instead of over 10 years as had been originally proposed (Behind the play pg 215
  • 1986, September 22. Indian PAcific Limited is formed to control the Eagles license. (Behind the play pg 206). The WAFL sells its sublicense to Indian Pacific Limited for $5.6million, making a 1.6 million profit. IPL also had the right 50% of any shares offered in a second team

That's the short version. If you're going to huff and puff, try reading the source materials first.
 

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Carringbush2010

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
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Ideally a national comp would've started up in its own right, instead of emerging out of the VFL. We could've avoided this sort of pointless argument.

But it wasn't to be. Nods to the past suburban greats of yesteryear are fine, but let's move on and just acknowledge that we are in a national era now.
Now we're talkin! A complete national new national comp would've been ideal. The problem would arise about which clubs would be part of it or do we complete new start ups? Either way you couldn't have both, now I'd imagine the then fans of the state league clubs wouldn't be up for seeing their club go by the wayside for the sake of a national comp and that's probably why the VFL was used as a base to set up a so called national comp.

There are many reasons why we can't have a true national comp, not as the biggest anyway - the fans will just stick phat their club.
 

Coach_Required

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Feb 19, 2008
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You make a great case for AFL flags to stand alone.
Not really because most of those flags were still won against teams in this competition.

I guess it could be argued if you won flags against University or Fitzroy then maybe not, however Fitzroy were technically "merged" if you ask the AFL with the bears.
 

Carringbush2010

Norm Smith Medallist
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It was brought to the table because of Sprockets claim that Clubs were not financially in trouble. Make an effort and read the thread.
Read this again and tell me sprockets stated the clubs were not in financial trouble. How about you make an effort and read period.

It wasn't struggling financially, it was just that the bottom teams couldn't compete financially with the top teams and the top teams were paying overs for far too long battling each other, so they decided the answer was to bring in more moola from interstate. Crowds and tv watchers were always high.

The AFL is simply a rebadged VFL with some interstate teams added, which is something interstate supporters, ie those from outside Vic, have never been able to grasp. Note that NONE of those teams existed before they became part of the AFL, so really, interstate league premierships mean zip in regards to AFL.

As for the OP, who really cares what supporters of other teams think.
 

deltablues

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It comes down to whether it is a National organisation or a regional one. If you accept the premise that it is National then there is.no such thing as an interstate team. There is such a thing as non vic teams. Shame the " AFL" administration wants to have it's cake and eat it too. Wants all the benefits of a national.comp, but still runs the place like it is the VFL. Case and point locking in the GF at a venue for the next 40 years. By the Optus will have been expanded to seat 75k and other grounds may also be viable.
Damn straight. There are no interstate teams in the NFL. Because the NFL is truly a national competition.

How many years has the AFL been going? 20? Nearly 1 generation, on human life-scale.

But it still has 'interstate' teams.

OK.
 

Lavender Bushranger

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Aug 25, 2005
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The game is so different now in terms of professionalism I am not sure they should be compared since there is a huge difference between a player from the 1980’s who’s post match cool down consisted of a meat pie and going to the pub and the modern players now.

Even an average player in 2019 would run rings around the best the 1970s and 1980s had to offer.
I don't think the standard is why they should be separated (as that is all relative).

I just think that the VFL was a comp with no Salary Cap, no travel, no equalisation, zones and only 11 teams to be better than.

Compare that to the AFL, in which you don't have a home ground (generally speaking), can't throw money at all the good players, you have to travel, are competing against 17 clubs, and get your players from a draft pool.


Whether it's harder now or then is irrelevant.

My point is that it's vastly different. So different, that what happened in the VFL bears no relevance that has happened in the AFL.


It's akin to a junior footballer joining an AFL ckub and claiming to be a Premiership player because he won a flag in the U18s.

Cool dude, great effort. But this is the AFL and no one gives a shit what you did in your previous competition. Different rules, different circumstances.
 

Carringbush2010

Norm Smith Medallist
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Damn straight. There are no interstate teams in the NFL. Because the NFL is truly a national competition.

How many years has the AFL been going? 20? Nearly 1 generation, on human life-scale.

But it still has 'interstate' teams.

OK.
The AFL is not a national comp and probably will never be, it's just not practical. The market is overwhelmingly in vic hence why the bulk of the clubs are vic teams.
 

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deltablues

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Ageist

Clinging onto achievements that occurred before you were born as a source of pride is ridiculous.
He said "meaningless". Not 'pride'. Nice projection.

So, let's see - all folk born after the achievement of the internet should therefore communicate by snail-mail/carrier pigeon.

Because meaningless. And ridiculous.
 

Echoes

Drain the swamp.
May 2, 2019
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Interstate clubs are like that weird friend you invite to a party who gets there late. Everyone else is already happy and drunk and they just complain and are generally unhappy with the circumstances.
In fairness, I see this largely as Port Adelaide and Freo issue.....Port just offended the rest of the footy world doesn’t count there SANFL flags as though they were won in the VFL/AFL era. And Freo because there ‘history’ since joining the comp is a disgrace, so they have to try and co-opt the rich WAFL Fremantle footy heritage into there own somehow.
 

sedders

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 26, 2003
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There seems to be an absolute lack of respect for the history of our great game by some Interstate clubs supporters simply because their clubs were not present.

Should Carlton forget about champions such as Nicholls and Jesaulenko because they only played in 12 team competitions?

Should the legends of the Colliers and Coventry’s be wiped from the record books because they played iagaindt ‘suburban’ teams’ ?

Should the Coleman medal be renamed the ‘Kennedy Medal’ because the great man played in a time of ‘amateur’ footballers and should Reynolds exploits be ignored?

Perhaps Bunton and Murray should be thrown on the scrap heap.

Maybe the immortal that is EJ Whitten should be relegated to suburban footballer and forget about Charlie Sutton.

Farmer and Goggin should be removed because they were not part of the AFL. Even Ablett’s 9 goal GF heroics would be wiped.

Matthews the greatest of them all would not be considered with the modern greats because he played in pre AFL

Barrassi and the immortal Demons teams of the 50s and 60s should not be celebrated due to the the fact they didn’t play in the expansion. The Norm Smith medal should be renamed

Grieg and Dempsey only played part time and could not possibly rank with the greats of today

Forget the Jack Dyer medal, Tigers fans should ignore his legend and rename it the Dusty medal. As for Hart and Bartlett they would not rate.

Pratt’s 150 and Nash’s heroics do not count

Baldock and Stewart ??? Who ???

And well we are at let’s rename ‘Up there Cazaly’ - Up there Modra
and the Jock McHale medal the ‘Simpson Medal’. No matter what era, no matter how long ago, a champion of the game is a champion of the game. They were the best on a level playing field against their peers. A Premiership whether Essendon in 1897 or West Coasts in 2018 was just as important. The history of our great game has been carved and written and for those who don’t like it the answer is simple. Stop whinging about our past and go and make your own history.
No one, and quite literally not a single person has suggested any of the above should happen.

If you cant oppose the fact that VFL premierships are vastly different than AFL premierships without creating this straw man argument, it only goes to prove you have no solid basis to deny it.

Collingwood have won only 2 AFL premierships. Less than two interstate teams. Deal with it.
 

South of the Yarra

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 23, 2006
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No one, and quite literally not a single person has suggested any of the above should happen.

If you cant oppose the fact that VFL premierships are vastly different than AFL premierships without creating this straw man argument, it only goes to prove you have no solid basis to deny it.

Collingwood have won only 2 AFL premierships. Less than two interstate teams. Deal with it.
This is nothing to do with Collingwood not sure why you would specifically raise them.
 

sedders

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 26, 2003
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This is nothing to do with Collingwood not sure why you would specifically raise them.
ahhahaaha you tackle one element of my post from an obscure angle.

again, refusing to take on the real debate here which is VFL flag vs AFL flags.

no one is saying anything in your OP. Its a complete pile of bullshit that was created from your personal insecurity when comparing the size of your trophy cabinet with Brisbane and West Coast.

It has everything to do with your barracking for Collingwood.
 

deltablues

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And it's relevant to the op, it seems the op has a view that some non vic supporters hold little regard for the history of the VFL now AFL - I think the claim is warranted.
I disagree. You have indulged in a non sequitur. If the AFL is the VFL redux, then "little regard" is also vice versa re 'interstate' supporters, who have their own state leagues' history.

You can't have it both ways, mister.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
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There seems to be an absolute lack of respect for the history of our great game by some Interstate clubs supporters simply because their clubs were not present.

Should Carlton forget about champions such as Nicholls and Jesaulenko because they only played in 12 team competitions?

Should the legends of the Colliers and Coventry’s be wiped from the record books because they played iagaindt ‘suburban’ teams’ ?

Should the Coleman medal be renamed the ‘Kennedy Medal’ because the great man played in a time of ‘amateur’ footballers and should Reynolds exploits be ignored?

Perhaps Bunton and Murray should be thrown on the scrap heap.

Maybe the immortal that is EJ Whitten should be relegated to suburban footballer and forget about Charlie Sutton.

Farmer and Goggin should be removed because they were not part of the AFL. Even Ablett’s 9 goal GF heroics would be wiped.

Matthews the greatest of them all would not be considered with the modern greats because he played in pre AFL

Barrassi and the immortal Demons teams of the 50s and 60s should not be celebrated due to the the fact they didn’t play in the expansion. The Norm Smith medal should be renamed

Grieg and Dempsey only played part time and could not possibly rank with the greats of today

Forget the Jack Dyer medal, Tigers fans should ignore his legend and rename it the Dusty medal. As for Hart and Bartlett they would not rate.

Pratt’s 150 and Nash’s heroics do not count

Baldock and Stewart ??? Who ???

And well we are at let’s rename ‘Up there Cazaly’ - Up there Modra
and the Jock McHale medal the ‘Simpson Medal’. No matter what era, no matter how long ago, a champion of the game is a champion of the game. They were the best on a level playing field against their peers. A Premiership whether Essendon in 1897 or West Coasts in 2018 was just as important. The history of our great game has been carved and written and for those who don’t like it the answer is simple. Stop whinging about our past and go and make your own history.
And what about VFL supporters forgetting about champions from outside of Victoria?

WTF is your point?
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
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Since the AFL was created, there has been 20 appearances in Grand Finals by non Victorian teams with 12 non Victorian teams winning flags.

I’d say the VFL is well and truly gone at AFL level, and any Victorian flog holding on to the notion that ‘Vic is best’ needs to get a reality check.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
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And it's relevant to the op, it seems the op has a view that some non vic supporters hold little regard for the history of the VFL now AFL - I think the claim is warranted.
What makes the history of the VFL so superior to that of the SANFL, WAFL, TFL or any other non Victorian league pre AFL?

The claim is a load of horse shit
 

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