Review Lackluster Dogs Lose To The Suns, Rd 3, 2019

dogwatch

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I thought the coaches votes were strange last week, this week just bizarre, 1 coach gave Libba 2 votes and the other gave him none, yet both coaches gave Bont a perfect 5
Yes, pretty surprising to me too.
10 - Bontempelli
6 - Martin (GC)
4 - Bowes (GC), Weller (GC)
2 - Libba
2 - Fiorini (GC)
1 - Witts (GC)
1 - Suckling

So the breakdown could be:
DEW
5 - Bont (WB)
4 - Bowes
3 - Martin
2 - Fiorini
1 - Witts

BEVO
5 - Bont
4 - Weller (GC)
3 - Martin (GC)
2 - Libba
1 - Suckling

Once again the individual players' votes are locked in (no other permutation works) but which coach gave them is debatable. I'm assuming Bevo gave the 2 & 1 votes to WB players so only the 4 votes (Bowes and Weller) would be interchangeable between the coaches.

On the 2019 AFLCA leaderboard it's

26 - Tim Kelly (G)
25 - Bontempelli, Dangerfield
22 - Neale
19 - P. Cripps
16 - Shuey
15 - J. Cameron
 

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DogDays

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Haven’t been here in a while, so apologies if my perspective isn’t matching that of the board at the moment. Needed a deep breath after that game.

3 weeks ago, I’d probably have taken 8-10 wins for the season provided we were competitive and had areas of growth. First two weeks were a big tick, and frankly exceeded expectations, but they shouldn’t move them. Reality is, we are somewhere between the high of last week and the low of this week. Perspective people.

A couple of observations:

- Worried about our captain. Is he sharing his role with too many players? Crozier, Suckling, Duryea, Young all wanting to be 3rd man into a contest. Bailey Williams too when he’s back. Do we send a Duryea or Suckling up the ground to de-clutter.
I think this a brilliant point and probably part of the reason for his lack of form.


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Dogs Rule

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Whilst talking of umps. I remember a dead set mark to Young that he held, a Sun came over his back and chopped him so he dropped it...no mark paid. But yeah not complaining overall but I do recall that one.
Speaking of sun, close the f****** roof. Next time it’s open on a bright sunny day, I’ll walk out and go home. It’s ridiculous. The moment when a bunch of our players put their hand up to shield the sun and proceeded to have the ball drop in front was a joke.

People on the members wing had to move. The roof is there so use it.
 

perro_loco

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Shhhh. Don't tell people that, let them melt hard like we've been a basketcase for two decades like Carlton.

Don't get me wrong, I want to contend for a flag every year, and all clubs should aim for that. But also realistic that the odds is one flag every 18 years for each team, its freaking hard to win one. Don't become like Hawk's fans who have become so used to winning, that they feel entitled in everything, that some went into full melt mode and wanted changes just after two average years just after they won three in a row. Four flags in a decade, stfu!

We are a young developing squad, people need to get that in their heads. This isn't 2016 Premiership team no more, we tried hard the last two years to milk another flag, but we were dry. Bevo has said this year is about moving on and looking to the future now, we have some of the best young players in the league and a list in a solid position compared to most young lists. Inconsistency is part of the package of young teams, not premierships. If we only win one flag every decade then that's a good strike rate, given many fans may not see their team win a single one if their lifetime. Disappointed to lose to the Suns, but even good teams have upset losses to low teams at some point in the season, and the Suns are not as bad as some people have labeled them. One kick away from being 3-0 and finally have a coach that suits their list. As long as we show upwards progress, sort out our forward efficiency problems and have a couple of talls stand up and start to take the game on themselves week in and out, I will be happy. More competitive matches, and no beltings. Already shown character to come from behind in three games so far. If we were able to get something out of the forward half against the Suns, we'd have won by a few goals, given we pretty much pumped the ball inside 50, and controlled the clearances in the last three quarters, its not all doom and gloom.

Yeah I get equally frustrated as many and want this and that player to be dropped or made accountable.

But Hate the Jekyll and Hyde over reacts week in and out on here. It's one freaking game, lets judge the season after a few games and as a whole. One game means nothing.

Sydney didn't mean we are back, Hawks didn't mean we will be top contenders, and the Suns doesn't mean we are bottom four. Still to early to judge.

Credit to the Suns, they smashed us in the first quarter. They played with intent and ran their guts off, probably why they slowed to a crawl for the final three quarters. Them dropping an extra man or two deep is exactly how your turn our forward line into shambles, even an amateur coach should know that. Though makes me question where the F were our extra player or two? Didn't seem like we took advantage of that numbers mismatch elsewhere
Don't be surprised if we beat the Pies. Ha, can't wait to see that loss on the face of one of my magpies mates. Dogs 3=1, Pies 1-3.

Collddd pieesss!!! ha, ha,,..
 
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Were people watching the same Richards I was last year? He's always had trouble finding the ball as a winger or forward. Better at half back but we've got a disproportionate amount and they can't all play their best position. Wouldn't be against dropping him but I think it'll be some time before he develops any sort of ball-winning talent, might be better off trying to fast track him in the firsts like we've been doing.
 
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Suns were the better team. Exploited our weaknesses and played to their strengths for the majority of the game. We didn't play at 100%, especially in the first, but far from the sort of effort I was seeing regularly last year.
 

Yojimbo

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Bont seriously got 10 votes? WTF? I thought it was the worse game he had played for us.
The coaches go off supercoach as well, Bont was good early in the game and got off to a flyer, but in my
opinion was symptomatic of the very reason we lost the game and thus got no love from me in the
Ching, his 7 clangers was a game high. If we are honest we don't have much mojo or go forward out
there at the moment, but that is a balanced football side not everyone has to be the man. Looking
forward to JJ, Williams, Lynch coming in as they take it on and have plenty of mojo. T.M.P at the
moment.
 

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mambavino

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Speaking of sun, close the f****** roof. Next time it’s open on a bright sunny day, I’ll walk out and go home. It’s ridiculous. The moment when a bunch of our players put their hand up to shield the sun and proceeded to have the ball drop in front was a joke.

People on the members wing had to move. The roof is there so use it.
Yep I had to get up and move for most of the game because I couldn’t see half of what was happening. Not to mention I was gonna be burnt to a crisp of I stayed there.
Didn’t come back to my seat until the last qtr.

That moment you mention perfectly illustrated why the roof should always be closed at this stupidly oriented stadium.
 

Mofra

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I thought the coaches votes were strange last week, this week just bizarre, 1 coach gave Libba 2 votes and the other gave him none, yet both coaches gave Bont a perfect 5
Jeez, to my eyeballs I had Libba as our best. Bont's kicking was just off, not just his 0.3 but field kicking as well.
 

dogwatch

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Jeez, to my eyeballs I had Libba as our best. Bont's kicking was just off, not just his 0.3 but field kicking as well.
Disposal efficiency stats for our midfielders seem to support this (although they're a pretty coarse measure because they include handballs):
Hunter 85.2%​
Wallis 82.6%​
Macrae 81.8%​
Liberatore 80.0%​
Dunkley 68.8%​
Bontempelli 61.8%​
Smith 59.1%​

You can understand Hunter getting higher disposal efficiency with his outside game but Wallis, Macrae and Libba usually do as much work through traffic as the Bont. Libba for instance had 22 CPs compared to Bont's 16 yet had a much higher DE.

I'm not overly worried by one match though. I still love seeing the ball in his hands. Did anyone at the ground notice whether he copped a close tag?
 

Mofra

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Disposal efficiency stats for our midfielders seem to support this (although they're a pretty coarse measure because they include handballs):
Hunter 85.2%​
Wallis 82.6%​
Macrae 81.8%​
Liberatore 80.0%​
Dunkley 68.8%​
Bontempelli 61.8%​
Smith 59.1%​

You can understand Hunter getting higher disposal efficiency with his outside game but Wallis, Macrae and Libba usually do as much work through traffic as the Bont. Libba for instance had 22 CPs compared to Bont's 16 yet had a much higher DE.

I'm not overly worried by one match though. I still love seeing the ball in his hands. Did anyone at the ground notice whether he copped a close tag?
Bont does go for lower % kicks to try and open up the play so I can understand if his DE drops every now and then, but against the Suns it was well below his normal standard. In round 1 he actually hit one of the best field kicks into the F50 I've seen - 55m and barely 2, off the ground the whole way.

Libba is a very underrated kick. He's elite off the left and won the kicking comp at draft camp.
 

Mr. Walker

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Is Wallis spending most of his time in the midfield now? I thought Bev decided last year that he was a forward who would spend small periods as a mid. This year he seems to be played predominately as a mid. i think his poor disposal means he should play as a forward mostly. Wallis, Dunkley, Hunter is too many poor users to carry in the middle.
 
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Couple of take aways from today's game
•Richards looks lost and adds nothing to the team with his lack of set position, needs a run in the VFL and at half back I feel
•Although English gets smashed in the hit outs I don't see the need for change, considering our mids are so dominant. Yes they could be even more dominant with Trengove or Sweet? But there's more important issues than making English the scapegoat
•Happy with Young in the last 2 games but I'm still wary if a key defender role fits into Bevo's mantra. Better with a tall id say
• I think we have under utilised McLean, especially today. Would throw him onto the ball more than Wallis, who I rate, yet feel he plays the role of a forward better
•Lloyd and Schache very very ordinary but prepared to let Lloyd play next week, he's used up his token however. Wider pockets of the MCG suits them better
•Finally Bailey Smith is improving by the week, great faith by Bevo and the selection committee, resisting the temptation to bring Lipinski in for him. Still feel Lipinski should be rewarded but now it's clear that Smith should not be dropped for him
The bolded is really strange to me. You admit he's been smashed but don't want to make a change? He was totally uncompetitive in the ruck on Sunday and offered next to nothing around the ground. As much as I hate the "using mids as a ruck" gimmick, we would have been far better off with Dunkley in the ruck.
I think he's got a heap of potential but is not up to it at the moment
 

Dogsman16

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I’m close to the largest critic of Trengrove on this board, but it’s clear as day that right now that even as of this week he’s should be the number one ruck option. He’s undersized and he’s just as likely to get smashed in the hit outs as English is, but he can find the football and for a ruckman he is elite at clearances. English in time will overtake him, but if Tim continues to get badly beaten in the hit outs then he needs to offer other threats such as a marking option and a potential avenue to goal. He’s not doing any of these things so he needs to go back to VFL and regain some other tools to get his spot back.

Our midfield is excellent at clearances so let’s add a ruck that makes that facet of our game even better.
 

Mattdougie

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The bolded is really strange to me. You admit he's been smashed but don't want to make a change? He was totally uncompetitive in the ruck on Sunday and offered next to nothing around the ground. As much as I hate the "using mids as a ruck" gimmick, we would have been far better off with Dunkley in the ruck.
I think he's got a heap of potential but is not up to it at the moment

Witts is a far better ruckman than people give him credit for.

We all know English isn’t ready but we aren’t a contender so why not keep playing him getting games into him?

You think with Trengove in the team we can challenge? I agree we should probably have a support for English but what do we really gain dropping him?​
 
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Dogs Rule

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Bont seriously got 10 votes? WTF? I thought it was the worse game he had played for us.
Reputation. In a forgettable game, the great players are almost the safe, default option I reckon. 'Oh he's a brilliant player normally and nobody else stood out really, so I'll give him the votes'.
 
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The bolded is really strange to me. You admit he's been smashed but don't want to make a change? He was totally uncompetitive in the ruck on Sunday and offered next to nothing around the ground. As much as I hate the "using mids as a ruck" gimmick, we would have been far better off with Dunkley in the ruck.
I think he's got a heap of potential but is not up to it at the moment
I completely understand but which one of our ruckmen on the list are not going to get smashed every week.. I'm leaning more towards the fact that this isn't affecting the ability of the mids to win the clearances, perhaps against another good midfield like Collingwood it might. I'm just not convinced Trengove or Sweet could add anything extra in the ruck or around the ground that English currently does. If it wasn't for the hit outs stat coming up on the screen every 5 mins I wouldn't have blinked an eye, as Bont and libba ended up getting the ball out of the middle all the time
 

Mofra

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I completely understand but which one of our ruckmen on the list are not going to get smashed every week.. I'm leaning more towards the fact that this isn't affecting the ability of the mids to win the clearances, perhaps against another good midfield like Collingwood it might. I'm just not convinced Trengove or Sweet could add anything extra in the ruck or around the ground that English currently does. If it wasn't for the hit outs stat coming up on the screen every 5 mins I wouldn't have blinked an eye, as Bont and libba ended up getting the ball out of the middle all the time
English run and gets into position.

I like Trengove and think he was our best ruck last year. Right now it's line ball and as much as I like Trengove English is the future. The sooner we get him to 50 games the better. Engish will be ready to compete from 2020 so playing Trengove is delaying the inevitable - if he was fit, which he wasn't last week.

R2 is a problem though. Schache to 3/4 time didn't manage a hitout against Witts (who to be fair is good tap ruckman) or 2MP who isn't that more advanced than Schache.
 
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