Ladder conference farce

cmndstab

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2020 - CONFERENCE SYSTEM (14 teams, 7 rounds, 3 weeks of finals)

CONFERENCE A - Teams 1,4,5,8 + (9 or 10) from 2018, + two new teams
- Adelaide(1), Kangaroos(4), Melbourne(5), WBulldogs(8), Brisbane(9), Gold Coast, St Kilda
- conference strength based on 2018 results = 27 (ie. 3.7% differential to Conf. B, compared to 25% in 2019)
- Brisbane and Gold Coast added to same conference to ensure local derby match

CONFERENCE B - Teams 2,3,6,7 + (9 or 10) from 2018, + two new teams
- Carlton(2), Fremantle(3), Geelong(6), GWS Giants(7), Collingwood(10), West Coast, Richmond
- conference strength based on 2018 results = 28 (ie. 3.7% differential to Conf. B, compared to 25% in 2019)
- West Coast added to same conference as Fremantle to ensure local derby match

Rankings include grand final, so Carlton becomes #2, all other teams as per H&A record.


A different conference set-up, if you put Collingwood in A then you move the two Qld teams to B:
CONFERENCE A - Teams 1,4,5,8 + (9 or 10) from 2018, + two new teams
- Adelaide(1), Kangaroos(4), Melbourne(5), WBulldogs(8), Collingwood(10), Richmond, St Kilda
- conference strength based on 2018 results = 28 (ie. 3.7% differential to Conf. B, compared to 25% in 2019)

CONFERENCE B - Teams 2,3,6,7 + (9 or 10) from 2018, + two new teams
- Carlton(2), Fremantle(3), Geelong(6), GWS Giants(7), Brisbane(9), Gold Coast, West Coast
- conference strength based on 2018 results = 27 (ie. 3.7% differential to Conf. B, compared to 25% in 2019)
- Brisbane and Gold Coast added to same conference to ensure local derby match
- West Coast added to same conference as Fremantle to ensure local derby match

FINALS: top 3 from each conference
Week 1 - SF1: A2 v B3; EF2: B2 v A3; bye for A1+B1
Week 2 - PF1: A1 v B2/A3; PF2: B1 v A2/B3
Week 3 - GF: PF1 winner v PF2 winner, hosted by #1-ranked PF winner
So in this setup, do we have two bye teams each week? (One from each conference)

Or is there one cross-over match for each team?
 

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Consolaçao

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Suppose Fremantle came up against Carlton at Ikon Park during the regular season in exchange for neither team playing Geelong...

Based on today's result, the Dockers would've finished Round 7 on the same number of wins as both the Blues and Roos but with the lowest % of the three.
‘Carlton finished with less wins than Fremantle, but what if this had happened and this had happened? Carlton would have finished higher, ergo they thoroughly deserve a home final over the team they finished below.’

I think you like arguing, but you’re just not very clever at it.
 

Teen Wolf

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‘Carlton finished with less wins than Fremantle, but what if this had happened and this had happened? Carlton would have finished higher, ergo they thoroughly deserve a home final over the team they finished below.’

I think you like arguing, but you’re just not very clever at it.
My argument wasn't that Carlton thoroughly deserved a home final. I was once again pointing out how win-loss records are, and have been in this season, skewed by an imbalanced fixture. A unified ladder doesn't come close to resolving that.

Misrepresenting what I said makes it easier for you to knock me down, oldest trick in the book pal.
 

SunGirl89

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Any league that has 7 minor rounds and then 3 weeks of finals just seems silly to me. The AFL should allow for a longer AFLW season, something like a 10 round minor round minimum.
There's this constant talk of minimal crossover between the AFLM and AFLW, which I don't understand. Is that like a rule forever? This is why I'm interested in the long term strategy, how many rounds in 2020, how many rounds in 2021, ...

So in this setup, do we have two bye teams each week? (One from each conference)

Or is there one cross-over match for each team?
14 teams, 7 games each week, no byes. Each week, six teams in Conf A would play each other, six teams in Conf B would play each other, and there would be one crossover match.
 
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So funny how everyone has completely missed the point on this.

The integrity of the fixture/ladder/finals in AFLW is irrelevant at this point. The main focus is getting as many people watching the league as possible.

Carlton playing in the grand final this year is a dream result for the AFLW. I’m sure I’m not the only Carlton supporter with a suddenly heightened interest in the woman’s competition.

Same case next year if a lower placed side plays finals because of the split conference system. Success breeds interest and ratings.
 

SunGirl89

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So funny how everyone has completely missed the point on this.

The integrity of the fixture/ladder/finals in AFLW is irrelevant at this point. The main focus is getting as many people watching the league as possible.

Carlton playing in the grand final this year is a dream result for the AFLW. I’m sure I’m not the only Carlton supporter with a suddenly heightened interest in the woman’s competition.

Same case next year if a lower placed side plays finals because of the split conference system. Success breeds interest and ratings.
I agree with you to some extent, although given that you're a Carlton supporter, you lack objectivity as to what is best for the competition. Carlton making the grand final is not a dream result, as far as AFLM goes, Carlton have always been at the bottom of the big 4 or big 6 Vic clubs. Collingwood would have been the dream result, not Carlton, and next year, West Coast or Richmond, and perhaps one day, Sydney.

The ineptitude of the AFL, the conferences and the Crows winning their finals by an average 9 goals is not great but what is more important is that more girls see AFL as a career option and that more people get involved, start watching and attending, and before long, paying for the sport so that the women can eventually become professional.
 

John Who

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So funny how everyone has completely missed the point on this.

The integrity of the fixture/ladder/finals in AFLW is irrelevant at this point. The main focus is getting as many people watching the league as possible.

Carlton playing in the grand final this year is a dream result for the AFLW. I’m sure I’m not the only Carlton supporter with a suddenly heightened interest in the woman’s competition.

Same case next year if a lower placed side plays finals because of the split conference system. Success breeds interest and ratings.
Agree the main focus by AFLW heads is to expand as much exposure of women’s footy as possible and increasing the chances of all states to be associated in Finals, attracting more fans etc.
However there needs to be a compromise in the fairness of the conference system so that fans will gain interest rather than being put off from following AFLW.
 

John Who

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I think I’ve come up with the answer to the fairest criteria for AFLW semi finals qualification:
1. Top team in each conference A/B qualifies and to host the SF.
2. Top 3 and 4 teams (best number of wins AND score percentage) from either conference to qualify.

If they’re going to insist on carrying on with a conference system jammed into 7 rounds, then my simple system would work no matter what teams belong to which conference. This system would give the most likely outcome of 4 genuine contenders playing out in the SF.
Quoting myself here, because this system makes the most sense in fairness in my mind with a conference system.

Relying on current ladder standings to form conference scheduling for next year is not as useful a form guide like the men’s comp. The reason is that the comp is still relatively new, teams have yet to establish dominance over each other, constant player shifting to different clubs, and unpredictability over a preseason.
 

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

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So funny how everyone has completely missed the point on this.

The integrity of the fixture/ladder/finals in AFLW is irrelevant at this point. The main focus is getting as many people watching the league as possible.

Carlton playing in the grand final this year is a dream result for the AFLW. I’m sure I’m not the only Carlton supporter with a suddenly heightened interest in the woman’s competition.

Same case next year if a lower placed side plays finals because of the split conference system. Success breeds interest and ratings.
Yeah, because I’m sure that Carlton are the most important AFL club and any other team that made the GF would have had zero support from their supporters.

As SunGirl said, if you wanted to maximise Vic interest, you’d want Collingwood playing the GF. I’m not sure how watching Carlton get smashed in the GF makes for a good game for neutrals to watch.
 

SunGirl89

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Just as there was last year, I'm sure there will be pressure to extend the length of the season next year. Having 53k at the GF doesn't hurt supporting such an argument. But 14 is such a shit number, you have options with 12 and 16.

As I have said before, I have no problem at all with a conference system, and even with the best intentions and best implementation, you can get uneven conferences, especially with a small number of teams and only a handful of home and away matches. One thing that I prefer with the AFLW Conference system compared to US sports is the lack of conference finals and hence, any two teams can meet in the season decider.
 
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Yeah, because I’m sure that Carlton are the most important AFL club and any other team that made the GF would have had zero support from their supporters.

As SunGirl said, if you wanted to maximise Vic interest, you’d want Collingwood playing the GF. I’m not sure how watching Carlton get smashed in the GF makes for a good game for neutrals to watch.
Trust me I’m not saying Carlton are the most important club. And I’m not talking about state interest. It could it have been any club that’s struggled in the first couple of AFLW seasons.

The more chance individual clubs have to be competitive and play finals the better. It will generate more interest from club supporter bases. I agree the integrity of the competition is compromised. But at this stage people need to look at the bigger picture
 

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SunGirl89

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the bigger picture
I agree that this is #1. It's not so much about where the sport is now but where it will be in the future. A good start has been made.

They cannot continue though for much longer with a mere 7 rounds. Should have been 8 this year and I'd suggest 8 or 10 next year.
 

Rob

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Looks like they're going to stick with conferences next year.

Which is actually a good call. 2 conferences of 7 with 7 rounds of 6 games each. 2 teams get a bye each week.

Completely fair - but I guarantee you the AFL will find a way to **** it up.
 

Teen Wolf

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Looks like they're going to stick with conferences next year.

Which is actually a good call. 2 conferences of 7 with 7 rounds of 6 games each. 2 teams get a bye each week.

Completely fair - but I guarantee you the AFL will find a way to **** it up.
I think the AFL would gladly go with that until they get absolutely reamed by players, clubs, media outlets and whoeverthehellelse on twitter for cutting back the H&A season and disrespecting women.
 

SunGirl89

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Looks like they're going to stick with conferences next year.
Nicole Livingstone is so full of shit: "support for the contentious system was overwhelming." Conferences are not a problem per se Nicole, how you implemented them and the finals was FFS.

Which is actually a good call. 2 conferences of 7 with 7 rounds of 6 games each. 2 teams get a bye each week.
Not sure where you got that from. The Age and Herald Sun both state "the exact season structure for next year remains up in the air."

Your suggestion together with appropriate allocation of teams into conferences would be a huge improvement on 2019. Although I suspect the finals system won't change. That would not have been an issue is they didn't completely **** up the relative conference strengths.
 

Rob

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The AFL aren't going to cut the season by a game and put 2 teams on the bye each week. They'll just play one cross-conference game whether people like it or not.
I tend to agree with you, but it obviously screws up the integrity of the fixture.

Given the league aren't going to run with a 13 round season, conferences are by far the fairest way to run the comp.
 

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I tend to agree with you, but it obviously screws up the integrity of the fixture.

Given the league aren't going to run with a 13 round season, conferences are by far the fairest way to run the comp.
17 teams into 22 doesn't go either, but we have it in the AFL. I assume with 14 teams they'll play a final 6, in which case it's hard to argue that 4th place in a conference has been dudded.
 

radiojake

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Thread starter #219
if they keep it at two 7-team conferences, then they absolutely cannot do any cross-conference games unless it comes to a finals like system - that way the criticisms of stronger conferences are irrelevant

but they wont keep it like that
 
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