Opinion Laidley v Scott

[ChoppyGun]

This is a coaching thread not a personal one, but I am biased I think Deano genuinely hurt when we lost.

Scott so measured as "bitterly disappointed" etc.

Always rated Deano and still do.

 

[Only Forwards]

People are kidding themselves if they think Laidley was better than Scott. His finals record was shocking. In the finals we played under Laidley we were never really a chance.

2005
- smashed by port in the elimination
2007
- smashed by Geelong in the qualifying
- beat an upcoming hawthorn team
- smashed by Port Adelaide in the prelim
2008
- beaten by Sydney (should had a double chance but lost to Port at the MCG)

2015/2016 was our window under Brad. Say what you like but we just needed a bit of luck to go our way against the Eagles after being 20pts up early on and we had one foot into a grand final. That was the one that we blew. Waite kicks that goal in the first to put us up by 28 early on, we win. I was over there, we had them on toast.

2016 10-1. Hawthorn game we fell off the cliff but if Higgins, Waite and Jacobs stay fit who knows.

Brad made us relevant and competitive in the modern competition. Sure he didn’t leave the list in a good shape but which departed coach does. He had a crack and boy we had some unbelievable wins under Brad. Good discussion. Brad for me.

No Laidley and we would not have a club today.

In 2006 we finished 3rd from the bottom. Making it the second worst AFL era year behind this one.

We had a list no one rated. We had facilities that were falling apart and being repaired by one of our players who also happened to be a chippy.

We had immense media pressure and scrutiny about being offered ridiculous money to relocate whilst being white anted from the inside.

Laidley took all of that and ran to top 4.

Which then allowed people to be able to point and say see even with nothing we have our fight and can football.

Conversely Brad had everything. Every god damn thing. and in a decade we never ran top 4. Not once.

Ultimately they were both limited coaches. But in terms of who was better, from a club perspective, it's Laids. What Laidley gave us is incomparable to what Brad did. The only way Brad would have topped what Laidley was able to do in 07 would have been to win number 5.

You can throw whatever stats you want at it. However there are intangibles in football and this is one.

 

[Bend_It_Like_Brown]

No Laidley and we would not have a club today.

In 2006 we finished 3rd from the bottom. Making it the second worst AFL era year behind this one.

We had a list no one rated. We had facilities that were falling apart and being repaired by one of our players who also happened to be a chippy.

We had immense media pressure and scrutiny about being offered ridiculous money to relocate whilst being white anted from the inside.

Laidley took all of that and ran to top 4.

Which then allowed people to be able to point and say see even with nothing we have our fight and can football.

Conversely Brad had everything. Every god damn thing. and in a decade we never ran top 4. Not once.

Ultimately they were both limited coaches. But in terms of who was better, from a club perspective, it's Laids. What Laidley gave us is incomparable to what Brad did. The only way Brad would have topped what Laidley was able to do in 07 would have been to win number 5.

You can throw whatever stats you want at it. However there are intangibles in football and this is one.

I agreed in 2007 Laidley did very well with what he had and took us to top 4 but we were just making up the numbers. Do you really think 'Keep North South' was going to not happen if we didn't finish in the top 4? I agree it helped but either way we were going to fight for this football club even had we finished last in 2007.

Laidley's record was very similar to Brad's but a worse in finals.

2003 - 11 wins / 10th position
2004 - 10 wins / 10th position
2005 - 13 wins / 5th position (Smashed vs Port)
2006 - 7 wins / 14th position
2007 - 14 wins / 4th postion (Smashed vs Cats, Good win vs Hawks, Smashed vs Port)
2008 - 12 wins / 7th position (Beaten by Swans)
2009 - 7 wins / 13 position (Dean left mid year)

The argument Brad had everything is a poor one. If he had everything at his disposal, why didn't we win a flag? Yes we had better facilities from the previous regime but nothing elite compared to Collingwood, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney. Under Brad did we have any consistent year in and year out A graders? We had players who were capable and did it for a year but not over a 5 year period. You could argue even in 2016 Boomer was our most damaging player. A 38 year old. Brad didn't have everything. Brad got us very close to a Grand Final position with an ageing list. In my opinion, I'd take Brad over Laids. One burning question I have always had, had the Duck not left in 2002 would Laids early years have been different?

 

[Only Forwards]

I agreed in 2007 Laidley did very well with what he had and took us to top 4 but we were just making up the numbers. Do you really think 'Keep North South' was going to not happen if we didn't finish in the top 4? I agree it helped but either way we were going to fight for this football club even had we finished last in 2007.

Laidley's record was very similar to Brad's but a worse in finals.

2003 - 11 wins / 10th position
2004 - 10 wins / 10th position
2005 - 13 wins / 5th position (Smashed vs Port)
2006 - 7 wins / 14th position
2007 - 14 wins / 4th postion (Smashed vs Cats, Good win vs Hawks, Smashed vs Port)
2008 - 12 wins / 7th position (Beaten by Swans)
2009 - 7 wins / 13 position (Dean left mid year)

The argument Brad had everything is a poor one. If he had everything at his disposal, why didn't we win a flag? Yes we had better facilities from the previous regime but nothing elite compared to Collingwood, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney. Under Brad did we have any consistent year in and year out A graders? We had players who were capable and did it for a year but not over a 5 year period. You could argue even in 2016 Boomer was our most damaging player. A 38 year old. Brad didn't have everything. Brad got us very close to a Grand Final position with an ageing list. In my opinion, I'd take Brad over Laids. One burning question I have always had, had the Duck not left in 2002 would Laids early years have been different?

Keep North South was going to happen but without having something onfield to point to then the ability to fight becomes hamstrung. If we'd back up 2006 with another bottom of the ladder finish then it severely hampers the effort IMO.

Compared to Laidely off field Brad had significantly more. During Laidley's tenure our gym was the old social club and players got a membership to Doherty's gym. Suggesting we had nothing elite during Brad's tenure means that comparatively we had significatnly less during Laids. yet as you say they had very similar records. So by virtue of that Laidley did more with less.

In terms of players at their disposal each had their limitations. Brad got us to 2 prelims running versions of the triple towers. In 2007 Corey Jones was our CHF.

While the point of a choice is moot. I actually think in a situation where you could have both working together their combined strengths would hide the others weaknesses.

 

[BigRedRoo]

Both coached far to long and should have gone after 5 seasons.

 

[koshari]

the first few years of brad was pretty entertaining football to watch, i was bored senseless with laids game. as others have said he prolly didnt have the cattle, other than wells and an aging shagger there were really not a lot of other entertaining players. i suppose you could put Sav down for a few highlights. Laids list was a true shinboner list of blokes who prolly played above themselves for some time.

 

[Snojet]

I forget what year, around 2007(?) and massive underdogs against Hawks in a final.

We outcoached and outplayed them despite undermanned on talent, and whilst ugly/defensive win, bloody hell I loved it - tough as win.

I remember having a big night after until I couldn't remember the rest.

Was that the game where Josh Gibson totally blanketed Buddy? Unfortunately Hawks then came hunting for him. I think it was Jesse Smith’s break out game

 

[ChoppyGun]

Was that the game where Josh Gibson totally blanketed Buddy? Unfortunately Hawks then came hunting for him. I think it was Jesse Smith’s break out game

Not sure mate but whilst ugly it was bloody brilliant. (I don't care how we win)

I loved that win as massive underdogs and Deano outsmarted Clarkson tactically.

Was a true Shinboner performance.

 

[Dan]

Hard to judge.

I think the biggest thing both coaches endured in their tenures at the club was not being able to do a full reset on the list. Occasionally we'd get a decent pick in the draft but we kept topping up with older players.

It kept us in that middle tier of teams........not bottom 4 but zero chance of winning a premiership.

 

[benbanjo]

They would have worked well together IMO, Laidley was the better game day coach, saw things unfold and adjusted, something Scott could never really get a handle on. Scott was good at other things, but game day coaching was not one of them.

 

[Luke72]

Both coached far to long and should have gone after 5 seasons.

I agree, it felt like we had to coax both of them into extensions when it was 50/50 whether we should. While I agree with backing a coach in (ie Bomber Thomson, Hardwick or Hinkley now) they need to really want to do it 100%