Lance Franklin vs Gary Ablett Jnr

[jackenny]

Franklin could get injured next week & never play again....I deal with actuality, not fairy-land stuff, where punters get carried-away after a single weeks performance.

Buddy wouldn't even be in Hawthorn's Top 10 ever with all of Matthews, Hudson, Tuck, Dunstall, Mitchell, Hodge, Knights, Crawford, Platten, Brereton all well ahead of him.....And even if he was still playing for us, he still wouldn't be ahead of any of em.

Enough of the nonsense already.....He's kicked one tonne in his career & only twice kicked 10 or more.

How many times has Brereton kicked over 100 goals in a season? Zero times. The most goals he's ever kicked in a home & away season is 56, 64 including finals.

Do you know how many times Buddy has kicked more goals than Brereton's best ever year including finals? Five times. At the Hawks. He's beaten it three more times at Sydney. Aside from that: in one year, he simply equalled 64 goals but still scored more behinds. Another year he kicked "only" 60 goals. The only years Buddy has kicked 50 goals or less at the Hawks were his second year in 2006 (31 goals), and his first year in 2005 (21 goals).

How many times has Brereton kicked 10 or more in a game? Once.

How many games has Brereton played for the Hawks? 189. 7 more than Buddy.

How many goals in total has Brereton kicked for the Hawks? 427. 153 goals less than Buddy.

What about their respective careers at Sydney?

Brereton: 7 games, 7 goals.
Buddy: 91 games, 292 goals.

I suppose Brereton is a better chance at becoming a Collingwood legend than Buddy, though.

 

[Bardo State]

I really struggle to separate them. I could convince myself either way.

I think there's a bigger gap between Franklin and the next best forwards of his time than there is between Ablett and the next best mids of his time. But they both largely existed in an era of midfielders, where a good midfield could decide the outcome of a game more than a good forward could. So I think Ablett has done 'more' over his career to positively influence the outcome of games.

But would I pick Ablett instead of Franklin and then take Nick Riewoldt, Jarryd Roughead, Jack Riewoldt, Josh Kennedy or Matthew Pavlich as my KPF, or would I pick Franklin first then go with Chris Judd, Dane Swan, Sam Mitchell, Scott Pendlebury or Patrick Dangerfield for my starting mid? I'd go the latter scenario every time.

Where does that leave the answer to the question? Dunno.

 

[Procrastinator35]

This is some seriously trollish posting, even for you.

Absolutely Buddy is in the mix for top 5 ever players.

How old are you?

If you want to argue that Buddy is the most naturally gifted footballer ever, then you won't get any arguments from me.

He is also the footballer who failed to adequately apply himself in turning those God given talents, by making himself the best player ever.

What a waste.....I saw it at Hawthorn ever since 2008....it culminated in his utter meltdown in all confidence in his goal-kicking on the biggest stage of them all, when he blew away the 2012 Flag for us because of it.

 

[Procrastinator35]

How many times has Brereton kicked over 100 goals in a season? Zero times. The most goals he's ever kicked in a home & away season is 56, 64 including finals.

Do you know how many times Buddy has kicked more goals than Brereton's best ever year including finals? Five times. At the Hawks. He's beaten it three more times at Sydney. Aside from that: in one year, he simply equalled 64 goals but still scored more behinds. Another year he kicked "only" 60 goals. The only years Buddy has kicked 50 goals or less at the Hawks were his second year in 2006 (31 goals), and his first year in 2005 (21 goals).

How many times has Brereton kicked 10 or more in a game? Once.

How many games has Brereton played for the Hawks? 189. 7 more than Buddy.

How many goals in total has Brereton kicked for the Hawks? 427. 153 goals less than Buddy.

What about their respective careers at Sydney?

Brereton: 7 games, 7 goals.
Buddy: 91 games, 292 goals.

I suppose Brereton is a better chance at becoming a Collingwood legend than Buddy, though.

Brereton's record in finals & big games is far superior to Buddys.....He has 5 premierships to Buddy's 2 & was instrumental in us winning most of them.

Buddy had a terrific finals game in 2007 & one in 2008, where he kicked 7 & 8 goals respectively.....Though he rarely delivered on the big stage thereafter & was always beaten & well held by Lonergan/Taylor & Scarlett.....Murdered in fact, would be closer to the mark.

Brereton would never have allowed that to happen to him.....Brereton's body was gone before he sauntered off to Sydney & Collingwood in order to limp to 200 games....He was shot as a result of using his body as a battering-ram for 11 seasons with us....Which yielded 8 Grand Final appearances, a Preliminary final & two more finals placings.

Brereton also had Dunstall as the permanent full-forward, whereas Buddy would chop & change whereby he would often be placed at full-forward throughout games.....The 1 game where Derm did kick 10 goals - as you mentioned - was when Dunstall was out injured & he filled in at full-forward against Richmond out at Princes Park.....I was there that day.

Only Dipper & Mitchell come close to being big game performers in finals to rival the likes of Brereton.....Buds isn't even in the conversation.

 

[MinerBoy]

GAJ is in the conversation for greatest of all time

Not if you've seen more than 15 years of footy.

Anyway, GAJ gets the midfielders accolades but I'd take Buddy every day of the week.

 

[MinerBoy]

Buddy reached his zenith in 2008 & has never risen to those heights again since.

He got distracted by the fame & the limelight & it went to his head.....He could have been the greatest player ever, but he blew it, in allowing his head to be turned towards other things which drew his focus away from developing himself as a footballer & his game further.....Bit late now to change that legacy.

While 2008 was his greatest individual season the rest is clearly wrong. He has continued to be a dominant force in the game and is playing great football still.

 

[MinerBoy]

How old are you?

If you want to argue that Buddy is the most naturally gifted footballer ever, then you won't get any arguments from me.

He is also the footballer who failed to adequately apply himself in turning those God given talents, by making himself the best player ever.

What a waste.....I saw it at Hawthorn ever since 2008....it culminated in his utter meltdown in all confidence in his goal-kicking on the biggest stage of them all, when he blew away the 2012 Flag for us because of it.

Yeah those 70m bombs that kept us in the game were costly. He was massive that day.

 

[blitzer]

So am I missing something or has Franklin never won a best and fairest award for either Hawthorn or Sydney?

You'd have to say that counts against him when comparing him to the all round juggernaut that is GAJ.

 

[Procrastinator35]

While 2008 was his greatest individual season the rest is clearly wrong. He has continued to be a dominant force in the game and is playing great football still.

No....He has neither grown nor developed as a footballer since.....and has fundamentally relied upon his God-given talents - which are many - to provide an average output (For his abilities) since.

Yeah those 70m bombs that kept us in the game were costly. He was massive that day.

Sure....And so was his meltdown in complete confidence in his goal-kicking ability......Couldn't hit the side of a barn at the end.

As I said....All his chickens came home to roost that day.

In 2013 Clarko basically used him as a decoy to enable the rest of our forward-line to get the job done....All he did that day was to kick a single gifted 50 meter penalty goal.....And we all know the results of his 2 Sydney Grand Finals....Sure, he was good against us, but he was so very costly for Sydney against the Doggies at crucial stages of that match.

Our forward-line, team balance & cohesion, has been so much better ever since he left.

 

[MinerBoy]

So am I missing something or has Franklin never won a best and fairest award for either Hawthorn or Sydney?

You'd have to say that counts against him when comparing him to the all round juggernaut that is GAJ.

Won 2008 at Hawks.

 

[beta_condition]

So am I missing something or has Franklin never won a best and fairest award for either Hawthorn or Sydney?

You'd have to say that counts against him when comparing him to the all round juggernaut that is GAJ.

Garry Ablett won 2 with Geelong and Franklin won one with Hawthorn, unless you wanna count his participation best and fairest awards that he won at Gold Coast. Theyre hard to win in good sides, which Franklin has always been apart of since 2007.

 

[Simon_Says]

Arguably the two best players of the last 20 years and even though their careers are not done yet, who do you think has been the better player?

Buddy
272 games
Goals - 868 goals
2 premierships
7 All Australians
4 Coleman medals
10 times leading goal kicker (at club)

Bud won Hawks B&F in 2008.
For OP has won Peter Crimins Medal

 

[Simon_Says]

Franklin could very well be the most Athletic player ive ever seen play.

Not often do u find a guy his size that can move as fast as he does. Case in point that famous run down the wing agaisnt Essendon on Cale Hooker goal from 48m out.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Franklin could very well be the most Athletic player ive ever seen play.

Not often do u find a guy his size that can move as fast as he does. Case in point that famous run down the wing agaisnt Essendon on Cale Hooker goal from 48m out.

As Clarko's missus pointed out: "That guy runs like an Emu."

Who else can kick the ball 70 meters off a hook-foot like Buddy can?.....Imagine what he would have been had he applied himself to his game like Sam Mitchell did.....Scary thought really, though that's the nature of the beast I guess....One bloke with not much God given ability improves his game by 5% every year through sheer hard-work, application & determination....While the other bloke glides through life with the best athletically gifted skills you could ever wish for.

Buddy for the highlights reel.....Mitchell for the leadership, consistency, reliability & premierships.

 

[juss]

Right now, I'd say GAJ. His time at Geelong was the best midfielder I've seen.
However, by the end of their careers, I reckon I'm gonna say Franklin. I just feel like he is good for a few more 50+ goal seasons, and that will sway it his way.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

How old are you?

If you want to argue that Buddy is the most naturally gifted footballer ever, then you won't get any arguments from me.

He is also the footballer who failed to adequately apply himself in turning those God given talents, by making himself the best player ever.

What a waste.....I saw it at Hawthorn ever since 2008....it culminated in his utter meltdown in all confidence in his goal-kicking on the biggest stage of them all, when he blew away the 2012 Flag for us because of it.

You certainly would from me.

 

[Papa G]

Gun Forwards are much harder to come by than gun midfielders. Buddy, and it ain't even close.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You certainly would from me.

You're right....I shouldn't besmirch Cyril like that.

 

[Elite Master]

No....He has neither grown nor developed as a footballer since.....and has fundamentally relied upon his God-given talents - which are many - to provide an average output (For his abilities) since.

Wrong again. Franklin is arguably getting better. Leads the competition in goals, contested marks, inside 50s and score involvements. Like I said earlier in this thread; kicking goals isn't the only thing Buddy can do, compared to 2008 he is a more complete and well rounded player with all his work around the ground.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

How old are you?

If you want to argue that Buddy is the most naturally gifted footballer ever, then you won't get any arguments from me.

He is also the footballer who failed to adequately apply himself in turning those God given talents, by making himself the best player ever.

What a waste.....I saw it at Hawthorn ever since 2008....it culminated in his utter meltdown in all confidence in his goal-kicking on the biggest stage of them all, when he blew away the 2012 Flag for us because of it.

Your opinion on this is terrible.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Your opinion on this is terrible.

That's no argument.....Merely an obnoxious way of saying you disagree with my position.

Wrong again. Franklin is arguably getting better. Leads the competition in goals, contested marks, inside 50s and score involvements. Like I said earlier in this thread; kicking goals isn't the only thing Buddy can do, compared to 2008 he is a more complete and well rounded player with all his work around the ground.

No....All the facts say that Buds 2008 was his zenith.....And he has yet to reproduce a season to equal it since....Which amounts to an entire decade of below-par footy from him.

Sure, we all know he's the best forward in the comp....And with his God given physical qualities he should be....But he has seriously under-achieved, particularly in his last few years at Hawthorn, where we won the cup in spite of him & not because of him.

 

[Elite Master]

That's no argument.....Merely an obnoxious way of saying you disagree with my position.



No....All the facts say that Buds 2008 was his zenith.....And he has yet to reproduce a season to equal it since....Which amounts to an entire decade of below-par footy from him.

Sure, we all know he's the best forward in the comp....And with his God given physical qualities he should be....But he has seriously under-achieved, particularly in his last few years at Hawthorn, where we won the cup in spite of him & not because of him.

No wrong. The facts read multiple Coleman Medals and AA's since 2008 which state otherwise.

You have a very old fashion and simplistic view of analyzing players.

 

[Procrastinator35]

No wrong. The facts read multiple Coleman Medals and AA's since 2008 which state otherwise.

You have a very old fashion and simplistic view of analyzing players.

He may well compare favourably to most other forwards, but he has still let himself down rather badly with regards to his own legacy & what he could have been.

He chose mediocrity, which for his abilities, is still far superior to most.

Roughy has 4 Flags to Buddy's 2....Enough said.

 

[The King!]

Just happy to have seen both play

 

[The King!]

Brereton's record in finals & big games is far superior to Buddys.....He has 5 premierships to Buddy's 2 & was instrumental in us winning most of them.

Buddy had a terrific finals game in 2007 & one in 2008, where he kicked 7 & 8 goals respectively.....Though he rarely delivered on the big stage thereafter & was always beaten & well held by Lonergan/Taylor & Scarlett.....Murdered in fact, would be closer to the mark.

Brereton would never have allowed that to happen to him.....Brereton's body was gone before he sauntered off to Sydney & Collingwood in order to limp to 200 games....He was shot as a result of using his body as a battering-ram for 11 seasons with us....Which yielded 8 Grand Final appearances, a Preliminary final & two more finals placings.

Brereton also had Dunstall as the permanent full-forward, whereas Buddy would chop & change whereby he would often be placed at full-forward throughout games.....The 1 game where Derm did kick 10 goals - as you mentioned - was when Dunstall was out injured & he filled in at full-forward against Richmond out at Princes Park.....I was there that day.

Only Dipper & Mitchell come close to being big game performers in finals to rival the likes of Brereton.....Buds isn't even in the conversation.

Clearly you had a buddy guernsey, then he left so now you pretends its for Derm, its ok we get it