Last night proved that we don't need the Grand Final at the MCG anymore.

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doppleganger

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victorian poast are victorian poast

if a ground holds 60% of the mcg put the prices up for seats to match

still cheaper than flying to melbourne with hotels etc
What about the cream all 18 clubs put onto their premium membership packages that offer guaranteed GF rights if the club makes it....if clubs will only be given 12k instead of 17k tickets at a smaller venue, ALL clubs will lose out.

And if you are rotating, the likelihood is the Eagles are still flying anyway.

Eagles play in a GABBA/SCG GF, you are up for even more expensive flights and a ticket that is 3-4 times more expensive than at the G...
 

Coolangatta

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Love how you worked the SCG into the mix. You cannot be serious wanting to play the grand final on a postage stamp. Jesus even I could kick a goal from the '50' metre arc.
Maybe have it at ANZ instead, but people say getting to the ground is a pain and it's a weird atmosphere for footy. If I were going to rotate the grand finals, I'd have it at the MCG every second year and WA/SA/QLD/NSW in the gap years. But I still think it'd be better if the team which finishes top hosts it in their home state. Or, if it stays at the G which it's going to, then interstate sides play all their games against Victorian opponents at the MCG to maximise ground exposure.
 

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FreoFan85

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?
No the argument is that the MCG currently allocates about 35-40k tickets to members of competing clubs.

Most clubs have tiered membership categories where people pay a premium to get a GF ticket if their clubs make it. That is just bonus revenue for clubs.
Yes our club does the same thing, but to be honest do i really care if Hawthorn or Melbourne or Port Adelaide for that matter are able to earn some extra revenue, as a ballot type experience. There are plenty of ways to bring in money not relying on the grand final ticket. This is not a significant reason to stop the grand final being shipped. Plus the clubs could still do this for their interstate members, you know the ones that fork out year in and year out for a sticker pack and possibly 1 or 2 games, buy all the merchandise and watch every game religiously, these guys are just as loyal to the ones that live in Melbourne (if not more so, as it would be difficult to rarely get to see your team play live). If the Grand final was played in Adelaide scheduled for 2023, the Collingwood supporters that live in Adelaide could also put in for the grand final package at whatever cost the club wanted. Yes they would not have as many tickets to allocate, but the amount would not revert to 0. If you were to charge an extra amount hell you might even make a gain.

?

The AFL also gives every listed player a couple of tickets, all the life members etc and guess where majority of them are based...
Why is there a need for this? Sure the 44 players that are out there having two tickets makes sense, but why does every player need to get a ticket to the grand final. They are paid a handsome amount of money to be entertainers to the masses, when they aren't on show they don't need to go. I get the life members and am happy with that, but hey if they don't want to go because of travel then so be it. Just like there are life members in other states that might not go every year.

?

The league plays the GF at the biggest stadium possible, just like basically all Aussie rules comps in Australia.

That isn’t because of tradition

It is the financial model, and catering to the market...which is again the east coast.

The regional fans always cop the rough end of the pineapple, as the big cities always get the bigger events...no different on a national scale.

If you want to blow everything up and start again, then yeah you would go with a minor premier hosts type of deal.
Some things purely don't have to revolve around the financial model right now. If we did this the game would never grow (ultimately making it more profitable). Do you think the China game is operating as a positive cashflow right now? Or the fact the GWS and Gold Coast exist? What about the fact that we play games in Darwin or Tasmania? Investing money into the Under 18 AFL Carnivals? AFLW? None of these make financial sense... for now. But take the AFLW for instance, how many girls have enrolled into Auskick after seeing this. How many have bought a guernsey, or a drink bottle, attended a game. This is all revenue that you can't see at first glance... but it is there. The same goes for having the AFL GrandFinal in other locations that are unlikely to be able to attend.

Maybe they would even be able to sell the TV rights for more money (to "cater for the market" which is in the East Coast).

?
If you want to blow everything up and start again, then yeah you would go with a minor premier hosts type of deal.
So why can't this be done right now? Figuratively obviously. I would be more than happy with minor premier hosts, but failing that i would like to see it be rotated around.

?
Do you then give a QLD based Pie member access over someone who has been a social club member for the last 30 years??

The problem with rotating is that you are depriving fans of the chance to see their team witness a live GF.

And if you are going to 40k at the GABBa, then what about 35k at Geelong? Or what about 25k at Gold Coast?

Where do you draw the line and why?

If you are being ‘fair’ Geelong and Gold Coast fans deserve the exposure just as much as Perth.
Biggest stadium in the state seems fair. Geelong get the real rough end of the stick, but there members are still only a 1hr drive away. Brisbane and Gold Coast are not that far apart, nor are Sydney/GWS. Obviously Freo/Wce and Port/Adelaide would not be an issue.


My last question for you doppelganger is how many GF's have you personally been to and have you been to one without your team playing?
 

Mister M

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Before I respond to FreoFan85's specific points--- remember that the current Grand Final contact gave the AFL $225 mil to update Marvel Stadium (an asset currently used to get the loan to support the 2020 season) and another $275 mil towards the upgrade of other facilities that the AFL uses within Victoria (training grounds, AFL grounds, etc.)

Yes our club does the same thing, but to be honest do i really care if Hawthorn or Melbourne or Port Adelaide for that matter are able to earn some extra revenue, as a ballot type experience. There are plenty of ways to bring in money not relying on the grand final ticket. This is not a significant reason to stop the grand final being shipped. Plus the clubs could still do this for their interstate members, you know the ones that fork out year in and year out for a sticker pack and possibly 1 or 2 games, buy all the merchandise and watch every game religiously, these guys are just as loyal to the ones that live in Melbourne (if not more so, as it would be difficult to rarely get to see your team play live). If the Grand final was played in Adelaide scheduled for 2023, the Collingwood supporters that live in Adelaide could also put in for the grand final package at whatever cost the club wanted. Yes they would not have as many tickets to allocate, but the amount would not revert to 0. If you were to charge an extra amount hell you might even make a gain.
But Grand Final guarantee packages ARE a financial stream for all 18 clubs. For some of the larger clubs the Grand Final guarantee memberships now have waitlists and are sold out annually, regardless of where the club is on the ladder. Even if Victorian North Melbourne supporters know their club is currently struggling they may continue their Grand Final guarantee for years if they know WHEN North Melbourne makes it that the game will be at the MCG.

If there's a 50% chance it's at the MCG and a 50% chance it will be somewhere else that member is likely to drop that Grand Final guarantee and the club loses that money.

Or in the situation of Richmond/Collingwood it's likely that Grand Final guarantees would be available for SA/WA/QLD based members for the year the GF is in that state because members will still sign up for the guarantee for the years they can make the game.

Why is there a need for this? Sure the 44 players that are out there having two tickets makes sense, but why does every player need to get a ticket to the grand final. They are paid a handsome amount of money to be entertainers to the masses, when they aren't on show they don't need to go. I get the life members and am happy with that, but hey if they don't want to go because of travel then so be it. Just like there are life members in other states that might not go every year.
The AFL players get 2x Grand Final tickets every year because that's been negotiated by the AFLPA.

What would the AFL need to give up financially (in terms of % of revenue to players, other conditions, etc.) to get that out of the current agreement between the players & the clubs?
 

FreoFan85

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Before I respond to FreoFan85's specific points--- remember that the current Grand Final contact gave the AFL $225 mil to update Marvel Stadium (an asset currently used to get the loan to support the 2020 season) and another $275 mil towards the upgrade of other facilities that the AFL uses within Victoria (training grounds, AFL grounds, etc.)

But Grand Final guarantee packages ARE a financial stream for all 18 clubs. For some of the larger clubs the Grand Final guarantee memberships now have waitlists and are sold out annually, regardless of where the club is on the ladder. Even if Victorian North Melbourne supporters know their club is currently struggling they may continue their Grand Final guarantee for years if they know WHEN North Melbourne makes it that the game will be at the MCG.

If there's a 50% chance it's at the MCG and a 50% chance it will be somewhere else that member is likely to drop that Grand Final guarantee and the club loses that money.

Or in the situation of Richmond/Collingwood it's likely that Grand Final guarantees would be available for SA/WA/QLD based members for the year the GF is in that state because members will still sign up for the guarantee for the years they can make the game.
I get your point that some people on waiting lists would not list if they knew the GF was not going to be in their state for multiple years, but interstate clubs currently deal with this now and they still have people signing up. There are other ways around this like you purchase tickets for the the ballot for 3 years, 5 years etc which would also alleviate this. It might even mean some interstate members would purchase that might not normally to hope they got lucky on the 1 time in x amount of years it was in their home state.

Yes all 18 clubs benefit from it currently, but the 10 Victorian teams benefit the most (with a higher population of your membership able to easily attend), but you best believe that if there was a chance it was in WA/SA/NSW etc members who were in that state would have many more members opt in to the ballot and thus raise more money for their club. Should the grand final not be moved because the 10 Victorian clubs earn some extra income in a ballot?

The AFL players get 2x Grand Final tickets every year because that's been negotiated by the AFLPA.

What would the AFL need to give up financially (in terms of % of revenue to players, other conditions, etc.) to get that out of the current agreement between the players & the clubs?
Everything is negotiable.
 

Mister M

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Should the grand final not be moved because the 10 Victorian clubs earn some extra income in a ballot?
That’s not the reason I’m suggesting is why the Grand Final isn’t being moved— thats at the top of my previous post (The Vic Government contact). I’m simply responding to your post suggesting that your view is coming from an individualistic perspective rather than analysing the AFL as a business.

The AFL has many stakeholders (from the clubs & players through to government grants, tv rights holders, etc.). The interests of these groups are significantly more important to the AFL than the ‘average fan’.

What the ‘average fan’ thinks is FAIR isn’t going to pay the Bills— the contact with the Victorian government is. Where do you suggest the AFL finds $500 million to terminate the GF contract.

What happens to the AFL when the Vic government isn’t on side with the competition? It will be much harder for the competition to run.

It’s a much bigger picture to look at than if it’s affordable for something in Perth to attend a GF.
 

Rich01

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Brisbane did a good job but not good enough to start a GF rotation discussion.

The only ground that could have done that was Optus and unfortunately for WA football supporters, their government dropped the ball on this incredible opportunity.
 

Jason mp

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Andyy

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As a Tiger fan I don't really care where it's held.

If they only let 34,000 club members in then what does it matter?

If club members were given priority (and they should be) then bigger stadiums would be more ideal. Fan engagement is a joke if you don't let them in the gates when it matters.
 

telsor

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As a Tiger fan I don't really care where it's held.

If they only let 34,000 club members in then what does it matter?

If club members were given priority (and they should be) then bigger stadiums would be more ideal. Fan engagement is a joke if you don't let them in the gates when it matters.
Because anywhere else would have (far) fewer than 34K club members get seats.
 

Andyy

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Because anywhere else would have (far) fewer than 34K club members get seats.
How many fan seats at GABBA this year?

I guess the idea is that the higher-placed team should get a 'home' GF.

In that case GABBA is too small with regards to that but there are clearly other stadiums that can handle the event.

I would be more amenable to the idea if the AFL let fans have a higher % of the seats is what I'm saying.
 

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telsor

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How many fan seats at GABBA this year?

I guess the idea is that the higher-placed team should get a 'home' GF.

In that case GABBA is too small with regards to that but there are clearly other stadiums that can handle the event.

I would be more amenable to the idea if the AFL let fans have a higher % of the seats is what I'm saying.
Wont happen. If there are cuts to seat numbers, then some groups can't be cut (e.g. players, life members) and others wont be (sponsors, corporates, VIPs, Premium AFL members, etc).

So if you lose 20K seats, you can bet that at least 10, probably 15K of those will be from the club members. (and any cuts to club members will go from the 'rank and file' first, as club sponsors, coteries, etc will always come first for similar reasons).
 

Goomba1973

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Yeah...... nahhh. The G is the G and it should stay that way. The only other stadium that is even worth a mention for a GF outside of the G is Optus but McGowen buggered that one up.
 

Goomba1973

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Who cares about that?
Entertainment was sh*t last night anyway.
I agree, the half time bollocks is just a time filler, I went to the 1993GF and the 2018GF and the G was just fantastic, and Melbourne is an amazing place to be on the week prior to the GF. Although from a viewing the game standpoint Optus is better.
 

Rimmer

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Queensland did a wonderful job of keeping our game alive in 2020. I think the G is still the best for future Grand Finals because it can fit in 100k though you can get rid of the night grand final, who cares if the lighting and bands and entertainment are more colourful, do we go to a grand final to see fireworks or to watch the final game of our football season. Who wants to go out and celebrate at midnight and how drunk would everyone be by the time a game started at 7.40 in the evening after a day of steady 'preparation'

The other thing is the ground is not important, consider the grand final result was the same in 2020 at the Gabba as it was in 2019 at the MCG😉
 

garlic munchers

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AFL has an agreement with the state government to keep the grand final in Victoria, no chance they'll break it and piss the government off and risk losing funding.
The per annum return of that deal is chickenfeed.

Bit like the Feds buying a $3 million piece of land for $30m, corrupt.

Could have earned far more $ by rotating the GF and encouraging fence sitting Australians to embrace a truly national game.

30 odd years ago you had the VFL only, do you think in another 30 years time numerically, the Vic clubs will be the majority?

Roos moving or being terminated, will make the decision making process of the AFL going forward, really interesting.
 

TigerTime88

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MCG is shithouse for the entertainment element, pre game and half time stuff. At the ground and on tv the sound is rubbish and the stadium is too big for it. Last night was way better. The tv ratings is interesting, was it the time slot or was it due to Covid factors of less people at pubs, live sites, gatherings.
Does anyone actually care about the entertainment? The entertainment is the game.
 

Choogler

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It would be a huge issue for the majority of supporters every year it is away from the G.

In a normal season how the heck are you going to hv a GF at 40k GaBBA when you hv what 35k club members who are normally entitled to a ticket.

@@
club allocations would be reduced and members would go into a ballot just like they do every year regardless of who is in the GF @@

Throw in another 10-15k AFL members (a majority with competing club support)

@@ Well there's about 10000 people you probably don't have to accommodate. @@

Then all the corporate tickets

@@Nothing anyone can do about this! @@

The club members will be the ones getting shafted...every year it is not at the G.

@@ I suggest you have a look at the AFL distribution of tickets to see how many members of the competing teams actually get tickets now. It ain't many, Eg: even WCE members go into a ballot when they make a GF.
I can guarantee you that in a Richmond v Collingwood GF over 100,000 members would "get shafted". The figure would be much higher if it wasn't for the fact that Victorian based supporters having easier access to the unsold allocations made to the non-competing clubs. @@

It ain’t the same

There are 18 teams, with 16 of the 18 teams are based east of Nullarbor

153 possible GF combinations

Just 1 involves 2 teams traveling west across the Nullarbor ~ 0.6% chance

120 would involve 2 teams travelling east across the Nullarbor ~ 80% chance

Why would you ‘rotate’ to WA when you know there is an 80% chance that both competing teams are based on east coast, and you will have ~ 40k competing club support members who are normally entitled to a ticket
need to somehow get across the country??

@@ FFS, its a national competition with thousands upon thousands of local and expat supporters of ALL TEAMS. Many of these supporters for financial, health or other reasons can't travel to Melbourne. Tell me if I'm wrong, but don't these people have a right as supporters to have some hope of seeing a GF in their lifetime? I actually think that the 47 year contract is downright disrespectful to, and discriminates against these people. All from an organisation that pumps itself up as a leader in inclusivity. BTW, I've seen 4 GFs live so it ain't about me @@

Or do you not want the passionate members of the actual competing teams at the GF?

@@ we'd find out how passionate they are if it meant more than a trip across the street to watch their team @@


No the current scenario is what you described - only a select number of supporters are inconvenienced

isn’t fair, tis just the market

Rotating will just increase the % of supporters that are inconvenienced almost every year.

@@ Why can't the inconvenience be shared around, at least it wouldn't be the same supporters inconvenienced every year. @@

The WA view appears to be it ain’t fair that we cop the rough end of the pineapple, so let’s campaign for all supporters to be put out just so they can experience what ‘we’ have to.
You seriously have no idea if that is your honest opinion! I certainly believe it isn't equitable and I am also an advocate for sharing it around but not for the reasons you think!
My reasons are contained in the question below.
Do you think that all supporters of all clubs should have a reasonable opportunity to witness a GF live regardless of their financial, health or any other reason? Or, do you think stuff them, as long as Vic based supporters arent inconvenienced?
 

kranky al

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What about the cream all 18 clubs put onto their premium membership packages that offer guaranteed GF rights if the club makes it....if clubs will only be given 12k instead of 17k tickets at a smaller venue, ALL clubs will lose out.

And if you are rotating, the likelihood is the Eagles are still flying anyway.

Eagles play in a GABBA/SCG GF, you are up for even more expensive flights and a ticket that is 3-4 times more expensive than at the G...
what you continue to not understand is that a rotated grand final cuts the chances of meeting a tenant team in a gf massively.

it makes neutral gfs much much more likely.
 

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