Autopsy Late fight back not enough as dogs Bow out of finals

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LondonBulldog

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It’s lazy because you, like others, run with it when it’s a non issue.

I know why you do it, because you’ve backed him to fail in the backline and it’s a call that’s ended badly for you and quiet a few. It’s still terribly lazy by you.
I’ve been on this forum since 2002, I’ve seen know it all’s like you come and go. Accept people have different views, I think in tighter defensive football you can’t afford to lose those 1 on 1, you think it’s not an issue, different views that’s all.
 

Oliver Gigacz

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Around the ground stoppages are a strong point. Are you referring to scores from?
Depends how you define strong point, we do win a lot of stoppage clearances but we struggle to score from ball ups and throw ins, but for centre bounces we are ranked 2nd for scoring.

Crozier played up fwd last week.
True but he played 44% up forward against the Saints and only 35% against the Dockers. We should've moved him back sooner.
 

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Dog 36

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Depends how you define strong point, we do win a lot of stoppage clearances but we struggle to score from ball ups and throw ins, but for centre bounces we are ranked 2nd for scoring.



True but he played 44% up forward against the Saints and only 35% against the Dockers. We should've moved him back sooner.
Why was Crozier even playing forward?

If you can’t pick him as a defender then don’t pick him.

Pick a forward who knows how to play as a forward.
 

hutchy31

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Why was Crozier even playing forward?

If you can’t pick him as a defender then don’t pick him.

Pick a forward who knows how to play as a forward.
Play footballers in their right positions?! That’s blasphemy down Whitten Oval way.

All joking aside, you could argue that the ruck debacle is way less of an issue than the current regime’s insistence that midfielders or half backs will perform better in the forward line than small forwards.
 

Charlie Bucket

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I’ve been on this forum since 2002, I’ve seen know it all’s like you come and go. Accept people have different views, I think in tighter defensive football you can’t afford to lose those 1 on 1, you think it’s not an issue, different views that’s all.
There’s no harm in being wrong LB. Just accept it and move on. I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve made a bad call in your 18yrs on BF.
Congrats on your longevity too, fair crack.
 

Charlie Bucket

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Depends how you define strong point, we do win a lot of stoppage clearances but we struggle to score from ball ups and throw ins, but for centre bounces we are ranked 2nd for scoring.



True but he played 44% up forward against the Saints and only 35% against the Dockers. We should've moved him back sooner.
What are our scoring stats from stoppages? Wouldn’t think there all that bad.
 

hutchy31

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There’s no harm in being wrong LB. Just accept it and move on. I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve made a bad call in your 18yrs on BF.
Congrats on your longevity too, fair crack.
Condescension might make you feel superior, but my guess is many people are rolling their eyes every time you post.

I’ve only ever had one bulldogs bf poster on ignore (yes, that one) so it’s annoying to have to put another one on but that’s life.
 

Charlie Bucket

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Condescension might make you feel superior, but my guess is many people are rolling their eyes every time you post.

I’ve only ever had one bulldogs bf poster on ignore (yes, that one) so it’s annoying to have to put another one on but that’s life.
Farewell Hutchy it was good while it lasted.

 

Oliver Gigacz

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What are our scoring stats from stoppages? Wouldn’t think there all that bad.
Western Bulldogs - 2020 - Home and Away - Scores From Stoppages
From Centre Bounces we've scored 27.16 ranked 2nd.
From Throw Ins we've scored 18.23 ranked 18th.
From Ball Ups we've scored 18.18 ranked 2nd.

Overall our Strike Rate is 9.7% which is ranked 9th.
 

Charlie Bucket

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Western Bulldogs - 2020 - Home and Away - Scores From Stoppages
From Centre Bounces we've scored 27.16 ranked 2nd.
From Throw Ins we've scored 18.23 ranked 18th.
From Ball Ups we've scored 18.18 ranked 2nd.

Overall our Strike Rate is 9.7% which is ranked 9th.
Interesting. Bizarre discrepancy between the two stoppage figures.

Would expect throw ins to be a weaker area but that’s dirt poor.
 

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compact72

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Being at the game:
  • English - Cringeworthy, every time there was a bounce I was rattled (not saying his a bad player, but wow wee). Thought he could've done more to make more of an impact
  • Bruce - I've tried to be a fan, but his just hard to watch. All the people around me pretty much said the same
  • Bont - Class act, but drifted off at times
  • Naughton - Too quiet for my liking, was hoping he would've shown more presence and kicked a bag full
  • Keath - Meh, didn't sit well
  • Libba Libba Libba - Went quite for a bit but ******* love him
  • Macrae - Good but not much damage
  • Hunter - Man he does some running
  • Daniel - WTF, I thought we would've learnt not to stick him in the backline contesting marks
  • Wood - love you champ but a big decline
  • Richards - Gives it some real effort
  • JJ - Come on man, where's the run
  • Crozier - Honestly, why would you send him forward when he could've helped against King with his jumping?????
  • Saints fans - Can go EAD. Was hoping they would win finals if they won, but the fans I was around were absolute dicks.
  • Coaches - Honestly, the inside F50 was a disaster. I just looked down as soon as it went inside 50, knowing what would happen. We should've smashed the saints. Allowing Dunkley, Bont and Bruce in the ruck when you have Trengrove in the sidelines (which we traded for him not long ago). Time we move some assistants on that will challenge Bevo big time. Sooking about the 3rd man up is laughable, considering this was years ago
  • Bevo - You were outcoached and was embarrassing. Love your work sometimes but boy oh boy, so stubborn
 

perro_loco

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Last night’s hitouts and clearances

StK 31 & 24. ‘dogs 9 & 26.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/matchup?gameId=1087749

On clearances, the difference was 2, that’s a bounce of the ball or a decision by the umpire not to stop play etc. Is it

(a) Even though we lost the hitoouts, we still won (?) the clearances; or

(b) imagine what would have happened if we’d also won the hitouts. ?

I’d like to see a stat on the quality of a clearance. A tap to a running mid is a clearance but so is a scramble at the ruckmen’s feet with the winner having to bang the ball forward under pressure. Which is more likely to result in a score ? Our clearances are the latter type. Our gameplan is heavily reliant upon winning clearances, a line ball on clearances, in the circumstances, is a big loss. View (a) is a ridiculous view but it does have something going for it, it appears to be Beveridge’s view.

There was not a lot of differences between the clubs in the stats, we were in front by not much in all but kicks and hitouts. On stats, we should have won, we even had 2 more scoring shots. So why did we lose ? The trouble with watching a game on TV is that you only see what’s happening around the ball. Why was it that St Kilda players always seemed to be in front, that our entries into the forward 50 seemed to pick out St Kilda defenders, that Wallis could slot an almost impossible goal from the boundary on his right foot but miss 2 from dead in front, that Smith missed an absolute sitter when the game was there to be won ? I don’t think it was deficiencies in the playing group that was responsible, it was simply bad kicking, that’s above the shoulders stuff.
I think this is a good point. Hunter also missed as sitter and in finals bad kicking is bad footy. Scoring a goal, like the one Smith missed changes the whole complexion of the game. I still believe though that have a decent backup ruckman will help develop Tim to be a better ruck.
 

perro_loco

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I'm just amazed at the negativity at English right now.

I'm sure if we don't want him, he'll have a long list of clubs that will be happy to have him, and probs end up a 300 gamer.
True but he will be a second ruck for a year or two before he Is sent to the wolves. my question is, what happens when he has an injury? who rucks? Lipinski? wtf bevo
 

perro_loco

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This is exactly what people are saying.


That’s exactly what’s being discussed here. Some posters think that to get on top of the clearances we need a better ruckman.



Our team of the last 2 years debunks that myth. We’ve been one of the best performing stoppage teams in that time with one of the worst performing rucks.

Why do you and others ignore that?
Because it has cost us a lot of games. If we have as second ruck, we do not lose yesterday and many other games.
 

Libba39

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Most disappointing aspect of yesterday's game for me (apart from playing rubbish for 3 qtrs) was the efforts of some of the bottom six guys. When it was their "time to go" in the last quarter Ed Richards and Roarke Smith were caught spectating when guys like Dureya were crashing back into packs. Not good enough.
 

dogwatch

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You’re not wrong. I’m baffled as to why we didn’t go after Ryder. Was the exact player we needed.

...
So much this.

Bevo says there's no point trying to recruit another ruck because English will be peaking in about 2 years. They'll just want to leave because they want to be top banana themselves.

Well isn't an accomplished 31yo (as Ryder was in October 2019) the ideal target? He has done it all (AA, B&F, 250 games, etc) and knows he only has 1-2 seasons left where he can help a promising side into the top 4 by playing a specific role. Who knows he might even be able to jag that elusive premiership medallion in his last year or two of AFL.

Not only that ...

The club keeps making noises about wanting more of an indigenous presence at the club and especially on the playing list. Surely Ryder would have been ideal as an accomplished and respected mature player, one who could act as a mentor for JUH and any other indigenous draft/trade targets in 2021?

Now for all I know we might have asked the question about Ryder last year, or there may be other reasons why Ryder was never coming to us, but from here it just seems like another opportunity gone begging while we bemoan our bad luck in not having indigenous representation on our list.

My suspicion is that Bevo didn't want any more rucks or talls on the list because he'd made up his mind that English was ready. That may have been a good reason but we know now that English was NOT ready. If we're lucky he'll be ready in 2021 but even by Bevo's latest reckoning it's looking more like 2022 or 2023 before he'll be a ruckman to be reckoned with.
 
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dogwatch

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I'm just amazed at the negativity at English right now.

I'm sure if we don't want him, he'll have a long list of clubs that will be happy to have him, and probs end up a 300 gamer.
I can't recall anyone saying they don't want him. He has obvious talent.

The negativity is not so much about English. It's not his fault he isn't a 28yo Max Gawn. It's about us consciously conceding the hitouts before every game starts and doing very little about it all season, not even as an experiment in an early H&A game.

I think I read that we have conceded the hitouts for an all time AFL record of over 60 games. (Can someone confirm that stat?) At the present rate, by the time we eventually win the hitouts in a game it will have reached a number never to be equalled.
 

Charlie Bucket

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Because it has cost us a lot of games. If we have as second ruck, we do not lose yesterday and many other games.
Thats too simplistic. Hypothetically we could’ve played Sweet or Trenners if we’d known English was going to give us such a poor ruck performance, but you don’t anticipate for such a thing. Do we play Dickson over Smith or Hunter because he probably kicks those goals?
Lets also not forget that we ran Bruce in their multiple times and he was just as if not poorer.

If English plays that game as he has for nearly all of his other games this year, we probably win. If Hunter, Smith or Bont don’t miss fairly easy shots on goal we probably win. If our defence get half of their regular aerial game going, We see some better performances from our regulars and don’t play dumb footy as a whole, we probably win.
There’s so many things that we did wrong in that game and not many things we did right and still only lost by 3 pts.
I understand what you are saying and I’m not against bringing in another ruckman for next season (if Sweet looks like needing another year), particularly after some recent shithouse efforts by English But when going through the post game stuff, the club will have plenty of things above not playing a second ruck as
reasons that game was lost.
 
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