Autopsy Late fight back not enough as dogs Bow out of finals

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Golden_6

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I don't think he knows with any certainty who the six new faces are (although the two you mention seem likely).

He's probably thinking more that there are six faces that won't be there.
People are reading way too much into those comments. From last years elimination final team there were 8 changes compared to this year. He was just making a throwaway comment that team makeups change all the time due to personnel changes, injuries, structure etc.
 

pebblesofsand

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Don't usually comment on other teams boards but I've got to say I'm intrigued by the discussion regarding English and how he is being used by WB's.

English strikes me as a slightly less developed Marshall. Will be a great player for you in a couple of years but jeez it seems like ATM he's being thrown under the bus by Bevo.

I was one of the few Saints supporters to heavily advocate bringing in Ryder and playing him in the ruck with Marshall forward simply because, despite how well Marshall performed around the ground last year - he is not a great centre bounce ruckman.

He was always going to be more value to the Saints this year (especially with a raw Max King having to play Full Forward) as the forward/second ruck option. But that only happened because we got Ryder.

Thankfully you chased Bruce but a Naughton/English/Ryder combo would have been a bloody handful with your midfield.
 

doggies ftw

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Another poor stat from tonight...

Scores From D50
STK: 5.2 (32)
WB: 1.2 (8)

This is something we usually are elite at.
Wait Bev taking literally our biggest strength all year and completely changing it playing too many slower, negating players in the same backline While taking some of our best ball moving players out, 2 weeks from finals.... had an effect on our major strength???

shock horror, didn’t see that one coming or harp on about it wherever I got a chance for the past two weeks.
 

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Dazb86

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Don't usually comment on other teams boards but I've got to say I'm intrigued by the discussion regarding English and how he is being used by WB's.

English strikes me as a slightly less developed Marshall. Will be a great player for you in a couple of years but jeez it seems like ATM he's being thrown under the bus by Bevo.

I was one of the few Saints supporters to heavily advocate bringing in Ryder and playing him in the ruck with Marshall forward simply because, despite how well Marshall performed around the ground last year - he is not a great centre bounce ruckman.

He was always going to be more value to the Saints this year (especially with a raw Max King having to play Full Forward) as the forward/second ruck option. But that only happened because we got Ryder.

Thankfully you chased Bruce but a Naughton/English/Ryder combo would have been a bloody handful with your midfield.
Our coach doesn't rate a 2 ruck set up.
 

doggies ftw

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So we play a man down up forward every week so we have an extra up the ground because we can't back English in.

Yet in the same breath Bevo says the Ruck situation won't be changing anytime soon.

Consider me very confused.
This. We have on paper one of if not the best midfield brigades, heavily weighted towards inside ball winning types. And we can’t back them in to get the upper hand in the contests man for man. it’s crazy.

Either A, that midfield brigade is really not as good as we think it is, B, not having a decent ruck is absolutely killing us, or C, the midfield is not coached correctly or the game plan is not suitable etc.

or probably a bit of all 3. Either way something needs to change but our head coach seems adamant that this problem will fix itself even though we’re going on 4 years now we’re it hasn’t improved.
 

1961grandfinal

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I’ve been on this forum since 2002, I’ve seen know it all’s like you come and go. Accept people have different views, I think in tighter defensive football you can’t afford to lose those 1 on 1, you think it’s not an issue, different views that’s all.
LB what you fail to understand is that the game has gone beyond mere mortals like us. Our ancient ideas are irrelevant, younger people are more knowledgeable and make informed decisions on facts. Our only job is to keep buying memberships and wait for another Chinese 60 year plan to come to fruition.
I have been schooled in this by Charlie B and have to acknowledge his superior abilities and intellect although only because my faculties are fading with age, just like the way the dogs have shown no progression in the last 3 seasons.
 

BEaston

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LB what you fail to understand is that the game has gone beyond mere mortals like us. Our ancient ideas are irrelevant, younger people are more knowledgeable and make informed decisions on facts. Our only job is to keep buying memberships and wait for another Chinese 60 year plan to come to fruition.
I have been schooled in this by Charlie B and have to acknowledge his superior abilities and intellect although only because my faculties are fading with age, just like the way the dogs have shown no progression in the last 3 seasons.
How have we shown no progression in 3 seasons?
 

doggies ftw

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Why the **** is Bev complaining about the third man up rule. Legitimately the biggest cause for concern in the ruck work in the centre square and third man up ain’t doing anything to rectify it.

Jeez I’m still frustrated af.
Not to mention the fact it is now 4yeaes old, sounds desperate
 

Dogsman16

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Was the major factor Sweet didn’t debut because his forward work wasn’t up to scratch ?? But his ruck work is.

Surely there was a stage this year where Sweet could spend 70% of the game in the ruck and barely required up forward.
The port game in particular (where Bruce played tall forward by himself and English got destroyed).

How can Cal Porter get a game (when the depth in his role is stacked) but Sweet can’t when the cupboard is bare.
 

Mattdougie

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It’s funny how most on here laughed at the Saints for bringing in Ryder but NOW they say they wanted him all along.

The vast majority thought Ryder was cooked when Port dumped him
 

CarnTheScray

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It’s funny how most on here laughed at the Saints for bringing in Ryder but NOW they say they wanted him all along.

The vast majority thought Ryder was cooked when Port dumped him
In the pre-season I thought he was cooked but I could tell he had a lot still in him when the season started.

You also have to realise I'm not a recruiting manager. I don't have the time and resources allocated to investigate a players ability and future like list managers do, as it is their job to do so.
 

Mattdougie

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In the pre-season I thought he was cooked but I could tell he had a lot still in him when the season started.

You also have to realise I'm not a recruiting manager. I don't have the time and resources allocated to investigate a players ability and future like list managers do, as it is their job to do so.
Wasn’t referring to anyone in particular just several posts saying we should have chase hmm when literally no one said that last year.

Go on him for training it around I say.
 

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dogwatch

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Why the **** is Bev complaining about the third man up rule. Legitimately the biggest cause for concern in the ruck work in the centre square and third man up ain’t doing anything to rectify it.

Jeez I’m still frustrated af.
I’m frustrated too but maybe he’s just adopting the Clarko Principle. If you whinge about it loud enough you might get the AFL to change the rules.

That seems to be the AFL’s MO after all.
 

1961grandfinal

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How have we shown no progression in 3 seasons?
After the 5-2 start in 2017 we have done nothing. In 2018 we finished 13th, 8W 14L and 77% so we were 23% below average in scoring. Since then we were eliminated from the finals at the first step in 19 (12 W, 10 L and 107%) and 20 (10 W and 7L 107%). OK, so should be happy with our progression in improving the % and now making the 8 but I am not as we have a mid field for the ages and are wasting them with pathetic decision making on and off the field.

Crozier forward reminded me of Rohan Smith to CHB in the 98 prelim as both moves were made by coaches considered to be ground breakers. In fact, as the seasons pass Bevo reminds me more and more of life under Wallet. The M Daw spud award thread should be renamed the M Robran spud award as he did it to us in final.

This is too much for me, my doctors have recommended avoiding the words Bevo and Trump. Both are health risks and if thought of in the same 24 hour period lead to a reduced quality of life. I need to go and take my BP tablets.
 

King Harold

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Rewatching the game from TV this time.
Rourke Smiths aerial work doesn’t make for pretty viewing.

Also we have 3 KPD’s yet King finds a mismatch against Wood/Williams and Geary on Daniel.
the uncontested making inside our 50 was a disgrace, as bad as I’ve seen.
Again lack of “ natural forwards” may have contributed to the problem.
 

wayniac

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the uncontested making inside our 50 was a disgrace, as bad as I’ve seen.
Again lack of “ natural forwards” may have contributed to the problem.
Both ends were terrible. when the ball is in the air our guys need to be aware, they have time to move to a more strategic position and don't.

When Caleb Daniel was exposed 1 on 1 where were our other defenders? At that stage we were playing zone defence not man on man. Where is the second defender? The lack of contested marking at both ends was awful. The shift in game plan after we beat West Coast by going chaos ball was a big factor.
 

BEaston

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After the 5-2 start in 2017 we have done nothing. In 2018 we finished 13th, 8W 14L and 77% so we were 23% below average in scoring. Since then we were eliminated from the finals at the first step in 19 (12 W, 10 L and 107%) and 20 (10 W and 7L 107%). OK, so should be happy with our progression in improving the % and now making the 8 but I am not as we have a mid field for the ages and are wasting them with pathetic decision making on and off the field.

Crozier forward reminded me of Rohan Smith to CHB in the 98 prelim as both moves were made by coaches considered to be ground breakers. In fact, as the seasons pass Bevo reminds me more and more of life under Wallet. The M Daw spud award thread should be renamed the M Robran spud award as he did it to us in final.

This is too much for me, my doctors have recommended avoiding the words Bevo and Trump. Both are health risks and if thought of in the same 24 hour period lead to a reduced quality of life. I need to go and take my BP tablets.
Being happy with it or not is subjective, but the original statement was that we've shown no progression at all. Don't think that's true at all.

No arguments from me on Crozier forward. Silly decision driven by Bev's love of Gardiner meaning too many defenders were in the side.
 

King Harold

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Both ends were terrible. when the ball is in the air our guys need to be aware, they have time to move to a more strategic position and don't.

When Caleb Daniel was exposed 1 on 1 where were our other defenders? At that stage we were playing zone defence not man on man. Where is the second defender? The lack of contested marking at both ends was awful. The shift in game plan after we beat West Coast by going chaos ball was a big factor.
As for our defenders, all like to play off their man to effect a spoil.
If I use May as an example , he will make early body contact.Yes he has the physique to do that, ours probably don’t.
We made it a lot easier for a “ skinny” King to catch a few.

Would be interesting to look back at how many times Gardiner tried to spoil one of our guys trying to mark it since he has become a fixture.
He is programed to spoil no matter what !
 

The Slitherin' Snake

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Rewatching the game from TV this time.
Rourke Smiths aerial work doesn’t make for pretty viewing.

Also we have 3 KPD’s yet King finds a mismatch against Wood/Williams and Geary on Daniel.
At one point in the last, it felt like he made the wrong decision on whether to fly or crumb on 5 straight contests. And i could have sworn he started manning the mark before Coffield had actually taken the mark on one occasion.
 

Dogsman16

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With all due respect to Ryan Gardiner he shouldn't be out there on the weekend. This is not a potshot at him, in fact he's improved significantly.

But for us to abandon the 2 tall defensive structure that worked supremely well earlier this year that even Bev acknowledged is sheer stupidity.

We should be playing exactly as Port Adelaide do, a small but mobile and team orientated defence. Our medium defenders is a massive strength, so to take one out of the setup, particularly one who is in my opinion one of the most underrated defenders in the competition, play him out of position and then replace him with a player who isn't an upgrade in any real facet of the game except height, is just awful coaching.

We also have a KPF in Naughton who can be used in defence if we are getting beaten or he's struggling. I'm certainly opposed to him playing as a permanent defender but am no means saying he shouldn't be swung back when required. Bruce struggles more often than not so he also could be swung back if needed.

You replace Gardiner with a competent ruck option and in no facet do we lose that game. If we win then Gardiner obviously comes in to replace the injured Cordy and to maintain the same structure.

What makes it worse is that despite the added height in our backline, King and Geary in particular still managed to find massive mismatches. Whats the point in playing 3 talls if we still can't find the right combinations. At least with a smaller but smarter Crozier back there, he can peel off his man to provided added protection. Outnumbering opponents at the drop off the ball has been a huge reason for our success so to take that strength away from us. Well thats on Bev.

I feel sorry for Bev cause the ruck cupboard is bare. But for him to dismantle the defensive structure he built needs to be rectified.

Plus players like Richards, R.Smith and Lipinski currently not being up to finals standard. At all.
 
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Glaeken Oracle

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I feel sorry for Bev cause the ruck cupboard is bare. But for him to dismantle the defensive structure he built needs to be rectified.

Plus players like Richards, R.Smith and Lipinski currently not being up to finals standard. At all.
I don't. While recruiting is a list management function, surely the coach has input into, for example, how many rucks are on a list - i.e. best 22, backup, developing.

Trengove and Sweet have bene recruited under Beveridge. Roughead was marginalised and traded out under Beveridge.
The buck for the ruck situation, both with who takes the field, and who is available beyond that, stops with the coach.

And as others have said, the Crozier placement was bamboozling, to say the least. He has turned onto an elite defender, so, um, let's play him forward in a sudden-death final. Ridiculous.
 

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