Autopsy Late fight back not enough as dogs Bow out of finals

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Dogsman16

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Oct 19, 2012
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I don't. While recruiting is a list management function, surely the coach has input into, for example, how many rucks are on a list - i.e. best 22, backup, developing.

Trengove and Sweet have bene recruited under Beveridge. Roughead was marginalised and traded out under Beveridge.
The buck for the ruck situation, both with who takes the field, and who is available beyond that, stops with the coach.

And as others have said, the Crozier placement was bamboozling, to say the least. He has turned onto an elite defender, so, um, let's play him forward in a sudden-death final. Ridiculous.
Yep the crozier decision is farcical.

List management need to be held to account over the lack of ruck depth. But lets instead have 25 slow inside mids. Beyond ridiculous.
 

doggies ftw

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Yep the crozier decision is farcical.

List management need to be held to account over the lack of ruck depth. But lets instead have 25 slow inside mids. Beyond ridiculous.
I think it comes down to Bev. Why would list management look for ruck options when I’m sure bev has made it very clear he doesn’t want one. Anybody can see it’s a weakness on the list I mean if our list management team couldn’t see that it’d be a concern. It comes down to having a head coach who doesn’t rate ruckman
 

doggies ftw

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As for our defenders, all like to play off their man to effect a spoil.
If I use May as an example , he will make early body contact.Yes he has the physique to do that, ours probably don’t.
We made it a lot easier for a “ skinny” King to catch a few.

Would be interesting to look back at how many times Gardiner tried to spoil one of our guys trying to mark it since he has become a fixture.
He is programed to spoil no matter what !
I’d set the line at about 3 per game. For someone whose only trick is spoiling, he’s really not very good at it. His game sense is literally non existent, I doubt there’s a player in the AFL who just looks as out of his depth at the level as Gardy does
 

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King Harold

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I’d set the line at about 3 per game. For someone whose only trick is spoiling, he’s really not very good at it. His game sense is literally non existent, I doubt there’s a player in the AFL who just looks as out of his depth at the level as Gardy does
That maybe even an underestimate.
He makes me very nervous when it goes near him.
I guess we will have to get used to it , because I can see him being played regularly next year.
 

Lex22

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Jun 8, 2011
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Don't usually comment on other teams boards but I've got to say I'm intrigued by the discussion regarding English and how he is being used by WB's.

English strikes me as a slightly less developed Marshall. Will be a great player for you in a couple of years but jeez it seems like ATM he's being thrown under the bus by Bevo.

I was one of the few Saints supporters to heavily advocate bringing in Ryder and playing him in the ruck with Marshall forward simply because, despite how well Marshall performed around the ground last year - he is not a great centre bounce ruckman.

He was always going to be more value to the Saints this year (especially with a raw Max King having to play Full Forward) as the forward/second ruck option. But that only happened because we got Ryder.

Thankfully you chased Bruce but a Naughton/English/Ryder combo would have been a bloody handful with your midfield.
I’d do plenty to have Marshall in the current Bulldogs line-up. What was he rookie drafted as a 21-22yo? What a steal.

I think English will get there, but I do have big doubts on whether he’ll make it as a sole ruckman. Whilst ruckman take time, he’s not a real natural in terms of ruck taps and positioning at stoppages. That’s a big concern for a lad who’s been in the system long enough to show something in that regard.

He desperately needs support.
 

godoggies15

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Nov 11, 2014
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A fair assessment of our list. Yes our strength is our midfield. Yes our defence is short of a quality key defender - one that can take intercept marks rather than just spoil. Yes our forward line is at best average - so frustrating to watch our forward line entries being compelled and the ball coming straight back out. This really is confusing as this particular aspect of our game has been a weakness since Bevo took over.

English certainly needs some support. His lack of being able to display some physicality in the ruck contest is bordering on embarrassing. Right now it seems his best position is forward/2nd ruck. Why Bevo appears to lack any respect towards the role of ruckman is curious.

Not sure if Naughton returning to the backline is a sensible option though this would certainly be an answer to add strength to that area. But he is exciting as a forward. What i would like to have seen during the period Naughton was injured was to have Lewis Young have a crack as a forward. He has been tried there and proven to take contested marks and a multiple goal kicker. Why not give him a few games to see what he can do.

Another positional change is Richards to the backline which seems to be his best position. He does feel more comfortable being behind the ball and using his pace to create the loose man could be a weapon. His delivery into the forward line is terrible. Then use Daniels as a forward where his creativeness could set up goals and then we don't have the problem of him being one out in defence.

Just some thoughts from a frustrated one-eyed Bulldog supporter who has witnessed way too many losing finals games. My first was the 1976 elimination final against Geelong. Is it possible for the Doggies to have a period of time that when we attend games we can confidentiality expect to win rather than hope to win.
 

perro_loco

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Wait Bev taking literally our biggest strength all year and completely changing it playing too many slower, negating players in the same backline While taking some of our best ball moving players out, 2 weeks from finals.... had an effect on our major strength???

shock horror, didn’t see that one coming or harp on about it wherever I got a chance for the past two weeks.
The Crozier in the forward line experiment was another. I cannot understand Bevo's experiment. From the little I know about AFL, to me Crozier together with Keath make the backline extremely solid. Crozier, IMO settled the backline and probably gave our mids huge confidence. Too late to cry over spilt milk I guess, but I think the coach was also outcoached as others have already highlighted.
 
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Lex22

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A fair assessment of our list. Yes our strength is our midfield. Yes our defence is short of a quality key defender - one that can take intercept marks rather than just spoil. Yes our forward line is at best average - so frustrating to watch our forward line entries being compelled and the ball coming straight back out. This really is confusing as this particular aspect of our game has been a weakness since Bevo took over.

English certainly needs some support. His lack of being able to display some physicality in the ruck contest is bordering on embarrassing. Right now it seems his best position is forward/2nd ruck. Why Bevo appears to lack any respect towards the role of ruckman is curious.

Not sure if Naughton returning to the backline is a sensible option though this would certainly be an answer to add strength to that area. But he is exciting as a forward. What i would like to have seen during the period Naughton was injured was to have Lewis Young have a crack as a forward. He has been tried there and proven to take contested marks and a multiple goal kicker. Why not give him a few games to see what he can do.

Another positional change is Richards to the backline which seems to be his best position. He does feel more comfortable being behind the ball and using his pace to create the loose man could be a weapon. His delivery into the forward line is terrible. Then use Daniels as a forward where his creativeness could set up goals and then we don't have the problem of him being one out in defence.

Just some thoughts from a frustrated one-eyed Bulldog supporter who has witnessed way too many losing finals games. My first was the 1976 elimination final against Geelong. Is it possible for the Doggies to have a period of time that when we attend games we can confidentiality expect to win rather than hope to win.
A mostly fair assessment (forward line shocking, team reliant on midfield) although our defence is mostly fine and I think the “Beveridge does well with what he’s got” line is played out way too much.

A rebuilding group has made finals last 2 years with a flag 4 years ago tells you the cattle is mostly pretty good with a young list but with a few glaring omissions in no ruck, an underperforming key forward (Bruce) and a lack of small options down there.

All of them spots need addressing and we’ll bank on both Bruce and Naughton improving in 2021.

I still believe we’ve lost as many games in 2020 at the selection table and with strange positional moves rather than necessarily due to a lack of talent.
 

Outback Footy

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We were cruising until Cordy went down, we missed shots we should have taken, we had 19 scoring shots to their 17, and in full length games we would have run over them at the end. In any other universe we win that game. Sigh.

Much better result than last year, I'll take it as a pass.

Hopefully JUH is everything we're being told and can slot straight in, if so Bruce to the backline/ruck or bring in another ruck to help Timmeeee. And thats all we need. Bring on full length games in '21
 

Optimistic Dog

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Watched the replay again so many chances just missed by a fumble, wrong decision, bad execution, bad set up in the forward line. English needs hardness maybe an off season of boxing. How would be feeling if Hunters kick had been at the end of the game rather than end of 3rd quarter. Cannot question his endeavour but he has a history missing easy shots at goal unfortunately.
 
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Boyd oh Boyd

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I think we missed a trick with Geary. If we had kept both JJ and Daniel in defence we could've exploited their lack of secondary defensive forwards. If Geary plays on JJ, Daniel runs free. If Geary plays on Daniel, JJ has a rare opportunity to play untagged. Instead we played Daniel as the only offensive defender in the first half, and JJ as the only offensive defender in the second, so they never had that dilema. Our drive from half back is vital to our game and we didn't make the best use out of the tag they put on us.
 

whyBulldogs

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The Saint list management won that game. Damn we didn't ask Rider and Howard last year, what a great inclusion to our team it would. Now we're in situation where those 2 positions are badly needed
 

Guido

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The Saint list management won that game. Damn we didn't ask Rider and Howard last year, what a great inclusion to our team it would. Now we're in situation where those 2 positions are badly needed
Pretty sure we were the first team linked with Howard, his name was mentioned a few times a good month before the season ended.

Think Saints came in with a higher offer. Have no idea what the comparative dollars were.

They were also all over Keath (he was filmed going for a medical there).
 

The Slitherin' Snake

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The Saint list management won that game. Damn we didn't ask Rider and Howard last year, what a great inclusion to our team it would. Now we're in situation where those 2 positions are badly needed
Hats off to Ryder. I thought he was done as a footballer and thought it was a strange decision for St Kilda to pick him up.

I believe we were into Howard
 

Guido

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Most disappointing aspect of yesterday's game for me (apart from playing rubbish for 3 qtrs) was the efforts of some of the bottom six guys. When it was their "time to go" in the last quarter Ed Richards and Roarke Smith were caught spectating when guys like Dureya were crashing back into packs. Not good enough.
First thing i noticed on the replay as well. Quite a few poor efforts to get to/compete in marking contests by Roarke, but there was a really bad one with 15 minutes left - probably the worst I've seen of any player this year - if someone is not all in to put their body on the line during the 4th quarter of a final, especially someone with a number of other limitations, they really shouldn't be out there. Can never afford that in a final again - would retain as a back up foot soldier during the season, but even then, I'd rather West get any of those games.

Bruce really irritated me - he needs to gets super, super fit - would give him a last chance as a more agile permanent forward, if it's more of the same, then maybe switch more towards a 50/50 ruck/forward (he should do no worse than Leigh Brown did in Collingwood's premiership), alternatively he's tried as a permanent back. Otherwise if the performance is at the same level, he fills Trengroves role for the next three years as mature backup in case of emergency - which I don't think he'll handle as maturely & professionally as Trengrove has.

I was a massive fan of his grunt work, ability to compete in the air and the energy he brought early in the year, but as the season has progressed, the amount of times he gets in the way of teammates up forward cancels out most of the good he contributes.
 
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badkicking

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First thing i noticed on the replay as well. Quite a few poor efforts to get to/compete in marking contests by Roarke, but there was a really bad one with 15 minutes left - probably the worst I've seen of any player this year - if someone is not all in to put their body on the line during the 4th quarter of a final, especially someone with a number of other limitations, they really shouldn't be out there. Can never afford that in a final again - would retain as a back up foot soldier during the season, but even then, I'd rather West get any of those games.

Bruce really irritated me - he needs to gets super, super fit - would give him a last chance as a more agile permanent forward, if it's more of the same, then maybe switch more towards a 50/50 ruck/forward (he should do no worse than Leigh Brown did in Collingwood's premiership), alternatively he's tried as a permanent back. Otherwise if the performance is at the same level, he fills Trengroves role for the next three years as mature backup in case of emergency - which I don't think he'll handle as maturely & professionally as Trengrove has.

I was a massive fan of his grunt work, ability to compete in the air and the energy he brought early in the year, but as the season has progressed, the amount of times he gets in the way of teammates up forward cancels out most of the good he contributes.
Not sure how Roarke Smith has escaped much criticism for his last quarter effort, but there was also an instance in the 3rd quarter, when he did not contest, he allowed the opposition 6 marks in the second half.
 

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