Opinion Leaders and Leadership

[austinnn]

I need to keep barking into the night, venting about the lack of leadership at our club. I don't know what Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

30

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

does for his teammates and coach, but I see nothing close to the stuff that makes a leader. Nothing.

He had grit once when he was coming up and hungry. Ross has turned him into a facsimilie of a player and a ghost of a leader, and ultimately he doesn't have enough in his locker to rise up again and grab what was his. I have watched him attend football games as a player for 2 years now, making up the numbers. I watched that cringeworthy "comedy" Red Rooster date with that weird hairy bogan bloke, hoping to see a skerick of real steel, but sadly it's just a name. He and Sincs and Rowan and Hill (and Membrey and Billings and Seb Ross and all those blokes) are very nice.

How do you reckon those blokes welcome new players to the club? How do you reckon they set standards? How do you see them reacting when their teammates get attacked on field or off? What do you think they do when the chips are down but the game is there to be won?

When I think of leaders, my point of reference is the premier league and AFL, so I'll list a few that have what I would classify as the right stuff:

Roy Keane (btw I'm a Liverpool fan)
Zinedine Zidane
Eric Cantona
Patrick Viera
Kenny Dalglish

daylight


Virgil Van Dijk
Steven Gerrard
Jamie Carragher
Nathan Buckley
Michael Voss
Scott Pendlebury

10

Scott Pendlebury

Age

38

Ht

191cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.5

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

13.3

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.9

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

CL

3.6

4star

D

12.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

Nick Riewoldt
Patrick Dangerfield
Joel Selwood
Alex Pierce and Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

from the current crop

When you don't have a stable of stars or a league that tips the scales to keep you sweet, you need to be a club with integrity, which we are, but to make that enough to win you games, you need on field leaders who live and breathe for the team and would do anything to win and do anything to support their teammates, but also to make them better and get rid of the weak links to improve the team.

For me it's a non-negotiable and, maybe along with the redevelopment of our reserves/development process, the most pressing issue facing the club.

My captain: Wilkie

My leadership group: Stocker, Zac Jones, Byrnes, Phillipou, Higgins

Extra leaders if above not available: Windy, Wood

Obviously some of those names are very short term and other leaders among the youngsters will hopefully emerge, but who ever it is has got to understand their role; it can't be enough to want success or work hard for success, I want to see the fire I saw in the eyes of Zidane and Keane when they were playing.

 

[littlecreatures]

It’s a very timely conversation. We just haven’t got the leadership mix right whatsoever, and it just hasn’t really aligned with our list transition either.

I think the obvious choice for some years now would be to make Wilkie captain. I’d also mix up the wider group to:

Sinclair (VC), Marshall, Steele (final year/s to transition out of the group), Phillipou, Higgins.

Pou’s leadership is the one I’d really be looking to fast-track, permitting he gets his body right rest of this year and strings some strong form again.

Hopefully, in coming years we see Mitchito and Nas added to the mix.

 

[BrutThough]

There is a reason why fans dont pick the leadership group and captain.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Wouldn’t have a clue. From an outsider’s perspective, Wilkie seems like the obvious choice.

Steele’s leadership is underrated, but his form has dropped off significantly. I’d rather he focus on getting that right and step away from the captaincy for a bit.

Ronnie Byrnes and Wood are reportedly excellent leaders too.

We have other good young guys with leadership potential, but they need to focus on footy for now, thinking Pou, Windy, etc.

 

[The Punter]

I voted for six players.

Higgins - no one loves the club more than him
Stocker - need to have that physical leader
Phillipou - standards leader and the most driven
Wood - the best relationships with the younger players
Sinclair - another who doesn't pick and choose and also deserves his spot in the team
Wilkie - similar to Sinclair

 

[chris_h_11]

My guess would be that the leadership structure within the 4 walls of the club is quite different to the public "leadership group" setup.

If, and I'm just picking a random name here, Sharman is having a poor game because "Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

30

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

isnt a good enough leader" or "Wilkie would be a better captain" then the club is more cooked than I thought.

Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

30

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

tosses the coin, and talks to the group before the opening bounce. If that's the difference between someone giving 100% effort and not, or following the gameplan or not, or hitting a target or not, then we might as well wind things up.

Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

30

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

bowed out of the leadership group this season - I would doubt his influence around the group, or his ability to be a good example to the young blokes, or the respect of the players and coaches would have changed because he doesnt wear the badge anymore.

 

[KingDiamondHead]

The club hasn't nurtured a real leader since Roo retired, Wilkie is the closest thing.

 

[austinnn]

My guess would be that the leadership structure within the 4 walls of the club is quite different to the public "leadership group" setup.

If, and I'm just picking a random name here, Sharman is having a poor game because "Jack Steele isnt a good enough leader" or "Wilkie would be a better captain" then the club is more cooked than I thought.

Jack Steele tosses the coin, and talks to the group before the opening bounce. If that's the difference between someone giving 100% effort and not, or following the gameplan or not, or hitting a target or not, then we might as well wind things up.

Rowan Marshall bowed out of the leadership group this season - I would doubt his influence around the group, or his ability to be a good example to the young blokes, or the respect of the players and coaches would have changed because he doesnt wear the badge anymore.

Possibly true, and what I'm driving at are the group that set the standards within the club. I can't imagine Steele is not the leader for that, or that the group just chose him to toss the coin and do the pressers.

It's not about talking, some of the leaders I like that I listed are not big talkers, but they are not the kind of fellas you'd like to disappoint either.

EDIT: I didn't know that Marshall has bowed out of the Leadership group already. Wise choice, I doubted his inclusion from the first.

Sharman or whoever doesn't have a bad game because Steele is captain, but I go back to my OP:

How do you reckon those blokes welcome new players to the club? How do you reckon they set standards? How do you see them reacting when their teammates get attacked on field or off? What do you think they do when the chips are down but the game is there to be won?

Those players need to fear their captain like they fear their coach, also they need to want to impress him, they need to know that he'll do anything to stand by you and fight anyone for you if you're attacked from outside, they need to aspire to be them. A leader in every sense.

 

[austinnn]

It’s a very timely conversation. We just haven’t got the leadership mix right whatsoever, and it just hasn’t really aligned with our list transition either.

I think the obvious choice for some years now would be to make Wilkie captain. I’d also mix up the wider group to:

Sinclair (VC), Marshall, Steele (final year/s to transition out of the group), Phillipou, Higgins.

Pou’s leadership is the one I’d really be looking to fast-track, permitting he gets his body right rest of this year and strings some strong form again.

Hopefully, in coming years we see Mitchito and Nas added to the mix.

Nas would have to work on his speaking and body language first. Right now he's just a super talented kid with nothing much to say and little outward grit. I'd say he'd be better off just working on his game. Mitchito is much the same, I love the player but personality wise, he's pretty similar to the nice shy players we've had in recent years.

Phillipou would be the horse to back for sure, maybe Wilson too, he has the look that I saw in Lenny once.

 

[mighty_sainters]

It’s Wilkie for me.

 

[JG22]

I've been thinking Wilkie probably has to take it next year. I don't see any real candidate after him.

 

[bakes10]

Wilkie captain for a few years until Pou is ready to take the mantle.

Steele out.

Pou in, Stocker in, Wood in.

 

[bakes10]

I’d be keen to know how they are providing leadership opportunities to the young group who’ll drive us to our next flag( they should put a lot of effort into Garcia, Pou, Windy, NAS, Tauru, Travalgia and even bloody O Connell whose bloody tough as nails

 

[jwikked]

The club hasn't nurtured a real leader since Roo retired, Wilkie is the closest thing.

The club hasn't nurtured a real leader since Grant Thomas got sacked

 

[austinnn]

I’d be keen to know how they are providing leadership opportunities to the young group who’ll drive us to our next flag( they should put a lot of effort into Garcia, Pou, Windy, NAS, Tauru, Travalgia and even bloody O Connell whose bloody tough as nails

See, this is the thing; who have those young leaders got as role models? That's my worry, there's no one there that you'd look at and say "that's the way to do it", no one to follow. That's why I was initially into us bringing in players from winning cultures a few years back, but we didn't really do it properly. Bringing in Hill has been good for the indigenous group, but he's not really a leader so much as a big brother type. Zac Jones and Hannebury came from Sydney, but weren't really leaders there, ditto Higgins and Butler at Richmond. Howard and Ryder a bit more at Port, but it didn't really work out for Howard for whatever reason and Paddy wasn't really the fierce leader type.

I do think we need to get our leaders of tomorrow into a programme that doesn't just teach them how to lead, but how to lead a winning team. The uppermost names I mentioned in my OP of ultimate leaders are a bit out of our range, but I'd love to get Buckley or even Pendlebury to spend some time with our youngsters. Nick Maxwell was running a leadership programme a while back, he went alright as a leader so his input would be valuable. Nick Riewoldt is our best (and one of our only living) resources, I don't know how much we're using him for stuff like that at the moment. It would be great to offer some of the great leaders of the Premier League/Euro leagues a month in Australia with our next gen leaders; great publicity too. Give Roy Keane or Steven Gerrard whatever they want, bring their families down!

I don't know anything about it, but here's what I look for in a leader:

Someone who can...

• keep giving everything until they "die"
• walk their talk
• get buy-in and true sacrifice from their teammates
• respond effectively onfield when their teammates need them
• get teammates chins up and chests out when they are mentally defeated or nonchalant
• get teammates focused and ready when they are overconfident or celebratory
• train and prepare as if they are the best at the club
• make sure anyone who wants to be better than them earns it
• help more talented teammates shine brighter
• be a union rep for the other players to the boss and coaches
• be a lieutenant/XO to the coaches towards the other players
• communicate clearly and strongly
• look their teammates in the eye and demand the same
• know when their players need an arm round the shoulder or a kick up the arse
• get the unsuitable elements onboard or out of the club
• keep all the teammates tight with each other, ensure all differences are ironed out or at least make sure they all pulling in the same direction onfield

 

[austinnn]

The club hasn't nurtured a real leader since Grant Thomas got sacked

GT did that stuff incredibly well, I forgot about him, possibly an even better resource than Roo. Love to have his input about that. Someone ask him on X?

 

[Diehard Saint]

GT got ridiculed from pillar to post about his rotational captain idea.

Personally, I think he was way ahead of his time. My captain’s tenure would be 2 years, however, as it would take a little time to settle in, and I’d make the next player up the vice captain. That way you have a rolling captaincy position with a smooth transition.

GT created leaders all over the field. He thought outside the box.

 

[littlecreatures]

Nas would have to work on his speaking and body language first. Right now he's just a super talented kid with nothing much to say and little outward grit. I'd say he'd be better off just working on his game. Mitchito is much the same, I love the player but personality wise, he's pretty similar to the nice shy players we've had in recent years.

Phillipou would be the horse to back for sure, maybe Wilson too, he has the look that I saw in Lenny once.

From afar, yes. Watching some of the games live and training, and noting our defensive line’s been relatively green, he looks like he’s becoming one of the more vocal and instructional players down back.

From behind the goals on the weekend, it was himself and Wilkie who looked like the only ones really trying to get things going at each reset and defensive huddle.

That said, my point was more around these being players that we really need to invest in their leadership in the coming year/s to fast-track their entry into the mix.

 

[g_TRAIN]

The club hasn't nurtured a real leader since Grant Thomas got sacked

Geary was an excellent leader.

He's in charge of the leadership program at the Dogs now, too.

What we really need is a leader who's also a gun player.

I've no doubt we've got some solid leaders, but to truly shine, they need to be better footballers.

 

[The Punter]

The team of leaders during Lyon's first tenure was the Grant Thomas legacy. Thomas didn't much care for what others thought though. I think it would be hard now to insist on a captaincy rotation because instead of rotating the captaincy between a bunch of top 5 picks (Riewoldt, Ball, Koschitzke), it would be rotated among who we have who aren't top 5 picks.

 

[Sully111]

There is a reason why fans dont pick the leadership group and captain.

Do you think Steele should be captain?

I certainly don't. Was a terrible call making him captain again.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Do you think Steele should be captain?

I certainly don't. Was a terrible call making him captain again.

Yeah but no offence, what would you or I know?

We don't know shit and our opinion is worth nothing more than a grain of salt.

Steele was good as captain (on-field) early days.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

How about maybe trying something completely different and naming the leadership group weekly with the team selection.
Yes, captain vc and maybe two others.
They stay in the positions until the next game.
It would be a massive honour to not only be named in the side but to be captain for the week as well.
This way we don’t get stuck having to select non performing leadership players or them having to suffer the extra embarrassment when dropped.

 

[Sully111]

Yeah but no offence, what would you or I know?

We don't know shit and our opinion is worth nothing more than a grain of salt.

Steele was good as captain (on-field) early days.

This will probably be unpopular but I never saw Steele as a great candidate for captain. He was just our best player for a while.

 

[g_TRAIN]

This will probably be unpopular but I never saw Steele as a great candidate for captain. He was just our best player for a while.

I tend to agree, but I'm also mindful that, as an outsider, my perspective is limited, perception often differs greatly from reality.

Personally, I’ve had doubts about Steele’s off-field leadership presence, given he can come across as a bit robotic. On-field, however, he had certainly proven himself at the time.

He was pivotal in securing our finals spot in 2020 and delivered some huge performances in key moments. Playing through the pain of a broken collarbone against Geelong in 2022 was genuinely admirable, as was his outstanding finals performance against GWS in 2023