Prediction Leadership group 2017

[doodles98]

He did, but Varcoe and Crisp are mid tier best 22 players without the added responsibilities of being the Collingwood captain. It makes Maxwell's achievements all the more amazing because it came across that he invested more time into helping others grow than his own game.

I don't know if Varcoe and Crisp have it in them to do that and with the likes of Adams, Treloar and Moore waiting in the wings I'm not personally prepared to find out so would rather them just in the leadership group. It would at the very least prevent some of the pharsical sruff of 2016.

* stuff

 

[Scodog10]

*farcical

Edited

Thank you apex self improvement is important to me!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

On your Pendlebury judgment I will assume you didn't rate Michael Tuck as a capatain?
And scott is far noisier.

maybe when I watch Scott closely I see him directing traffic during games, definitely leads on the track.
Seems the perfect citizen.

Imagine what we would have done to Rowdy Brown as captain. Quiet, tough etc. LOL we'd have him pounced on for being too quiet

I wasn't QUITE old enough to really be able to judge the Captain quality of Michael Tuck.

Gavin Brown? I'm not sure he was that great as a captain. But I'm starting to think that maybe my idea of a captain is different to others?

Moore isn't ready and he know's it. Don't expect him in the leadership group until 2018 at the earliest.

I definitely agree re Pendles. There are 4 catergories a captain needs to tick off, IMO:

- Guaranteed, best 22
- Set the standard on field
- Set the standard off field
- Handle the associated media and sponsor white noise

Pendles comprehensively ticks all boxes bar setting the standard on field. In that area he can't compete with the likes of Hodge, Walker, Jones, Selwood, Ziebell, Kennedy, Reiwoldt and B Murphy, IMO. He's good enough no doubt I just see him more on the level below with Cotchin, Murphy, Mundy and Watson/ Heppell, but Treloar, Moore and Adams bring it at a different level.

Unfortunately those 3 aren't quite up to it in other areas and whilst Crisp and Varcoe are fantastic team men they aren't quite good enough to be captain material. Crisp's standing within the group in particular is high!

I think this year (injury permitting) will be the year Moore establishes himself and will display why we should make him captain.

Maybe wait until Moore becomes a consistent high level performer before thinking about thrusting the captaincy on his shoulders too, yeah?

As above. I think this will be the year. I'm just jumping in early because Moore comes across as someone who WANTS that responsibility put on him in order to inspire him to get to that level as quickly as possible.

Again, it's just my impression of him. To me a captain is someone who will drag your team across the line kicking and screaming when you need it most. He'll try and turn a game on his own if need be. I see Moore doing that. He was ready to do it against West Coast last year. Pendles doesn't really do that for mine in the way players like Hodge and Selwood do.

 

[Apex36]

Edited

Thank you apex self improvement is important to me!

Same. I actually like people pointing out my bad spelling if it's not a simple typo. Then I know I won't do it again next time!

 

[Quicky]

Yeah. They know yet he there he was a leader in 2016. Disappointing, but the club can't appease everyone all the time and I imagine he's popular at the sponsor and corporate functions...

You sound a bit like Pert there Sco.

 

[TradeDraft]

Would Aish be a Chance of down the Track of being in it as he was the SA Captain in his Draft Year?

 

[Old Spice]

Adams brings the ruckus on field and you can tell how much when he speaks that he wants the prize, but he almost wants it too much and trips over himself a bit when speaking. It's like every speaking opportunity is an interview for the job. He needs to relax a little and draw breath, but that's what makes him so good on field. Could get there.

Moore could enter the leadership group and go from there. He might want it and admittedly the playing group is young, but he needs at least another year on the board. People generally don't like to be told what to do by a shiney arse, although there are some exceptions like Selwood.

 

[Rorzza]

Scott
Taylor
Brodie
Darcy
Alex
To name a few...

IMO behind Pendlebury we should usher in the next way of leaders.

 

[Scodog10]

You sound a bit like Pert there Sco.

Ouch!

 

[PicaBoo]

Adams brings the ruckus on field and you can tell how much when he speaks that he wants the prize, but he almost wants it too much and trips over himself a bit when speaking. It's like every speaking opportunity is an interview for the job. He needs to relax a little and draw breath, but that's what makes him so good on field. Could get there.

Moore could enter the leadership group and go from there. He might want it and admittedly the playing group is young, but he needs at least another year on the board. People generally don't like to be told what to do by a shiney arse, although there are some exceptions like Selwood.

Moore needs a year to show he belongs in the leadership group and another year or so to become captain.
But you can see him being primed for the prize by Bucks. It is a matter of when.
Adams should take over next years onward until Moore can stake his claim.
Pendles Jr will be demanding more time, good moment to let it go.

 

[sr36]

On your Pendlebury judgment I will assume you didn't rate Michael Tuck as a capatain?
And scott is far noisier.

maybe when I watch Scott closely I see him directing traffic during games, definitely leads on the track.
Seems the perfect citizen.

Imagine what we would have done to Rowdy Brown as captain. Quiet, tough etc. LOL we'd have him pounced on for being too quiet

From a purely outside perspective, with Bucks being such a seriously driven and focussed guy, the ideal captain would be more upbeat, humourous and full of spark. I could imagine a leadership combination of Bucks and Pendles being a bit too serious and dour, and frankly we've played as though there isn't enough spark. Treloar's energy and enthusiasm comes across as the perfect compliment to Buckley's seriousness.

 

[Quicky]

I just read Swans book and can't say I like it that it's part of the leadership groups role to mete out punishments to players, for indiscretions. Surely that should remain the sole purview of the coaches and administration? Perhaps we should be less concerned about guys like Adams or Sidebottom letting off some steam away from the game; and let they're training, football and mateship do the talking.

 

[PicaBoo]

From a purely outside perspective, with Bucks being such a seriously driven and focussed guy, the ideal captain would be more upbeat, humourous and full of spark. I could imagine a leadership combination of Bucks and Pendles being a bit too serious and dour, and frankly we've played as though there isn't enough spark. Treloar's energy and enthusiasm comes across as the perfect compliment to Buckley's seriousness.

Leadership on field. Mongrel factor. Grundy has the ability to hurt and lead from the front. He ragdolled Munford once. Adams isn't afraid to get his knees dirty either.
I haven't seen Treloar getting real physical, just run and tackling hard. He can absorb some hits though, don't get me wrong on that.

 

[sr36]

Leadership on field. Mongrel factor. Grundy has the ability to hurt and lead from the front. He ragdolled Munford once. Adams isn't afraid to get his knees dirty either.
I haven't seen Treloar getting real physical, just run and tackling hard. He can absorb some hits though, don't get me wrong on that.

I'm talking more about off-field and injecting more positive energy and enthusiasm. Both Bucks and Pendles appear pretty humourless and extremely serious types. We need some leadership that makes footy fun.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Lachie Keeffe to slot back in?

 

[Anzacday]

Leadership on field. Mongrel factor. Grundy has the ability to hurt and lead from the front. He ragdolled Munford once. Adams isn't afraid to get his knees dirty either.
I haven't seen Treloar getting real physical, just run and tackling hard. He can absorb some hits though, don't get me wrong on that.

I saw what you did there...

 

[PicaBoo]

I'm talking more about off-field and injecting more positive energy and enthusiasm. Both Bucks and Pendles appear pretty humourless and extremely serious types. We need some leadership that makes footy fun.

I see a need for the larrikin kind of player in the team but not necessarily in the leadership group. Swannie comes to mind there.

 

[jackcass]

Moore needs a year to show he belongs in the leadership group and another year or so to become captain.
But you can see him being primed for the prize by Bucks. It is a matter of when.
Adams should take over next years onward until Moore can stake his claim.
Pendles Jr will be demanding more time, good moment to let it go.

Given we have a leadership team of around 5 players I wouldn't mind an up-n-comer like a Moore and/or perhaps a Scharenberg type being added to the group. Provides them with valuable experience and insight and we should take every opportunity to prepare for the longer term. Would still allow for a Captain, vice-captain, and d/vice-captain.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

From a purely outside perspective, with Bucks being such a seriously driven and focussed guy, the ideal captain would be more upbeat, humourous and full of spark. I could imagine a leadership combination of Bucks and Pendles being a bit too serious and dour, and frankly we've played as though there isn't enough spark. Treloar's energy and enthusiasm comes across as the perfect compliment to Buckley's seriousness.

Ok, sounds a plan.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Lachie Keeffe to slot back in?

He might sneeze

 

[Scodog10]

I just read Swans book and can't say I like it that it's part of the leadership groups role to mete out punishments to players, for indiscretions. Surely that should remain the sole purview of the coaches and administration? Perhaps we would be less concerned about guys like Adams or Sidebottom being letting off some steam away from the game; and let they're training, football and mateship do the talking.

This is it for me! It doesn't sit well that the leadership group can outline punishments and possibly be at the centre of indiscretions themselves.

That should be the domain of off-field staff, IMO. I haven't read the book, but from what I can gather from someone that has we lose the 07 Semi if the current structure were in place...

 

[Apex36]

I'm talking more about off-field and injecting more positive energy and enthusiasm. Both Bucks and Pendles appear pretty humourless and extremely serious types. We need some leadership that makes footy fun.

He managed to get Broomy to crack a smile today with his antics during goal kicking practice, so you're right about him in that respect.

 

[ant22]

From a player no longer at the club. Treloar is a ready made captain. Absolute pro incredibly supportive of teammates and very respected. Adams also a strong leader but off field not as professional as teloar

 

[Lefthanded]

Moore isn't ready and he know's it. Don't expect him in the leadership group until 2018 at the earliest.

I definitely agree re Pendles. There are 4 catergories a captain needs to tick off, IMO:

- Guaranteed, best 22
- Set the standard on field
- Set the standard off field
- Handle the associated media and sponsor white noise

Pendles comprehensively ticks all boxes bar setting the standard on field. In that area he can't compete with the likes of Hodge, Walker, Jones, Selwood, Ziebell, Kennedy, Reiwoldt and B Murphy, IMO. He's good enough no doubt I just see him more on the level below with Cotchin, Murphy, Mundy and Watson/ Heppell, but Treloar, Moore and Adams bring it at a different level.

Unfortunately those 3 aren't quite up to it in other areas and whilst Crisp and Varcoe are fantastic team men they aren't quite good enough to be captain material. Crisp's standing within the group in particular is high!

Strongly agree with the 4 categories you've mentioned. (Though hard for me to assess most players against anything other than on field.)

Would add that leadership group (LG) seems to be chosen with at least one forward & one back (Brown & Cloke 2015, Brown & Caff 2016) which has thrown up some perhaps odd inclusions (certainly against the best 22 criteria, which, whilst you mentioned for captain, I think also needs to apply for LG) and that players in their first year at the club don't get picked. (Fair enough in my opinion unless you have a standout candidate eg Judd from WCE to Carlton) LG also needs to be chosen with at least two or three who could actually captain in the event of injuries / suspension.

I'm happy with Pendles as captain, particularly with Adams (lacking as captain in 4th criteria) in the LG so that between them they have the 4 categories covered. Another in this mould in LG would perhaps be useful but I'm not sure of a standout candidate. Perhaps Grundy given some training reports of his improved condition, he certainly has the mongrel streak and best 22 covered.

If they persist with having a forward and back included in LG we would struggle a bit for candidates. Some possibilities:
Moore - I think another year focused on just his game would be of benefit but suspect has the maturity if called on
Howe - I've included just on being a senior player, guaranteed best 22. I don't know about his off field standards.
Varcoe - For me similar to Howe (senior & best 22), but with question mark if it was going to happen, why not last year? Also seems to be a bit of a utility for us so hard to select him as your back /fwd leader when he may be playing elsewhere.

I wouldn't mind Treloar in, Sidebottom out given your comments (this thread and elsewhere) about Sidey off field but given he's generally been the stand in captain when needed the club mustn't see it as much of an issue.

 

[Dynamics]

Worthy of spots:
Pendlebury
Treloar
Adams
Sidebottom
Grundy
Varcoe
Goldsack

Possibles:
Howe
Crisp
Wells

Pendles isn't a perfect captain. He's too reserved and doesn't have what you would consider a commanding presence on and off field. Minor criticism but worth noting.Terrific in every other respect however, and I wouldn't want to see him step down unless it was entirely his decision.

Adams makes an ideal VC for mine. Fantastic attitude to training, clearly wants to lead and is hard as a cat's head. But he's not a natural with the off field stuff. It's something he will probably improve over time and maturity helps a great deal with this sort of thing.

Treloar just seems like skipper material to me. Gun player, flawless attitude, super professional, great at all the off field stuff, speaks very well and has the relaxed, affable persona that many (certainly not all!) good leaders have... It inspires confidence. He seems to love what he does, thrives in a team environment, is super supportive of his mates and has the gift of the gab.

My only question is does he want the job?

Looking further down the track Moore has captain stamped on his forehead. Looking 5 years down the track I'd like to see names like Aish, Scharenberg, and De Goey appearing in the group as it means they've taken their games to the level we need them to.

And if I'm being optimistic I'd love to see Josh Smith in the group one day. If only because of my undying love for him.