Least deserving Norm Smith medal winner?

[RUNVS]

Also in truth if a grand final is a blowout I genuinely don't care who won the Norm Smith because the award almost does not matter in those circumstances. True Norm Smith medalists are the ones who lift their team in the very very close Grand Finals, the sort of players who if they were not their then their team would lose.

Not to say that the best player in a team that smashes their opponent does not matter, but it is not the kind of game that proves how good a player is, only the tight important games do that.

 

[Andyy]

Will.

Charlie Cameron had, from memory, two touches to half time. You can't win a Norm on that.

I mean, which GF, 24 or 25?

Cameron kicked about 3 goals in 8-9min of play between late Q2 and early Q3, which I thought really turned the momentum towards the Lions.

Just my 2c, watching on TV as a neutral.

 

[Andyy]

Also in truth if a grand final is a blowout I genuinely don't care who won the Norm Smith because the award almost does not matter in those circumstances. True Norm Smith medalists are the ones who lift their team in the very very close Grand Finals, the sort of players who if they were not their then their team would lose.

Not to say that the best player in a team that smashes their opponent does not matter, but it is not the kind of game that proves how good a player is, only the tight important games do that.

This is why, in recent memory, Dusty's 2020 performance was huge IMO.

Close game, team losing, got some momentum, put them in front, sealed the game, then iced the cake.

There's a crazy stat out there somewhere that he took possession for something like 3-5 seconds for all 4 of his kicks for goal. Definitely two of them were lucky bounces/dribbles through but damn they must have been daggers in the hearts of Cats fans every time.

 

[iameviljez]

This is why, in recent memory, Dusty's 2020 performance was huge IMO.

Close game, team losing, got some momentum, put them in front, sealed the game, then iced the cake.

There's a crazy stat out there somewhere that he took possession for something like 3-5 seconds for all 4 of his kicks for goal. Definitely two of them were lucky bounces/dribbles through but damn they must have been daggers in the hearts of Cats fans every time.

Oh he was insane. No Dusty, no flag

 

[TheRealComptroller]

This is kind of crazy.

Since the GF has returned to the MCG not one NSM recipient has ever been an AA.

Initialism overload.

Although W Ashcroft will probably end up with >10 blazers.

For context - in the previous twenty years only three NSM dudes were never AA: Shuey, JJ, and Embley.

Also Shaun Hart

Shaun Hart

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24.2

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15.2

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9.0

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5.0

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2.6

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in 2001 never was.

Andrew McLeod

Andrew Mcleod

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49

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181cm

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82kg

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Def

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19.8

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13.1

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10.8

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6.8

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4.0

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1.0

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wasn’t yet an AA when he won his first in 1997 but was for the second one and Shannon Grant

Shannon Grant

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49

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180cm

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85kg

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Fwd

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18.3

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12.0

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1.2

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11.2

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0.8

4star

wouldn’t become an AA until 2005 after he was awarded his NSM in 1999.

Note: An earlier version of this post inaccurately stated that only two Norm Smith winners were never selected as All Australians between 2002 - 2021: Embley and Johannisen. Subsequent research has revealed Luke Shuey

13

Luke Shuey

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35

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184cm

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89kg

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23.7

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13.0

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10.7

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M

3.3

3star

T

4.9

5star

CL

5.6

5star

D

18.7

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

7.8

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

4.3

5star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

1.4

4star

(2018) was also never selected in the team of the year.

 

[Partridge]

At one point in the match the free kicks were at something like 20 to 4. Hannebery came out a few years ago and stated that the umpiring felt wrong that day, and players almost never do that.

He can say what he wants. It's easy enough to check. Everyone just needs to watch the game.

Tell me about all the outrageous frees the Dogs got, or the goals Sydney were denied. No one ever can.

This year's Grand final was the same. At one point it was 17-4 our way. Apart from a softish free to Neale though, none led to goals. It happens.

 

[pazza]

Colin Robertson.

Not sure how knocking out Tim Watson gets you best on ground but in 1983 that's what happened.

Looking at the stats - he was 3rd behind Plough and Kennedy...whilst that champion Leigh Matthews kicked 6 goals!

 

[emuboy]

There was a joke after the 2013 Grand Final that Fremantle's Haydn Ballantyne should have received the Norm Smith Medal for Hawthorn in that game, as well as being recognized as a Hawthorn premiership player.

 

[WilloTree]

Matera, Shuey, Kemp and Judd are legends of the game.

But, Eagles have 1 more...

..Andrew Embley

Andrew Embley

Age

44

Ht

189cm

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89kg

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Mid

Career

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18.1

4star

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11.6

4star

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6.5

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

2.2

4star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.4

3star

.

oh my word

 

[RonnieRaven]

There was a joke after the 2013 Grand Final that Fremantle's Haydn Ballantyne should have received the Norm Smith Medal for Hawthorn in that game, as well as being recognized as a Hawthorn premiership player.

Lakes 14 intercepts ,double the next bloke on the field and the most in the last 15 years at least in grand finals made him a clear winner on the day
He intercept marked our first 3 attacking plays of the last quarter.
Hawks won by less than 3 straight kicks
(15pts)

 

[ferrisb]

Maurice Rioli easily. Kicked 3 goals in a losing team but hardly influential in the contest at all, while half a dozen Carlton players were clearly better on the day and more influential to the result. Head scratching decision but was the first Rioli to be fawned over for an average game.

Many have said Bruce Doull was robbed of the medal that day.

Would have been the first two time winner.

And the only back-to-back winner until McLeod (and then Dusty, Ashcroft).

 

[kane249]

Matera, Shuey, Kemp and Judd are legends of the game.

But, Eagles have 1 more...

..Andrew Embley.

oh my word

You know Norm Smith is awarded for best on for a day right and not a career thing?

Embely not being as decorated as his peers didnt make him an unworthy recipient in 2006. Was immense for us all day.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I reckon it's Jason Johannisen. Statistically he won't look like the worst but there was more daylight between him and the best players on the ground that day than any other Norm Smith I can recall.

Who is the least deserving Norm Smith medal winner?

Picken should have got the Norm.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Wayne Harmes is one player who is adamant his own NSM is bullshit.

This was way before my time and IIRC I first heard it when he appeared on that KB/Bob Davis/Doug Hawkins Fox Footy Channel show from the early 2000s, Grumpy Old Men.

Wayne Harmes stated he should not have won the
Norm Smith Medal in 1979, believing he wasn't in the top 15 players that day and that the award was likely given for sentimental reasons. He felt other players like Peter Francis and Wayne Johnston had better performances, along with Collingwood's Billy Picken.

Credit: Google Gemini

 

[ioppolo]

Still a bit dirty about Judd winning the Norm Smith in 2005. I mean how often does the Norm Smith go to the losing side?

Would also be a hollow feeling for the recipient in that situation.

"Here's my reminder of that losing grand final, but at least I was BOG".

 

[iameviljez]

Matera, Shuey, Kemp and Judd are legends of the game.

But, Eagles have 1 more...

..Andrew Embley.

oh my word

Yeah, but he was definitely BOG in that one.

Also, Shuey is not a legend of the game

 

[iameviljez]

Would also be a hollow feeling for the recipient in that situation.

"Here's my reminder of that losing grand final, but at least I was BOG".

Honestly, I think it’s the kind of award that you might discount while playing, but post career it’s a very meaningful point of pride.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Yeah, but he was definitely BOG in that one.

Also, Shuey is not a legend of the game

Neither is Dean Kemp.

Only a 1x AA.

Should Michael Mansfield have been awarded the 1994 NSM ahead of him? That was a debate at the time. Even if Mansfield didn’t deserve it Kemp’s performance was probably one of the more lacklustre displays to be declared the GF BOG. I guess someone has to win it. He had 23 touches and 2 goals. Travis Varcoe in 2011 had 21 and 3 (the third one was legendary and his first was hella good) and he didn’t even get a single NSM vote.

How Kemp is a Hall of Famer is a little mysterious IMO.

Although Mark Bickley made the HoF without ever making the AA team. However as an inaugural 2x flag captain I can kind of see where they were coming from.

FWIW Garry Hocking IMO was a pretty formidable footballer (4x AA) but wasn’t “first ballot” into the HoF from the Class of 2001 but Darren Jarman, Paul Kelly and Dean Kemp all were. Jarman I can cop but Kemp and Kelly? WTF. I guess the “national game” philosophy was being deployed? I can live with that but I couldn’t possibly believe anyone genuinely thought Dean Kemp was a superior footballer to Buddha.

 

[kane249]

Would have been a pretty bold call to award it to Mansfield when his side got done by 80 points.

Was an even display from the Eagles that day, and Kemp was one of the best of them .

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Also in truth if a grand final is a blowout I genuinely don't care who won the Norm Smith because the award almost does not matter in those circumstances. True Norm Smith medalists are the ones who lift their team in the very very close Grand Finals, the sort of players who if they were not their then their team would lose.

Not to say that the best player in a team that smashes their opponent does not matter, but it is not the kind of game that proves how good a player is, only the tight important games do that.

I wonder if you think true Brownlow medallists and All Australians should have the same principle applied?

 

[Macca180]

JJ in 2016

Should of been Josh Kennedy or one of the umpires

 

[Do the Dew]

He can say what he wants. It's easy enough to check. Everyone just needs to watch the game.

Tell me about all the outrageous frees the Dogs got, or the goals Sydney were denied. No one ever can.

This year's Grand final was the same. At one point it was 17-4 our way. Apart from a softish free to Neale though, none led to goals. It happens.

Free kicks in the first half of the 2025 grand final kept Geelong in the game. You were beyond kissed on the dick and if the umpiring had been even remotely fair then it would've been game over.

 

[Warhorse]

Free kicks in the first half of the 2025 grand final kept Geelong in the game. You were beyond kissed on the dick and if the umpiring had been even remotely fair then it would've been game over.

It was a deliberate ploy by Brisbane to slow our run and it worked a treat. Notice how it never happened around goal. Clever coaching by Brisbane

 

[Warhorse]

This is why, in recent memory, Dusty's 2020 performance was huge IMO.

Close game, team losing, got some momentum, put them in front, sealed the game, then iced the cake.

There's a crazy stat out there somewhere that he took possession for something like 3-5 seconds for all 4 of his kicks for goal. Definitely two of them were lucky bounces/dribbles through but damn they must have been daggers in the hearts of Cats fans every time.

By far his best Grand Final game even if he was lucky

 

[iameviljez]

Should Michael Mansfield have been awarded the 1994 NSM ahead of him? That was a debate at the time. Even if Mansfield didn’t deserve it Kemp’s performance was probably one of the more lacklustre displays to be declared the GF BOG. I guess someone has to win it. He had 23 touches and 2 goals. Travis Varcoe in 2011 had 21 and 3 (the third one was legendary and his first was hella good) and he didn’t even get a single NSM vote.

Sure, but don't forget that 23 possessions in 1994 meant a fair bit more than 23 possessions in 2011. The 2011 GF had 660-odd touches in it, the 1994 edition ~540.

Trav Varcoe was very good, but I wouldn't have given him a NSM vote on the day. Selwood, Bartel, Daisy and Hawkins at the very least were all ahead of him.