Left Arm Chinaman?

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The world has just plummeted into moral decay because someone (a single person) finds the term 'chinaman' offensive .... although nobody really knows why. How can we possibly live in a world that calls a cricket delivery a 'chinaman'? How can life go on?

Maybe if I see thousands of Chinese people marching in demonstration over the issue, I'll consider it, but I'm not going to take any notice of one person trying to get others to notice him.

The initial terminology was not racist. Back in the 1930s, Test cricket was played by Australia, England and the West Indies. The player concerned was of Chinese descent and it was unusual to see a Chinese person playing cricket at any level, let alone Test matches.

He was also bowling a very unusual style not seen before in Test cricket. The term "Imagine being dismissed by a Chinaman" was quite probably used in the context of how unlikely it would have been to be facing a Chinese bowler at all. As the bowling style was unusual, and there was only one Chinese bowler bowling it at the time, the term just stuck. All very innocent, and people back then hadn't heard of political correctness. What bliss.

There's a style of swimming named the "Australian Crawl". It came about because of an unusual style of swimming stroke introduced by Australian swimmers. Nobody cares, nobody is offended by it, and I fail to see the difference.

Hardly anything to get you knickers in a knot over, really. I bowled that style myself and always happy for it to be called 'chinaman'. Never saw a problem, still don't. I will continue to use the term because I've used it for many years, cannot see anything derogatory in it's usage, and I will not be told what to do, say, and how to think by minorities seeking their 15 minutes of fame.

And here's news to you "holier than thou" do-gooders. Everyone is racist. I am, and you are. We all have pre-conceived ideas of what people from particular races are likely to do. You see, we are of differing cultures and see things differently. No two people, even if from the same race, are going to see things the same way 100% of the time.

There's nothing wrong with these feelings, where it becomes a problem is if we act upon irrational fears. I hardly see how labelling a particular style of bowling will be the fore-runner to World War III. My best friend just so happens to be a Vietnamese girl. We met at work and have developed a friendship over the years based on our senses of humour. We accept we don't think alike in many areas, have differing cultures, but we get on like a house on fire because we don't take each other too seriously. And that's what it's all about.

This is my final comment on the issue because I have a life and far greater issues to address than this.
 
The world has just plummeted into moral decay because someone (a single person) finds the term 'chinaman' offensive .... although nobody really knows why. How can we possibly live in a world that calls a cricket delivery a 'chinaman'? How can life go on?

Maybe if I see thousands of Chinese people marching in demonstration over the issue, I'll consider it, but I'm not going to take any notice of one person trying to get others to notice him.

The initial terminology was not racist. Back in the 1930s, Test cricket was played by Australia, England and the West Indies. The player concerned was of Chinese descent and it was unusual to see a Chinese person playing cricket at any level, let alone Test matches.

He was also bowling a very unusual style not seen before in Test cricket. The term "Imagine being dismissed by a Chinaman" was quite probably used in the context of how unlikely it would have been to be facing a Chinese bowler at all. As the bowling style was unusual, and there was only one Chinese bowler bowling it at the time, the term just stuck. All very innocent, and people back then hadn't heard of political correctness. What bliss.

There's a style of swimming named the "Australian Crawl". It came about because of an unusual style of swimming stroke introduced by Australian swimmers. Nobody cares, nobody is offended by it, and I fail to see the difference.

Hardly anything to get you knickers in a knot over, really. I bowled that style myself and always happy for it to be called 'chinaman'. Never saw a problem, still don't. I will continue to use the term because I've used it for many years, cannot see anything derogatory in it's usage, and I will not be told what to do, say, and how to think by minorities seeking their 15 minutes of fame.

And here's news to you "holier than thou" do-gooders. Everyone is racist. I am, and you are. We all have pre-conceived ideas of what people from particular races are likely to do. You see, we are of differing cultures and see things differently. No two people, even if from the same race, are going to see things the same way 100% of the time.

There's nothing wrong with these feelings, where it becomes a problem is if we act upon irrational fears. I hardly see how labelling a particular style of bowling will be the fore-runner to World War III. My best friend just so happens to be a Vietnamese girl. We met at work and have developed a friendship over the years based on our senses of humour. We accept we don't think alike in many areas, have differing cultures, but we get on like a house on fire because we don't take each other too seriously. And that's what it's all about.

This is my final comment on the issue because I have a life and far greater issues to address than this.

Contrary to what you might think, I don't think anyone is actually losing sleep over it. It's just a small change that might make a few people enjoy the great game just a little bit more. Can only be a good thing no? I think you're actually making a bigger deal of saying left arm wrist spinner than the people that find chinaman offensive.

I like that you think you're the arbiter of what should or shouldn't be considered racist to another race too. That's cute.
 

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Contrary to what you might think, I don't think anyone is actually losing sleep over it. It's just a small change that might make a few people enjoy the great game just a little bit more. Can only be a good thing no? I think you're actually making a bigger deal of saying left arm wrist spinner than the people that find chinaman offensive.

I like that you think you're the arbiter of what should or shouldn't be considered racist to another race too. That's cute.
U getting rid of the French Cut too? It's the best shot in cricket. My friend today ordered a "Black Russian" at the Nixon Hotel at Docklands. Racist, or just a drink?????
 
I have different friends of different races. That doesn't give me to right to say what is offensive or not because I'm friends with them nor does it give me the right to say these words because I'm friends with them. Look, it is really a big deal to change the name? No. Don't think people will really protest that it is ruining the world. If people find it offensive then there is a need to change if it is warranted and in this case it is warranted. Even if there aren't many speaking up on it, doesn't mean they don't find it offensive.

The fact that it was used then without issue doesn't mean it should be status quo especially if someone finds things offensive. I would rather a PC culture than the world of nationalism that gets people like Trump, Modi and several others elected including potentially Le Pen because people are too set in their ways to feel that maybe if something is offensive to someone with reasons to back off and try to understand and then don't use the terms that making said people upset.

The amount of racist slurs I get because of my heritage is ridiculous and if I comment on it I get s**t like I should suck it up or it is banter. At least several people who I told that I was offended have understood and I explained it to them. It was ingrained in them by older cultures and that doesn't make it okay because your grandfather or some dude in the 1920's said it was okay or used it. The worst is when someone of a different culture tries to say it's not racist because of their warped logic. Literally having to be explained by someone who is of a heritage which are the majority, why what they said isn't racist is the absolute worst thing and makes it even more offensive.

It is literally a term which has so much historical racist context that is in a sport which is supposed to be inclusive of cultures. Getting rid of it won't cause the game to imploded or isolate people.
 
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The worst is when someone of a different culture tries to say it's not racist because of their warped logic. Literally having to be explained by someone who is of a heritage which are the majority, why what they said isn't racist is the absolute worst thing and makes it even more offensive.
It's pretty gross. Yet it is such a typical response when things like this come up.
 
As an azn who played cricket it isn't offensive because I was right arm over medium paced. Sometimes rolled left arm orthodox.
I also have friends of different colours so I can't be racist.


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Next year I'm bowling Right Arm Australian.

Is that OK by all you PC apologists...
 
I passionately defend the traditions of the game that demonstrate it's many skills and subtleties - especially Test cricket

I love the game and love talking cricket with other people who love the game and appreciate all the same nuances as me - I tend to feel like I'm part of a special club and I shake my head smugly when a non-fan asks me 'how can you watch a game for 5 days?'

but the term 'Chinaman' isn't one of those wonderful cricketing traditions - it's just a sledge that some genteel arsehole from colonial Britain fired off while feeling physically inadequate in the changerooms one day

why would anyone feel connected to this term? I would hate the thought that someone wasn't able to enjoy the cricket as much as I do

piss it off...
 
Where I do have a problem is your insistence that the enjoyment of an arcane pastime by millions should be impacted for your emotional benefit.

the hilarious irony is that you're insisting that his enjoyment of the same pastime should continue to be impacted for your emotional benefit

This reminds me of the caller who rang in to ask Rex Hunt to stop referring to Tony Liberatore as 'Libba' because the word apparently means 'sperm' in Maltese, and it offended him.

that's a poor example and does nothing to advance the discussion

no reasonable person would think the caller had a valid complaint - who cares if a nickname sounds like a vaguely rude word in another language?

that's less about political correctness and more about right-wing religious ultra-conservative cray cray puritanism

There is no end to offence being taken by individuals. Majority must rule.

why do you assume that the majority of people care so much about using an anachronistic term from a colonial era that pisses a % of cricket fans off?

in my experience, the majority of people who enjoy cricket would not knowingly ruin the experience of other cricket fans, let alone take any enjoyment from it

I find it offensive for women to breast-feed in public and have been ridiculed over this more times than I can count. I know I'm in the minority and just have to put up with it.

dude, they're ridiculing you because there's nothing sexual about breastfeeding and they probably find you kind of disgusting

why the hell are you even looking?
 
why do you assume that the majority of people care so much about using an anachronistic term from a colonial era that pisses a % of cricket fans off?

It's a thread in the game's rich tapestry. Piss off and leave it alone.
dude, they're ridiculing you because there's nothing sexual about breastfeeding and they probably find you kind of disgusting

why the hell are you even looking?

That's just it, you're obligated to avert your eyes. You might be e.g. on a train and need to avoid looking straight ahead. It's awkward. It's also legal and I don't wish to develop this discussion, least of all with a provocative campaigner such as yourself.
 
I passionately defend the traditions of the game that demonstrate it's many skills and subtleties - especially Test cricket

I love the game and love talking cricket with other people who love the game and appreciate all the same nuances as me - I tend to feel like I'm part of a special club and I shake my head smugly when a non-fan asks me 'how can you watch a game for 5 days?'

but the term 'Chinaman' isn't one of those wonderful cricketing traditions - it's just a sledge that some genteel arsehole from colonial Britain fired off while feeling physically inadequate in the changerooms one day

why would anyone feel connected to this term? I would hate the thought that someone wasn't able to enjoy the cricket as much as I do

piss it off...
There's about 121 billion Chinese people who have never been offended by it. 1 person gets upset, and on come the bandwagon jumpers. I'm off for a swim, am I allowed to do the Australian Crawl........
 

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I was hoping it would be called chinaman for some interesting reason. I used to bowl left arm slow trash with the odd wrist flick so i was hoping, but alas it was just some old englishmen being vaguely racist. was disappointing.
 
Honestly I've always just described it Left arm Leg Spin or Left arm Wrist spin. Not because of any notion of offence but rather it's just a far better, more accurate noun for what the ball is.

Seems like an incredibly trivial matter really. People who've always called it Chinamen will probably still call it so at the ground or around their club and most likely those who are going to be at the cricket or playing it will still know what it is so I'm not sold on tradition being a good enough reason to debate this.
 
Contrary to what you might think, I don't think anyone is actually losing sleep over it. It's just a small change that might make a few people enjoy the great game just a little bit more. Can only be a good thing no? I think you're actually making a bigger deal of saying left arm wrist spinner than the people that find chinaman offensive.

I like that you think you're the arbiter of what should or shouldn't be considered racist to another race too. That's cute.
No ones offended though, show proof of who is actually offended if you can. Plus you used the word Cute. I'm offended, because I'm not Cute. Please don't ever use that word again, in a forum where people may not be cute.
 
Yeah no point replying to this guy. All he has are straw men that a 10 year old would think up. Any kind of thoughtful reply would be ignored and you'd just get the same crap back. Still hasn't figured out that everyone in the thread is basically ignoring him...
At least I have a view.....
 
L
The term 'Chinaman', while inappropriate to refer to a person in a modern context, is nowhere near equivalent. There's a decent theoretical argument for ditching it, but since "left arm unorthodox spin" I'm going to stick with it until a group bigger than some random nutter on the Internet suggests they have a problem with it.

Realistically, I've never met an Asian-Australian associated with cricket who's taken offence at it. Probably because the term in a cricket context divorced from its original use so long ago that it's ceased to have any racial connotations it once carried. I mean, nobody can even say for certain how the term was coined.
Wait, what? When did "Chinaman" become inappropriate for someone from China?
 
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