Left Arm Chinaman?

[Wolfs]

Wait, what? When did "Chinaman" become inappropriate for someone from China?

Since like the 1800's. It's the context on how the Americans when the Chinese came to America at the time of the Gold Rush on the West Coast and then it was used throughout.

 

[wing it]

Since like the 1800's. It's the context on how the Americans when the Chinese came to America at the time of the Gold Rush on the West Coast and then it was used throughout.

Huh?

Man from England = Englishman
Man from Ireland = Irishman
Man from China = Chinaman.

Sheesh!

 

[The Speaker]

Since like the 1800's. It's the context on how the Americans when the Chinese came to America at the time of the Gold Rush on the West Coast and then it was used throughout.

Is America in Australia?

 

[Wolfs]

Huh?

Man from England = Englishman
Man from Ireland = Irishman
Man from China = Chinaman.

Sheesh!

It's the context of usage rather than the word itself. It was a use of hate back in the day and continued. The former 3 that you posted weren't created as a derogatory term but the latter was. So when you have a word created from hate and racism then it carries a lot of weight going forward.

It is what the usage, context and history of the word. Look, I see it as this. If someone of that race thinks it is offensive, instead of saying they should get over it or that they are wrong, people should listen. What was okay then isn't okay now. I mean you wouldn't use the 'N' word to an African American but back in the 1930's it was seen as okay.

 

[Wolfs]

Is America in Australia?

He asked a question that relates to the history of the word. Surely you read what I quoted before.

 

[The Speaker]

He asked a question that relates to the history of the word. Surely you read what I quoted before.

You were claiming that an American context was relevant to the usage of the word in Australia.

 

[Wolfs]

You were claiming that an American context was relevant to the usage of the word in Australia.

The origins of the term.

It was also used in Australia when the Chinese migrated here as well and in Britain too all during the 1800's. For all 3 the political cartoons at that time showed captions with the word while a caricature of a Chinese migrate and worker were made to look 2nd class, like dehumanized. Then as we all know there was a lot of Anti-Chinese movements in Australia at the late 1800's and very early 1900's. This led to 'White Australia Policy' because of these cartoons and a lot of racism among several various reasons.

The problem with a lot of people including myself is that we try to paint "If this isn't okay to say then we can't say this" or as some users have posted "Might as well get rid of the French cut." You can't paint everything with a broad brush. It's also not ideal to look at the word for face value or literally without looking at the context. With racist, sexist and homophobic slurs, it is always historical context.

Anyway that's all I have to say on this topic. Basically, I'm a minority and I have faced several slurs and it is not nice. If one person finds it offensive then just listen to them. It helps a lot. I wish people would just listen then the world would be a better place and we wouldn't have people feeling isolated which can be quite disastrous.

 

[wing it]

I wikipedia'd the term. Apparently North American Chinese-American take offence to it. I also found out that the offensive nature in North America is a fairly modern phenomenon.
Which tells me that all this is wrapped up in the current culture of 'getting offended' that has gripped the Western world, and that we are importing a problem that isn't our own.

 

[The Speaker]

The origins of the term.

It was also used in Australia when the Chinese migrated here as well and in Britain too all during the 1800's. For all 3 the political cartoons at that time showed captions with the word while a caricature of a Chinese migrate and worker were made to look 2nd class, like dehumanized. Then as we all know there was a lot of Anti-Chinese movements in Australia at the late 1800's and very early 1900's. This led to 'White Australia Policy' because of these cartoons and a lot of racism among several various reasons.

The problem with a lot of people including myself is that we try to paint "If this isn't okay to say then we can't say this" or as some users have posted "Might as well get rid of the French cut." You can't paint everything with a broad brush. It's also not ideal to look at the word for face value or literally without looking at the context. With racist, sexist and homophobic slurs, it is always historical context.

Anyway that's all I have to say on this topic. Basically, I'm a minority and I have faced several slurs and it is not nice. If one person finds it offensive then just listen to them. It helps a lot. I wish people would just listen then the world would be a better place and we wouldn't have people feeling isolated which can be quite disastrous.

Does anyone in the cricketing world associate the term with dehumanisation other than those complaining that it is in some way dehumanising? Language is an evolving creature. No-one playing cricket uses the term because they think that people from East Asia are lesser people.

 

[The_Reaper]

Chinaman is not dehumanizing in anyway.

There was a lot of racism against Chinese people in Australia in the past. There was still a lot of racism in the recent past (my mother has a lot of stories about her student days in Melbourne in the 70s). There is still racism today.

But Chinaman is still not a racist term and is most definitely not an equivalent to the n word (we all know what the relevant equivalent is here and ends in ink). Its not in use anymore because it is archaic.

That said, given batsmen is now apparently problematic and is out of official use there is no reason for Chinaman to be used officially.

But if some on bigfooty or at their local club used it, it would be an incredibly dubious stretch to success racism.

 

[roscreasl98]

Huh?

Man from England = Englishman
Man from Ireland = Irishman
Man from China = Chinaman.

Sheesh!

Am I allowed to be Australian?

Not allowed to be called a person, because the son part of it denotes male, therefore its sexist.
Not allowed to be called human, because of the man bit in that word.
I'm not allowed to be called a white Australian because that's racist.

But I'm the son (sorry, not allowed) of immigrant parents, born and bred here.
I think I'll just call myself thing from now on, like the hand thing from the Addams Family.

But, will I be a right hand or a left hand? Don't want to be labelled as a leftist, or a right winged so and so......

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Am I allowed to be Australian?

Not allowed to be called a person, because the son part of it denotes male, therefore its sexist.
Not allowed to be called human, because of the man bit in that word.
I'm not allowed to be called a white Australian because that's racist.

But I'm the son (sorry, not allowed) of immigrant parents, born and bred here.
I think I'll just call myself thing from now on, like the hand thing from the Addams Family.

But, will I be a right hand or a left hand? Don't want to be labelled as a leftist, or a right winged so and so......

So you want to be called Hand Thing? That's cool each to their own, but if you change your user name it will be easier to remember.

 

[roscreasl98]

So you want to be called Hand Thing? That's cool each to their own, but if you change your user name it will be easier to remember.

Its probably not PC.......

 

[theGav56]

Most Chinese people don't give two shits about it.

Actually it isn't really about that. It is about using ethnicity in a derogatory and derisive manner and thinking it is okay, which of course it is not. Most Chinese people would not even be aware of cricket. Most Australians are, and to have terms like this accepted including in the mainstream is a poor reflection on our culture.

 

[wing it]

Actually it isn't really about that. It is about using ethnicity in a derogatory and derisive manner and thinking it is okay, which of course it is not. Most Chinese people would not even be aware of cricket. Most Australians are, and to have terms like this accepted including in the mainstream is a poor reflection on our culture.

It's not derogatory though.

 

[The_Reaper]

Actually it isn't really about that. It is about using ethnicity in a derogatory and derisive manner and thinking it is okay, which of course it is not. Most Chinese people would not even be aware of cricket. Most Australians are, and to have terms like this accepted including in the mainstream is a poor reflection on our culture.

Chinaman isn't derogatory.

 

[Gough]

Chinaman isn't derogatory.

It's my old man's 20th wedding anniversary next month, which is traditionally celebrated with China. I'm thinking of getting them a Little Red Book off eBay.

 

[The_Reaper]

It's my old man's 20th wedding anniversary next month, which is traditionally celebrated with China. I'm thinking of getting them a Little Red Book off eBay.

That would actually be a pretty interesting read from a historical POV.

 

[roscreasl98]

Actually it isn't really about that. It is about using ethnicity in a derogatory and derisive manner and thinking it is okay, which of course it is not. Most Chinese people would not even be aware of cricket. Most Australians are, and to have terms like this accepted including in the mainstream is a poor reflection on our culture.

You're from Bali.
You Can't call the illness tourists get over there "Bali Belly" anymore, cause it reflects badly on their culture.

You Can't move to England and live in Blackpool, or NSW and live in Blacktown.

You Can't drink Scotch Whiskey, non drinking Scots will be outraged.

Red wine, White wine, no way, that's offensive.

Yellow fever, don't catch that.....

White line fever.....

Get real mate.

 

[beatnik]

Am I allowed to be Australian?

Not allowed to be called a person, because the son part of it denotes male, therefore its sexist.
Not allowed to be called human, because of the man bit in that word.
I'm not allowed to be called a white Australian because that's racist.

But I'm the son (sorry, not allowed) of immigrant parents, born and bred here.
I think I'll just call myself thing from now on, like the hand thing from the Addams Family.

But, will I be a right hand or a left hand? Don't want to be labelled as a leftist, or a right winged so and so......

oh dear, life must be very hard for you...

I mean I know that some women get raped, bashed or not hired at all simply because they're chicks...and all them homos are getting vilified because they're queer...and all those Muslims getting spat on, harassed on the street because they have weird beards and funny clothes but geez, you're really doing it tough

if only all those people knew what you've been going through then they'd probably just shut up about vilification immediately, humbled into silence but your extreme suffering...

 

[beatnik]

You're from Bali.
You Can't call the illness tourists get over there "Bali Belly" anymore, cause it reflects badly on their culture.

You Can't move to England and live in Blackpool, or NSW and live in Blacktown.

You Can't drink Scotch Whiskey, non drinking Scots will be outraged.

Red wine, White wine, no way, that's offensive.

Yellow fever, don't catch that.....

White line fever.....

Get real mate.

stop making s**t up...when did any of this happen outside of Bolt/Jones-type talkback?

seriously, get some critical analsyis about you!

 

[beatnik]

Chinaman isn't derogatory.

the term 'anus' is a medical term for a part of the anatomy so it's technically not derogatory either but I suspect you'd be upset if you ever found out that it is your workmates' secret nickname for you...so context is everything

in this case, left-arm legspin is called Chinaman because an elitist British tosser suggested that a Chinese people are somehow incapable of playing cricket

sure, it's not the most appalling racial slur out there by any means but it is derogatory and therefore more likely to repel participants to the sport than to attract them

on that basis, it's an anachronism that does more harm (i.e. some) than good (i.e. none)

so that's the case for getting rid of it ...

...does anyone actually have a case for keeping it? or just more whingeing about how hard life is for white males in western democracies?

 

[roscreasl98]

the term 'anus' is a medical term for a part of the anatomy so it's technically not derogatory either but I suspect you'd be upset if you ever found out that it is your workmates' secret nickname for you...so context is everything

in this case, left-arm legspin is called Chinaman because an elitist British tosser suggested that a Chinese people are somehow incapable of playing cricket

sure, it's not the most appalling racial slur out there by any means but it is derogatory and therefore more likely to repel participants to the sport than to attract them

on that basis, it's an anachronism that does more harm (i.e. some) than good (i.e. none)

so that's the case for getting rid of it ...
...does anyone actually have a case for keeping it? or just more whingeing about how hard life is for white males in western democracies?

Great posts, albeit 1 month late.
How was rehab anyway????

 

[Gough]

Unless someone can give me a good reason for keeping this open, I'm closing it.