Movie Left-Wing Agenda in Cinema/TV

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bourbons

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No argument s**t movies being just s**t movies. By poorly written I was alluding to lazy writing which dictates said female characters having to remind us every 5 minutes that they are powerful and female. Its a lazy short cut method and saving the hassle to having to develop a character further than just their gender. Its not that hard surely. Sarah Connor came off as pretty badass in the 80's without having to tell us every so often that she was girl power personified.
Something Ripley or Wonder Woman never need to do.
Got any any specific examples in mind (of reminding us every 5 mins that they are powerful and female)?
 

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Bostonian

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Sure - what specific dialogue or scenes would you identify in that movie?
The completely tacky use of Just a Girl. My Mrs described that an eye roll moment. Lame as fu**.

Then there's gender swapping a well established and liked Marvel character for no specific reason other than to push further the "female empowered" line of the film.

The whole sequence of you can't do this because you're a girl. More lameness.
 

bourbons

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The completely tacky use of Just a Girl. My Mrs described that an eye roll moment. Lame as fu**.

Then there's gender swapping a well established and liked Marvel character for no specific reason other than to push further the "female empowered" line of the film.

The whole sequence of you can't do this because you're a girl. More lameness.
Oh yeah, I actually forgot about that Just A Girl fight sequence. Agree, was a bit on the nose.

Not sure about the rest. Never read the comic so was unaware of the gender swap but nothing about that role (Annette Bening's) particularly stood out to me as "girl power". Probably see it as an example of artificially flipping things in the name of redressing traditional imbalance as per my first post in this thread.
 

Bostonian

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Oh yeah, I actually forgot about that Just A Girl fight sequence. Agree, was a bit on the nose.

Not sure about the rest. Never read the comic so was unaware of the gender swap but nothing about that role (Annette Bening's) particularly stood out to me as "girl power". Probably see it as an example of artificially flipping things in the name of redressing traditional imbalance as per my first post in this thread.
That's a false narrative though.

If you do some research you'll see there's significantly more movies made to specifically target female audiences than are made with the sole purpose to target male audiences.

So women are represented a hell of a lot, especially in the movies aimed directly at them.

You think Dirty Dancing was aimed at a male audience?

If we looked at audience break downs say between Dirty Dancing and Die Hard I'm sure we'd find a higher % of women watching Die Hard than men watching Dirty Dancing.

Dirty Dancing had a direct target audience, Die Hard would have been made as a general film trying to get everyone in to see it.
 

JackOutback

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That's a false narrative though.

If you do some research you'll see there's significantly more movies made to specifically target female audiences than are made with the sole purpose to target male audiences.

So women are represented a hell of a lot, especially in the movies aimed directly at them.

You think Dirty Dancing was aimed at a male audience?

If we looked at audience break downs say between Dirty Dancing and Die Hard I'm sure we'd find a higher % of women watching Die Hard than men watching Dirty Dancing.

Dirty Dancing had a direct target audience, Die Hard would have been made as a general film trying to get everyone in to see it.
The sooner you let go of your bizarre takes on what constitutes "men's entertainment" and "women's entertainment", you might start to enjoy films more. The idea that Die Hard was targeted at both men and women, but Dirty Dancing is just a chick flick, to establish this idea that men are missing out is laughable.

As a side not, the main star of Dirty Dancing was a man and would have got paid more. That's something of an imbalance too.
 

Bostonian

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The sooner you let go of your bizarre takes on what constitutes "men's entertainment" and "women's entertainment", you might start to enjoy films more. The idea that Die Hard was targeted at both men and women, but Dirty Dancing is just a chick flick, to establish this idea that men are missing out is laughable.
Dirty Dancing is just a chick flick.

I'm not saying men are missing out, you just made that up. Well done to you on providing the laughs.

I simply pointed out there's far more direct marketing of films to a female audience than there is to a male audience.



As a side not, the main star of Dirty Dancing was a man and would have got paid more. That's something of an imbalance too.
Your hot take here shows you've got no idea what you're talking about.

The main star got paid more, well fu** me that's a shock, who'd have thunk it?

Gonna go out on a limb here and say they hired Swayze for the beefcake element as women were horny for him in that era. So no imbalance.

Why would Jennifer Grey get anything near Swayze in terms of money?
 

JackOutback

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Dirty Dancing is just a chick flick.

I'm not saying men are missing out, you just made that up. Well done to you on providing the laughs.

I simply pointed out there's far more direct marketing of films to a female audience than there is to a male audience.





Your hot take here shows you've got no idea what you're talking about.

The main star got paid more, well fu** me that's a shock, who'd have thunk it?

Gonna go out on a limb here and say they hired Swayze for the beefcake element as women were horny for him in that era. So no imbalance.

Why would Jennifer Grey get anything near Swayze in terms of money?
And Die Hard is a bloke's flick, the fact you can't see this is because you view your films as for everyone because you see yourself as everyone. Anything outside of that you seem to view as different. That doesn't mean there aren't women that like Die Hard or men that like Dirty Dancing.

Also, the point has sailed over your head. Dirty Dancing is a chick flick, about a chick and yet producers listed the man as the main star and paid him more. Surely a movie for women about women should credit the woman first and foremost? This is all part of the imbalance that is slowly being overhauled.
 

bourbons

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That's a false narrative though.

If you do some research you'll see there's significantly more movies made to specifically target female audiences than are made with the sole purpose to target male audiences.

So women are represented a hell of a lot, especially in the movies aimed directly at them.

You think Dirty Dancing was aimed at a male audience?

If we looked at audience break downs say between Dirty Dancing and Die Hard I'm sure we'd find a higher % of women watching Die Hard than men watching Dirty Dancing.

Dirty Dancing had a direct target audience, Die Hard would have been made as a general film trying to get everyone in to see it.
Re: the traditional imbalance, its absolutely not a false narrative. Its not about quantity - sure, women were marketed to with certain movies and were represented alot, but how were they represented? In your Dirty Dancing example, she wasn't a damsel in distress but still got 'rescued' to some degree from overbearing parents. Not exactly a 'strong independent woman' type.

Heaps of women are fine with that and enjoy those movies, nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean they like that style exclusively, or that different tastes don't exist - like I said previously, I think its more that studios just realised they were leaving cash on the table by not having over-the-top, powerful representations of women in the same way there traditionally have been for blokes, particularly once the superhero craze kicked off.
 

Bostonian

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Re: the traditional imbalance, its absolutely not a false narrative. Its not about quantity - sure, women were marketed to with certain movies and were represented alot, but how were they represented? In your Dirty Dancing example, she wasn't a damsel in distress but still got 'rescued' to some degree from overbearing parents. Not exactly a 'strong independent woman' type.
So women have to be portrayed as strong independent types for it to count?

Men are portrayed as a vast majority of all super evil characters, that a problem?

Heaps of women are fine with that and enjoy those movies, nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean they like that style exclusively, or that different tastes don't exist - like I said previously, I think its more that studios just realised they were leaving cash on the table by not having over-the-top, powerful representations of women in the same way there traditionally have been for blokes, particularly once the superhero craze kicked off.
Except the over the top representations when it comes to male characters aren't done so as to empower anyone or to make any kind of statement. It's their character that is the focus, not their gender.

Nobody ever went to a Captain America movie and was thinking "oh you go boy, look at you being all male and strong and independent".

That would be some super lame garbage. Just like anything that's pushing a "girl power" angle is super lame garbage.
 

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Ice-Wolf

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As long as Bond is an upperclass british alcoholic womanising orphan with a dry sense of humour I don't think it matters who plays the character. Charlize Theron in Atomic Blonde was pretty much playing a female Bond for most of the movie.
 

Alesana

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And Die Hard is a bloke's flick, the fact you can't see this is because you view your films as for everyone because you see yourself as everyone. Anything outside of that you seem to view as different. That doesn't mean there aren't women that like Die Hard or men that like Dirty Dancing.

Also, the point has sailed over your head. Dirty Dancing is a chick flick, about a chick and yet producers listed the man as the main star and paid him more. Surely a movie for women about women should credit the woman first and foremost? This is all part of the imbalance that is slowly being overhauled.
If Die Hard is a bloke's flick then so is Resident Evil. I think it's safe to say Milla Jovovich was the highest paid actor for Resident Evil, but according to you she shouldn't have been because it was a movie for men? Are you suggesting actors should be paid based on their gender? :drunk:
 

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Then there's gender swapping a well established and liked Marvel character for no specific reason other than to push further the "female empowered" line of the film.
Which one was that now? Because Captain Marvel has been a women in the comics for some time and the Jane Foster Thor story is from the comics as well.
 

Bostonian

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Which one was that now? Because Captain Marvel has been a women in the comics for some time and the Jane Foster Thor story is from the comics as well.
Annette Benning played Mar-Vell or Dr Walter Lawson. The original and best Captain Marvel(in comics).

But they gender flipped it.
 

bourbons

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So women have to be portrayed as strong independent types for it to count?

Men are portrayed as a vast majority of all super evil characters, that a problem?
Not at all. Nice to have some variety though - you seriously suggesting there have been an abundance of those character types traditionally in movies?

Not for me - they're probably on an equal percentage with good/hero male characters. Outside of comic book movies and the latest Star Wars triology I can't really think of too many other movies that are consistently pushing female heroes.

Except the over the top representations when it comes to male characters aren't done so as to empower anyone or to make any kind of statement. It's their character that is the focus, not their gender.

Nobody ever went to a Captain America movie and was thinking "oh you go boy, look at you being all male and strong and independent".

That would be some super lame garbage. Just like anything that's pushing a "girl power" angle is super lame garbage.
Well yeah - of course it isn't done with male characters for the pupose of empowerment. There isn't any need as blokes have generally, traditionally, been empowered for pretty much the entire history of cinema. We've been conditioned over a long period with huge range strong independent male characters. Its not like male and female representations have been on roughly equal footing previously.

You could argue that these type of representations of women are sometimes being shoe-horned in or clumsily executed, although I see far less examples of that than others would claim. I guess essentially studios are trying to fast-track it. No doubt for some working on the movie it would be an ideology thing, but I still reckon at the macro level its more about $$$.
 
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Bostonian

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Not at all. Nice to have some variety though - you seriously suggesting there have been an abundance of those character types traditionally in movies?


Not for me - they're probably on an equal percentage with good/hero male characters. Outside of comic book movies and the latest Star Wars triology I can't really think of too many other movies that are consistently pushing female heroes.
The problem is that these identity politics types only have a very narrow view of what they accept as being a strong woman. They don't count women who chose a more traditional lifestyle choice as strong women. In fact they sh*t on those women often for their choices. So any mothers or wives in movies don't get counted as strong characters. even if they are exactly that, strong characters.

Resident Evil, Underworld, Alien, Terminator, Kill Bill, Hanna, Fifth Element, La Femme Nakita off the top of my head however are movies that have been made without the 2019 lame arse girl power rubbish tied to them.

Then there's the crapload of movies that have women cast as strong characters simply a peg below the main character.

It's a false narrative being pushed.


Well yeah - of course it isn't done with male characters for the pupose of empowerment. There isn't any need as blokes have generally, traditionally, been empowered for pretty much the entire history of cinema. We've been conditioned over a long period with huge range strong independent male characters. Its not like male and female representations have been on roughly equal footing previously.
No need? I reckon the male suicide rates might contradict your view males don't need any empowerment in life.

For every "strong male" character there's 100 that are weak and dead.


You could argue that these type of representations of women are sometimes being shoe-horned in or clumsily executed, although I see far less examples of that than others would claim. I guess essentially studios are trying to fast-track it. No doubt for some working on the movie it would be an ideology thing, but I still reckon at the macro level its more about $$$.
If it was about the $$ they'd be playing it differently as in they'd not be wanting to drive away the goose that lays the golden egg for these kinds of movies, male customers. For all its girl power, it was still the power of the male $ that made CM as much money as it pulled in. 55/45 I think was the audience split.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Cillian Murphy has refused the role of James Bond because as a proud Irishman he does not want people to think he is English. Come on Idris see how many ******* Incels you can p**s off - even more than when you appeared as a non Aryan in Asgard.
Pierce Brosnan is Irish too, incidently. He's from Navan!! (Louth according to his wiki but I always heard it was Navan? Oh well)
 

bourbons

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The problem is that these identity politics types only have a very narrow view of what they accept as being a strong woman. They don't count women who chose a more traditional lifestyle choice as strong women. In fact they s**t on those women often for their choices. So any mothers or wives in movies don't get counted as strong characters. even if they are exactly that, strong characters.

Resident Evil, Underworld, Alien, Terminator, Kill Bill, Hanna, Fifth Element, La Femme Nakita off the top of my head however are movies that have been made without the 2019 lame arse girl power rubbish tied to them.

Then there's the crapload of movies that have women cast as strong characters simply a peg below the main character.

It's a false narrative being pushed.
Yep thats a fair point re: traditional lifestyle choice not typically portrayed as 'strong' on screen - dunno if there's much room for that angle in your average action/comic movie though, which seems to be genre most have an issue with.

And yeah there are examples of the good for sure, just as there are examples of the bad. More recently, I'd add Wonder Woman, Mad Max Fury Road, Edge of Tomorrow and Atomic Blonde (know it wasn't that well received but I liked it) to that list. For a variety of reasons, movies are pronounced good and bad all the time - I'm just not sure its worth getting bent out of shape about a poorly executed insertion of girl power. We wouldn't if it was bad because of (for example) humour that doesn't work - we just say "oh well that was crap" and move on without any dissection of ideology and society.

I'm still unclear on what exactly is the false narrative - its false that women traditionally have been over-represented in a weaker roles compared to men? Its false that those roles are considered weak in the first place? Sorry if I'm being particularly dense about this.

No need? I reckon the male suicide rates might contradict your view males don't need any empowerment in life.

For every "strong male" character there's 100 that are weak and dead.
Male suicide has been an issue since long before movies were even a thing, bit disingenuous to make that link.

But the one 'strong male' would typically be the focus of the movie, yeah? If you're counting extras, yeah of course there'll be heaps more that are weak or dead, but that's just the mechanics of a typical action movie - lone hero up against a horde of disposable bad guys. They're not setup for you to relate to the bad dead guys obviously, you're supposed to relate to the hero.

If it was about the $$ they'd be playing it differently as in they'd not be wanting to drive away the goose that lays the golden egg for these kinds of movies, male customers. For all its girl power, it was still the power of the male $ that made CM as much money as it pulled in. 55/45 I think was the audience split.
What do you reckon the split would have been for a comic book movie 15 years ago? I'd guess it would have been nowhere near 55/45.

What you're describing re: driving away male customers simply isn't happening, at least not yet. CM had the 6th best opening of all time and has now made well over $1bn. When (if?) it does start happening, thats when you'll see a change in direction - like I said, ultimately the market decides.
 
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Demonic Ascent

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It's all Hollywood has left, there are no original ideas just reboots, remakes and franchises. So all they've got is "hey, what if James Bond were....A BLACK WOMAN 😲 "
 

Demonic Ascent

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I'm about as leftie as they come these days, but the blatant 'girl-power' in modern TV and cinema does nothing for me really. How about writing great stories where the female is a strong protagonist for the right reasons, rather than replacing male roles with females to show girl-power, which I find a bit patronizing to women anyway. The classic example recently is that moment in Avengers Endgame where all the superhero ladies get together for a girl power moment in the battle. But why highlight it, why not just treat the female superheros the same as the male ones. Give them equal time. That's called equality.
Agreed, I'm on the left politically (some would say extreme left) but I hate this kind of stuff as much as far right conservatism. It's so corny, it's cringeworthy.
 

SM

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It's all Hollywood has left, there are no original ideas just reboots, remakes and franchises. So all they've got is "hey, what if James Bond were....A BLACK WOMAN 😲 "
But she's not playing James Bond. And this is the issue I took with GG's OP because he's repeated this false narrative several times. It's painful.
 

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