Lefties opinions those of a reducing minority

[Frodo]

Satisfaction with John Howard's job as Prime Minister has reached a six-year high, according to the latest Newspoll.

Conducted for The Australian newspaper last weekend, 62 per cent of people surveyed said they were satisfied with Mr Howard's performance - the highest result in six years.

Mr Howard is also the preferred Prime Minister, with 59 per cent of those surveyed saying they thought he would be better in the role than Labor leader Simon Crean.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

If you belive opinion polls you are an idiot.

They prove nothing and show nothing.

Samples are too small, too prone to error, too selective and the way resulkts of a poll are extrapolated to reflect a general community attitude is just plain stupid.

The only thing this poll proves is that the sample feels this way. Not the general population.

Frodo - have you ever been polled ?

Do you know anyone who has ever been polled ?

I haven't, nobody has ever asked my opinion on this or that - yet I'm expected to belivee that just because a couple of thousand people (who were telephoned btw) responded a certain way to a heavily slanted question, I'm supposed to belive this result is the same for the entire community ?

Jeepers - pull the other one !

 

[Pessimistic]

When will the phrase "trendy lefty" be abandoned ?

In the world today it's clearly trendy to be right wing and conservative.

 

[Portia]

Its trendy to be lefty....its just easier to be conservative.

Like how `real' coffee is trendy, but most people drink instant.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
If you belive opinion polls you are an idiot.

They prove nothing and show nothing.

Samples are too small, too prone to error, too selective and the way resulkts of a poll are extrapolated to reflect a general community attitude is just plain stupid.

The only thing this poll proves is that the sample feels this way. Not the general population.

That's funny I seem to remember saying this last year after the Swans were named Australias most popular AFL side or whatever it was.... Didn't get the same opinions from RedAndWhite.Com I can tell you....

 

[ah_19]

im betting most of the people that dont have phones would go for labour though
what % of people dont have phones

dont be distracted from reality by a poll, nobody actually "likes" howard, they would just shoot crean wtih the first bullet

 

[Bomber Spirit]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Do you know anyone who has ever been polled ?

In the leadup to the 1998 federal election I copped at least 3 phone calls every night from all sorts of people wanting political opinions. Pain in the neck. Then there was the junk mail - who knows how many trees were pulped to bombard me with political stuff.
Then they changed the boundaries for the 2001 election, and even though I was living in the same house, because I was now in Mitchell rather than Parramatta; not one phone call, no junk mail, nothing.

But, whatever the voting intentions in opinion polls, can anyone ever remember, in any state or federally, an opposition leader being preferred prime minister/premier?

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Opinion polls taken three months after an election mean diddly squat.

Besides, things can change very quickly (Tampa anyone?).

If this poll result was taken three months before an election then the labor party would have some serious issues, right now I don't think it would be troubling Crean and co all that much.

 

[Dr AlfAndrews]

Well, I guess it all depends on who you talk to and where you spend your time.

I live in inner Melbourne and anyone in this area who would admit to supporting John Howard would be regarded as something of a freak. None of the people I mix with support the Liberal Party. A few of them support Labor. But most of the people I know vote Green or Socialist ... either that, or they refuse to vote because they know that parliamentary democracy is a bloody great sham.

Voting Liberal is definitely something that people in the suburbs do ... Like mowing their lawns on Sunday ... And washing their cars .... BORING

Among the people that really matter, absolutely NO-ONE votes Liberal.

Actually, I've heard a lot of Western Australians vote Liberal ...

Yeah. That would be right.

Western Australians ... and suburban drones.

He's YOUR Prime Minister ... not mine.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thats really interesting Bomber Spirit

I guess you are only considered 'important' and your opinion is 'valued' by people such as pollsters if you live in a marginal or swinging electorate.

... which kinda implies that the rest of us don't really matter ?

cheers

 

[London Dave]

Interesting thoughts BSA, I read a book a couple of months back hypothesising exactly that...politicians now only target the 'swinging' voter/key electorates, knowing that the traditional supporters will vote for them anyway. I'll dig it up and post the title/author. Its exactly what happend in Oz, probably in the last decade, maybe even longer. I think it used to be called 'pork barreling' or some such quaint term.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Dr AlfAndrews
something that people in the suburbs do ... Like mowing their lawns on Sunday ... And washing their cars .... BORING

Oi! I'll take mowing the lawn or washing the car over being nagged by tglw any day!

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Dr AlfAndrews
Voting Liberal is definitely something that people in the suburbs do ... Like mowing their lawns on Sunday ... And washing their cars .... BORING

Wow.....I had no idea that voting for Labor, Democrats or the Greens could be one big thrill ride. And I've voted for them! Please tell me where to apply for my own dose of wet & wild excitement.

Among the people that really matter, absolutely NO-ONE votes Liberal.

Indeed. And the ones that matter all drink `real' coffee too, I suppose.

 

[TigerTank]

I'm finding this whole thread terribly amusing.

 

[Dave]

You would

 

[Fat Red]

Originally posted by Dr AlfAndrews

Among the people that really matter, absolutely NO-ONE votes Liberal.

If they are the people that really matter, why aren't they running the country?

 

[Dr AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Fat Red


If they are the people that really matter, why aren't they running the country?

This country isn't worth running.

 

[Dr AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by sandeano
... As someone who has almost always voted left, who is a Union Rep, who has marched in protests and has done voluntary work for the Labour Party ...

You call the Labor Party the "left"? Gimme a break.

... here you are PROVING, once and for all why the left is currently out in the cold.

Out in the cold are we? The times they are a-changin', comrade. We'll see who's "out in the cold" when the arse falls out of capitalism.

Once upon a time, say, over 30 years ago, the Left's heartland was the inner city, for it was there that the working class struggled to eke out a living in the apalling slums that are now highly prized, trendy inner city dwellings.

... hmm ... depends how you define "inner-city". The yuppies have taken Fitzroy, I'll grant you that ... but North Fitzroy and Northcote are still pretty staunch. In the seat of Melbourne, the Greens got close to 30% of the vote at the last election. And despite the yuppification of the whole area, the Liberals didn't get a look in. We're still a minority, but we're a growing minority. We WILL win Melbourne within the next two elections. Labor is irrelevent to the inner-Melbourne Left.

And where was the promised land for the working class? The suburbs. Yep, thanks to leftist policies of compassion and fairness, much of the misery of the poor has been alleviated and they are now able to scrape up enough from unskilled or trade labor to put down a deposit on a modest home in, say, Laverton or Cranbourne ...

Oh, yeah ... wonderful stuff. Until the working class get so affluent that they start thinking like the capitalists. The more established these outer suburbs get, the more conservative they become. So, where are the "leftist policies of compassion and fairness now". The spineless gutless Labor Party threw all that away when it discovered that the affluent outer suburban working class preferred bloody-mindedness to compassion. There's no votes in compassion, mate.

For those that CANNOT afford to buy, they sure as hell CANNOT afford to rent in the inner city and have to "make do" with a home out of the city.

I'm renting in North Fitzroy. (OK. It's not quite Fitzroy) And I'm on a much lower income that your average "worker" in Laverton. I live here because it's actually cheaper than suburbia. The rents are higher, but you don't have to own a friggen car to get around. Suburbanites are slaves of their cars. It's quite pathetic really.

It is these people you despise - the suburbanites - who look to the left for support and leadership ...

BOLLOCKS.

Honestly, I don't have a lot in life, but I take a bit of pride in keeping my car clean and my lawn trimmed. It fosters a sense of community and making a effort in the modest area I live in.

And it's also friggen annoying having to put up with you bastards mowing your lawns ... We even get a few of 'em in North Fitzroy, I must admit. They actually wear ear-muffs ... Can you believe it ... They wear ear-muffs while they mow their f-cken lawns. Too bad about the noise they're inflicting on everyone else ... oh, I'm alright, Jack ... I've got my bloody ear-muffs ... stuff everyone else.
I'm glad you've got a nice clean car, mate ... Pity about all the filth it pumps into the air. You'd be one of those environmental vandals that clogs up the inner suburbs with your filthy rotten petrol fumes as you commute to your job in town, I s'pose.

And because I do that it does not mean I cannot write letters decrying the government's treatment of asylum seekers, protest on environmental issues and ensure the rights of my fellow workers are looked after.

... Well that would make you a member of a very small minority among outer suburban dwellers. I'm sure the lunatic Right has a much stronger following than the Left in your particular (red) neck of the woods.

Alf I hope you change your ways because you are the epitome of the ugly left that has not so much turned people off, as turned them away.

Yeah ... and I love you too, arse-wipe.

 

[Briedis]

The main reason, in my opinion, why the Libs would be in front is that Labour (and I won't call them the left....) have not had any strong leaders who actually voise opinions and state what there policies are. They are content to play defensive politics without having to commit to anything.

Why WOULD anyone vote for a POLITICAL party that can not even commit to some POLICIES?

 

[Fat Red]

Coming back to Frodo's point, in order to discuss politics with someone who still has a slight grip on reality,

Six out of six State Labor governments.

 

[sandeano]

These things go in cycles. It was not that long ago that 5 of the state Governments were liberal and before that they were all Labour again.

Due to their being little difference between the parties these days, the populace just tends to get sick of one mob and decided to give the other lot a go. And you'll generally find that if the majority of State govts are of one political persuasion, federally the opposition is in control.

 

[Dr AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by sandeano
I see that Herr Doktor has gone for the red text as a way of proving his leftist credentials to me.

Would you prefer green, maybe?

The fact ... is that I was a member of the Labour Party long, long ago...when they actually stood for something. These days I tend to vote Green, but buggered if I know why as I might as well still vote Labour for all the difference it makes when the votes are counted.

You must be very very old then, comrade. Didn't they abandon socialism in the 20s? You're right about the Green preferences going to Labor ... But I s'pose it's (marginally) better than the other mob getting them.

Pathetic to know that the left I once was a staunch supporter of is now passive and waiting for Capitalism to end. *sigh* Once upon a time we were active in getting it to fall. Such a pity.

Hey ... I'm not the voice of The Left. I'm sure there's still plenty of activists out there trying to make a revolution. I tend to go with the "softly softly catchee monkey" approach. Why get your head kicked in by police horses when all you've really got to do is sit back and wait to seize the moment. And it IS coming. Capitalism is a self-defeating phenomenon. It is unsustainable. It is yesterday's philosophy for yesterday's people. Be patient, my son.

It requires more than just winning a few inner-city seats to gain any real power. Correction - you MAY end up holding a balance of power and influencing governmental policy, however I despise that little flaw in the Westminister system, for if it is just as easy for, say, the Greens to hold the balance, then it won't take much trouble for One nation or the like to to the same.

This is actually a misconception about the nature of the Westminster system. There's nothing unfair about the "balance of power" concept.
Consider this hypothetical example.
Imagine there are 15 seats in our Parliament.
7 of them are held by the Extreme Right Party (i.e. the ERP)
7 of them are held by the Slightly To The Left of the Extreme Right Party (i.e. the STTLOTERP)
1 seat is held by the Green Left Party (i.e. the GLP)

The two major parties are arguing as to whether we should imprison ALL Muslims ... or whether we should just imprison Muslim men. The ERP wants all of them locked up. The STTLOTERP wants to let the women and children go free. The GLP is totally opposed to the imprisonment of Muslims.

OK. The two main parties BOTH want to imprison Muslim men but there is a helluva fight in the Parliament over whether women and children should go free. Eventually it comes down to the GLP to break the deadlock. They choose what they see as the lesser of two evils, and vote with the STTLOTERP. They have broken the deadlock between the two major parties. But they haven't been able to get their own policy adopted because they don't have the numbers. They can't initiate legislation. They can only use a casting vote to support what they see as the lesser of two evils. Their power is commensurate with their electoral support ... What's unfair about that?

It would have thought it advisable to attempt to convert as many Australians as possible to the left, through education and understanding. However, as it appears that you don't want/can't be bothered to pay any heed to the great, vast unwashed of the suburban sprawl. Sure, just keep on keeping on and preach to those converted. Don't under any circumstances think of EXTENDING your reach. Laziness.

I plead guilty to laziness, I s'pose ... Or maybe I just can't be bothered bashing my head against the wall ... If I really thought people would listen to what I'm saying I'd be out there with bells on. But they'd just write me off as a red-ragging greenie tree-hugging dole-bludging commie NTTAWWTter. So what would I achieve?
Nah ... bugger that ... Too much like hard work, I reckon. The 'burbs will come round in the fullness of time. Just wait till the inevitable collapse of the existing economic order and watch em go all bolshy when they're all out of work and they can't pay their mortgages on their little slice of suburbia any more. They'll come runnin' ... No need to chase them.

Let me tell you now Doktor, that because a person gets sick to death of paying rent and decides to buy a house of their own does NOT mean that they sacrifice all their morals and ethics. And they sure as hell do not abandon being members of the working class.

So they get sick of paying rent ... and decide to spend the rest of their lives in hock to the bank instead. And, of course, they become members of the Wage-Slave-In-Hock-To-The-Bank Class, which is kinda like the working class turned ugly. And because they're in hock and their lives don't belong to them ... they get VERY VERY BITTER ... and they tend to take that bitterness out on whoever they can kick around and still get away with it. Like reffos, or dolies, or whoever they perceive as being below them in the kicking pile.
Very sad ... but very true.

How the hell you can group all suburbs under the one umbrella defies belief.

It's plead guilty time again ... Yep. Good call. A very silly generalisation on my part. My evidence is pretty subjective. I base it on what I see and what I hear and what I read. But I'm only getting one perspective on that ... my own.
I suppose I probably should have let Frodo's original troll go through to the proverbial keeper .. but he just sounded so bloody smug about winning the election that I had to take a swing at him. I accept that my original rave about suburbanites being irrelevent was offensive. Perhaps I should just say "smug sandgropers called Frodo are irrelevent".
That's not quite an apology ... but it's probably as close as you'll get.

You are such a clown. I live a 5 minute walk from my work and my wife catches a train. We have a car simply to do the shopping and to tend to my ailing parents. Perhaps $10 at most is what we spend on petrol a week. Add that to the $25 in train fares and that makes $35 I can take into consideration.

Err, excuse me ... $10 on petrol, eh? ... And, err, what about rego? ... And there is also the small matter of the actual cost of the car itself. Trust me on this one ... public transport is a lot, lot cheaper.
But, hey ... it's your money, mate.

Okay Alf...here's a little job for you (you appear top have a lot of free time on your hands) I want you to find a 3 bedroom house in North Fitzroy, one with a garage and a large yard for $220 a week.

Well, I'm not gunna go running around house-hunting for you, mate ... But I reckon if you go and see Doherty's on High St, Northcote ... and look through their properties to rent ... you'll find a 3-bedroom house to let for something like the figure you mentioned ... maybe slighly more ... let's say $250. If not in North Fitzroy, then certainly in Northcote. Can't guarantee the back yard. We tend to live a bit more cramped in this part of the world. As for the garage ... who needs a bloody garage when you haven't got a car? Believe me ... public transport is a much better way to get around.
OK. I hear you, brother ... I know you've got ailing parents ... City-living ain't for everyone.
But, yes, I did keep a straight face when I said it's cheaper to live close to the city ... for me it certainly is ... No kids ... No car ... No ailing parents. I've got a low-impact lifestyle ... and I'm very grateful for it.


I use a hand mower, for it makes little noise, requires no petrol and is easy to fix and transport. It is also great for exercise.

Very good. You're not as stupid as I thought you were. It just goes to show how you shouldn't form judgements on people based on one post on a bulletin board.
One again ... I plead guilty.


But that's right, you don't have lawns, trees, chlorophyl in North Fitzroy. Good to see the Greens having such an affinity with the land.

Ah, come off it ... Do you really think that having a perfectly manicured lawn and nicely trimmed trees and shrubs constitutes having an "affinity with the land" ... Pull the other one.
Look, I've got this tiny little strip of a backyard. It's big enough to hang the washing up ... but only just. It's grown over with what some people call weeds ... but I reckon it's bloody beautiful ... just like it is. Anyway, a couple of years back I noticed this particular "weed" was getting quite big. It just kept growing and growing ... After a while I noticed that it was looking more like a tree than a weed. It's now higher than the house ... It's a bloody avocado tree. And the only reason it exists is because I'm too lazy to do the gardening. Nature works best when people leave it alone, I reckon.


While you are contemplating your foccacia toppings at lunch time this Saturday, I will be doing (unpaid) re-vegetaion work on the Darebin Creek.

Now ... you're the one making unwarranted assumptions. Tsk. Tsk.
Foccaccia is absolutely OFF my diet. Gotta watch that waistline, y'know.
As for the Darebin Creek work ... Well done. I know I said before that nature works best when it's left alone, but there are situations where human intervention is needed to repair the damage done by previous human intervention.
Once again ... Well done.

Yep, Reservoir, Redneck Wonderland.

RESERVOIR ! ! !
I thought you said you lived in the SUBURBS.

Try and have a rational discussion with the Doktor and he answers with abuse. Charming.

Well ... excuse me ... but I don't think your post to me was exactly Nobel Peace Prize winning material either. Jee-sus F. Christ. I hope you barrack for Collingwood. I'd hate to clash with you in the footy season.

P.S. I just checked your profile ... bloody RICHMOND. Have you met my good mate Joffa yet ... he absolutely LOVES Richmond supporters.

 

[Dr AlfAndrews]

Hey ... It's OK.

Yeah ... we are on the same side and I bet Frodo's pissing himself laughing right now.

Ah well ... he who laughs last ...

I always feel like a real goose when I post something off the top of my head about someone I don't know anything about, and then find out I've got a completely wrong impression of them.

And may Richmond have a good year ... except when they play Collingwood.

 

[floreat picaman]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
If you belive opinion polls you are an idiot.

They prove nothing and show nothing.

Samples are too small, too prone to error, too selective and the way resulkts of a poll are extrapolated to reflect a general community attitude is just plain stupid.

The only thing this poll proves is that the sample feels this way. Not the general population.

Frodo - have you ever been polled ?

Do you know anyone who has ever been polled ?

I haven't, nobody has ever asked my opinion on this or that - yet I'm expected to belivee that just because a couple of thousand people (who were telephoned btw) responded a certain way to a heavily slanted question, I'm supposed to belive this result is the same for the entire community ?

Jeepers - pull the other one !

That's funny coming from someone who says Sydney is Australia's favourite football team based on OH NO...A POLL!

How duplicitious!

 

[floreat picaman]

Originally posted by Pessimistic
When will the phrase "trendy lefty" be abandoned ?

In the world today it's clearly trendy to be right wing and conservative.

You are right, looney lefty is more appropriate!