Opinion Leigh Matthews and that season he didn't win the Brownlow . . .

[Osho]

The thing about Matthews is that, he had so may strings to his bow he would have been fantastic in any era, against all strategies, immune to the jumper push-pulling and gentle inmtimidation of today, would flourish in all types of games. If he was born in an era when on-field violence was not accepted, revelled in, and encouraged within clubs and ignored by the authorities, like today's era, he would still dominate. He'd be a couple of inches shorter than most oppo, but that woiuldn't stop him getting the ball, avoiding tackles, staying on his feet and delivering. That can't be said about all greats from the past.

The Flower comparison is interesting, he was a glorious player, could do everything (though can't recall much of an inside game - call me out Dees fans, I may be wrong), maybe one thing he did regularly that I never saw Matthews do was run the field, marking the kick-in, and bouncing and dodging his way through traffic into the forward line, or being involved in one-twos to run the ball the full ground. There was one game against Richmond at the MCG in the mid 80s he did this repeatedly and I was aghast that it couldn't be stopped without some rugged stuff, and even then, not so much.

Matthews was explosive and great in heavy traffic. I think the modern fan who never saw Matthews play, and even some older folk who didn't see him much, may assume he was all aggression and that, ideirco, not very skilled. Couldn't be more wrong. It is one of the cases when stats do tell the modern fan more than the sketchy youtube highlights.

The first quarter brawl in the 1985 GF always fascinated me. It was a sliding doors moment. Not for the teams, Hawks would lose but return to the top pretty quickly, immediately actually, and be the reason that the Bombers could not create a proper dynasty even with the team they had, and the Bombers would be left unsated thinking, we should have won more with that team. It was a sliding doors brawl for Matthews and Brereton - Matthews clearly was not his old self and was mostly ineffective in the skirmish, whilst Dermott, the naughty fellow, stepped up and took the reins as the Hawks wildman in wonderful style.

 

[Generation X]

The thing about Matthews is that, he had so may strings to his bow he would have been fantastic in any era, against all strategies, immune to the jumper push-pulling and gentle inmtimidation of today, would flourish in all types of games. If he was born in an era when on-field violence was not accepted, revelled in, and encouraged within clubs and ignored by the authorities, like today's era, he would still dominate. He'd be a couple of inches shorter than most oppo, but that woiuldn't stop him getting the ball, avoiding tackles, staying on his feet and delivering. That can't be said about all greats from the past.

The Flower comparison is interesting, he was a glorious player, could do everything (though can't recall much of an inside game - call me out Dees fans, I may be wrong), maybe one thing he did regularly that I never saw Matthews do was run the field, marking the kick-in, and bouncing and dodging his way through traffic into the forward line, or being involved in one-twos to run the ball the full ground. There was one game against Richmond at the MCG in the mid 80s he did this repeatedly and I was aghast that it couldn't be stopped without some rugged stuff, and even then, not so much.

Matthews was explosive and great in heavy traffic. I think the modern fan who never saw Matthews play, and even some older folk who didn't see him much, may assume he was all aggression and that, ideirco, not very skilled. Couldn't be more wrong. It is one of the cases when stats do tell the modern fan more than the sketchy youtube highlights.

The first quarter brawl in the 1985 GF always fascinated me. It was a sliding doors moment. Not for the teams, Hawks would lose but return to the top pretty quickly, immediately actually, and be the reason that the Bombers could not create a proper dynasty even with the team they had, and the Bombers would be left unsated thinking, we should have won more with that team. It was a sliding doors brawl for Matthews and Brereton - Matthews clearly was not his old self and was mostly ineffective in the skirmish, whilst Dermott, the naughty fellow, stepped up and took the reins as the Hawks wildman in wonderful style.

Flower was a winger, I don't recall him ever going into the middle, happy to be corrected though. Outside run, great kick and evasive skills and a wonderful mark, pretty amazing that someone can be so good during that era with his build.

But to see the best of Flower watch his games for Vic. Played for the state 15 times, was captain for 2 years. At Melbourne he was always in an ordinary team, you didn't get to see how good he really was until you saw him dominate when surrounded by the best.

 

[Back One Out]

That I disagree with. Even these innate skills are trainable - reading the game, snapshots, goal sense, ball handling.

Players can train, improve themselves and be the very best they can be. But there's a ceiling to how good you can be.

The best players are the best players for a reason. I don't know if they're born with talent, or if talent is the product of a good learning environment from a very young age and sustained practise through your primary school and high school years. Maybe a combination of good genes, early learning, muscle memory & character building.

Either way, you can't teach average players to be champions. Otherwise, every hack from the state leagues would train themselves up to be the equal of Pendlebury, Selwood, Bontempelli or Oliver. That just doesn't happen.

99.99% of the gun players were always gun players. Ruckman and tall forwards/defenders are sometimes the exception. But we're not really talking about the specialised big players. Thinking more of the average-sized ball players (175cm-193cm) and the footy basics.

 

[Osho]

Flower was a winger, I don't recall him ever going into the middle, happy to be corrected though. Outside run, great kick and evasive skills and a wonderful mark, pretty amazing that someone can be so good during that era with his build.

But to see the best of Flower watch his games for Vic. Played for the state 15 times, was captain for 2 years. At Melbourne he was always in an ordinary team, you didn't get to see how good he really was until you saw him dominate when surrounded by the best.

Yep, the Big V performances were sublime.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Geez, if that was so, they would've needed to build a lot of jails to house all the footballers & rugby players who threw punches in suburban, country, amateur and professional matches around Australia from 1965 to 1985

Fawkner and Thomastown in the Ammo's in the 90's would have all been locked up.

It was just a different era...not right, just different. Every week I was belted and whilst I never dished it out first, I would go out of my way to reciprocate. And being in the ruck, it was a lot easier to mistake a head for the ball

 

[nineteen eighty]

Some great, and forgotten, names on those lists...Garry Wilson for one. Star.

I'm glad someone called out Wilson. What a magnificent player he was.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I remember Jason Dunstall Kicked 145 goals in 1992 came 2nd in the Brownlow a great year by any forward in a long time.

What would he have to have kicked to win it?

 

[Mr north man]

What would he have to have kicked to win it?

The way he played probably another 20 to 30 goals but he was a team player as he used to give up a lot of goals in his career.
But now it’s a mid fielder award.

 

[yodellinhank]

The way he played probably another 20 to 30 goals but he was a team player as he used to give up a lot of goals in his career.
But now it’s a mid fielder award.

20 to 30 goals would definitely get him the 3 votes you'd reckon.

 

[deanc]

I'm glad someone called out Wilson. What a magnificent player he was.

I played on Wilson during a pre-season match in the early 80s. To say I just got my pants pulled down, would be an insult to his ability..! Lovely fella too, unlike a lot of boof-heads back then, who were mostly those who thought they were champions...

 

[Osho]

I played on Wilson during a pre-season match in the early 80s. To say I just got my pants pulled down, would be an insult to his ability..! Lovely fella too, unlike a lot of boof-heads back then, who were mostly those who thought they were champions...

He is criminally forgotten for being a very gutsy and fearless bloke, lacking size, a great player, with no wiff of scandal or assholery about him at all. I met him just after he retired and couldn't believe how slight he was, and how unaffected he was about who he was.

 

[Coops93]

My Poppa hates Matthews. He barely acknowledges how good a player because of how big a thug he was, in his mind he was the worst ever that regard.

When I say "Surely you think he was a good player" he winces in pain to admit it, such is the amount he loathes him for his extracurricular behaviour.

 

[loki04]

Perhaps umpires didn't consider him the fairest.

Lmao and now they worry about a player when a fly farts on them.

 

[ExileOnArdenStreet]

He is criminally forgotten for being a very gutsy and fearless bloke, lacking size, a great player, with no wiff of scandal or assholery about him at all. I met him just after he retired and couldn't believe how slight he was, and how unaffected he was about who he was.

I speak to him regularly at the gym we both frequent, one of the nicest, down to earth guys you'll meet. As a player would rate him near GAJ. He was a champ.

 

[Osho]

I speak to him regularly at the gym we both frequent, one of the nicest, down to earth guys you'll meet. As a player would rate him near GAJ. He was a champ.

Absolutely. I remember he and Rob Flower putting on footy clinics wearing the Big V, 2 guys from middling clubs, as clean as snow, as good as any other players, getting a chance to show everyonevehat they could do.

Wilson must be 70 yo now, still working out, I am not surprised actually.

 

[ExileOnArdenStreet]

Absolutely. I remember he and Rob Flower putting on footy clinics wearing the Big V, 2 guys from middling clubs, as clean as snow, as good as any other players, getting a chance to show everyonevehat they could do.

Wilson must be 70 yo now, still working out, I am not surprised actually.

Hard to find footage of him, but the goal at 1min 20, superb.

 

[Osho]

Hard to find footage of him, but the goal at 1min 20, superb.

All class.
I've forgotten so much over the years, that Thommo went to Sth, played alongside big Barry Round, pretty lumbering pair there.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[The hands of stone]

Only way to describe that season is he absolutely ' took the pi55 '

 

[deanc]

Hard to find footage of him, but the goal at 1min 20, superb.

As mentioned earlier, I actually played on Wilson in a pre-season practice match at the Junction Oval in the early 80's. He pulled my pants down, turn me inside out a few times, made me look way out of my league, which I was - so I faked an injury (hammy tweak) just to get off the ground away from him..!
All said, while a fierce competitor, he was also a very humble genuine bloke, which was rare back in those days. Unlike superstar Quinlan and others they rarely bothered to find you and shake your hand after the match, but GW did...

 

[Power Raid]

Perhaps umpires didn't consider him the fairest.

gutless in today's standards

it's hard to think coward punches were ever considered tough

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Obviously being young, I didn't get to watch him but rewatching all of his stuff. My dad isn't too old but was old enough to remember Leigh and all the stories he tells me unreal.

The fact he was so tough, strong and competitive with that mental game, compare that to another sport like Basketball with Michael Jordan for example.

He's probably at that level. He was a thug, as many know but alot of people were back then.

His skills, ability to win it, inside, outside, dual footed kicking, penetration in his kicks and being able to weight them perfectly, reading the play and reading the game, the strong body and hip strength to be so hard to tackle. Keeping his feet, he really was a video game character.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

1970 was even worse from that standpoint

Hudson kicked 146 goals from 22 matches for a team which missed the finals and finished 8th (10 wins, 12 losses)

He polled just 14 Brownlow votes (4-0-2)

His goal tallies that year: 13, 11, 11, 9, 9, 9, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 6, 6, 6, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 3, 3, 2

Mckenna kicked 128 in the same h&a and polled 11.

In 1971 he kicked 130 and polled 6

In 1972 he kicked 130 and polled 8

 

[Baird]

Never even heard of John Murphy or Garry Wilson. Fitzroy had a lot of champions didn't they

 

[Osho]

Mckenna kicked 128 in the same h&a and polled 11.

In 1971 he kicked 130 and polled 6

In 1972 he kicked 130 and polled 8

What a great and dramatic era. In 70 and 71 we had consecutive GFs when these 2 fellows received heavy blows in H1 respectively, which had devastating effects for the poor ol' pies, and nearly the same for the Hawks if it wasn't for Don Scott standing up and Keddie pulling off a miracle.