Retired Leigh Montagna

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St Mark said:
As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you run out onto the ground, you're declaring yourself fully fit.

Sure, we should have some sympathy for him, and maybe even some respect, for the fact that he played through it, but I make no apologies for if I called his performances poor. If his injuries were causing him to drop off that much, he shouldn't have been playing.
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Have you never played footy before or something? Most players are playing with some sort of niggle or complaint and rarely 100% every game. They still go out there though and try and play their best.
 
Nutsngum said:
Have you never played footy before or something? Most players are playing with some sort of niggle or complaint and rarely 100% every game. They still go out there though and try and play their best.
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So, what, we shouldn't criticise any player, in case they have some injury?
 
St Mark said:
So, what, we shouldn't criticise any player, in case they have some injury?
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No, I have no issue with criticising Montagna for whichever reason. I just find it ridiculous claiming that every player should be 100% in such a game as this.
 

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Have to say I'm a bit concerned about our injury management again myself. I realise we put a few back out on the park when they were injured because if they all sat it out we probably would have been demolished on the scoreboard like perhaps never before, but it seems that we brought Jack Steven back from his preseason injury too soon and consequently he played the entire season with a broken foot that hadn't fully healed and of course then he played on with his mystery upper leg injury as well, rather than going and finding out what was wrong with it and letting his foot heal fully at the same time and now we hear that Joey played a chunk of the season with a cracked leg and groin problems and so-on, so I'm not thrilled with all that. That's not a great way to treat your "prized assets", I wouldn't have thought, even if you are going to get thumped if they don't play, on top of all the others who also missed. I'm sure everyone would have understood if we got completely annihilated because we were not able to field a competitive team and it may have even helped snare us a PP.

I can understand why it has been made public though. If we happen to be shopping him around with others in case we don't do a trade of pick 1 and thus need to trade someone else good, to get that extra top 21 pick, then we would want everyone to know that he had a down year this year due to injury and not that he is just suddenly past it, or anything like that.

It's a real shame that he got injured when he did though, as between round 17 last year and round 7 this year he was averaging 32 possessions and over a goal a game and was in arguably his career best form, having between 31 and 47 possessions in 9 of those 13 games and kicking 15 goals. He of course was the one to stand tallest when Hawthorn obliterated us in round 7, with 39 possessions, 7 tackles and also kicking one of our 4 goals and also having a career-high 20 contested possessions, for instance.

A game like that when your team is getting destroyed doesn't sound like that of someone who's character ought to have been brought into question to me.

As for those who seem to think that if someone walks across a line drawn on a football field that they should somehow perform to 100% of their usual capabilities, even if they are only physically say 60% fit, they are kidding themselves. If you are say 60% fit then you are likely to only perform at around 60% of your usual capabilities, especially over time (when your overall fitness is likely dropping, from presumably not training, due to the injury).

It's admirable that they are willing to go out and play under significant duress (not just physical, but probably also emotional, as they likely get abused for their lower output by those that don't realise they are injured) and when likely lacking their usual fitness, for the sake of their team, who would likely get smashed by even more without them out there to provide leadership, direction, a bigger body and so-on.

Seriously though, what the * is with all these broken bones we've had this year? Are they being given a supplement that inhibits their absorption of calcium or something? :confused:
 
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I think the bones breaking has just been a real unlucky streak more then anything. Theres really nothing that could create a consistent issue there unless someone is poisoning the players somehow ha.

As for the players, well I think we have to give them the benefit of the doubt in managment. Steven probably was, as far as they could see, 100% to go back out. Just like Gilbert, it can be sometimes really difficult to assertain if an issue will reoccur. If they are training 100% then you cant just keep them in cotton wool as the only thing that makes them heal properly is actually using the injured body part.

Remember also that we were more then willing to end seasons early to manage the younger players. Billings, Dunstan, Hickey, Sipposs, Lee, Webster and even Acres were taken off early for surgery or rest rather then risk them further. I have faith that we wont let anyone's career get ruined like Kosi's. Montagna is old enough to decide on his own if the is fit enough to keep going and accept the risk involved which I still doubt was really super severe.
 
Nutsngum said:
No, I have no issue with criticising Montagna for whichever reason. I just find it ridiculous claiming that every player should be 100% in such a game as this.
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I'm not saying that they're 100%, I'm saying that as soon as they put their hand up to play, they're promising to their team mates and to their coach that they're going to give a 4 quarter effort. If Joey was being so affected by the injury that he thought it seriously impacted on his game, IMO he should have missed games.
 
St Mark said:
I'm not saying that they're 100%, I'm saying that as soon as they put their hand up to play, they're promising to their team mates and to their coach that they're going to give a 4 quarter effort. If Joey was being so affected by the injury that he thought it seriously impacted on his game, IMO he should have missed games.
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He played better than the alternative. Obviously he had doctors advice that playing wouldn't make it worse. There are plenty of medical conditions that can affect someone, but that doesn't mean that playing sport will risk making it worse.
 
Nutsngum said:
I think the bones breaking has just been a real unlucky streak more then anything. Theres really nothing that could create a consistent issue there unless someone is poisoning the players somehow ha.

As for the players, well I think we have to give them the benefit of the doubt in managment. Steven probably was, as far as they could see, 100% to go back out. Just like Gilbert, it can be sometimes really difficult to assertain if an issue will reoccur. If they are training 100% then you cant just keep them in cotton wool as the only thing that makes them heal properly is actually using the injured body part.

Remember also that we were more then willing to end seasons early to manage the younger players. Billings, Dunstan, Hickey, Sipposs, Lee, Webster and even Acres were taken off early for surgery or rest rather then risk them further. I have faith that we wont let anyone's career get ruined like Kosi's. Montagna is old enough to decide on his own if the is fit enough to keep going and accept the risk involved which I still doubt was really super severe.
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Is it my imagination or have there been a lot of broken bones at other clubs too?
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Is it my imagination or have there been a lot of broken bones at other clubs too?
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On the Recruit a few weeks ago, Ben Dixon made an excellent comment when discussing Aussie Rules. He said that we were no longer a contact sport, but were now a collision sport. Lot in that comment, when you think of it and goes some of the way to explaining the number of broken bones occurring.
 
There are typically 3 reasons for the lower body injuries that we are seeing:
  • poor gait (putting too much load on one bone);
  • hard surface (hello Etihad);
  • too much running or an increased load plus extra weight (Richo's mantra to train more).
The first issue can be typically resolved with orthotics and other rehab (think Gardy when he came over).

Nothing we can do about Etihad "The Rock" Stadium other than to better cater for it (bring on Junction Oval rehab after games!!)

We can better manage the load on players.......:eek:

IMO many could have been better managed. Take a look at the injuries this year - Dunstan shoulder (played injured, should have topped playing), Sippo shoulder (played injured), Billings hammy (too many games for a kid), Webster (too much running), Gilbert (bulked up and too much running), Hickey (tendonitis lead to a bad foot and then increased load = disaster), Steven (no pre-season then too much load to catch-up), Joey (load), Acres (young body).

There is a reason that blokes like Tuck played 400 games - they were given 3 years to mature in the Reserves before getting smashed in the Seniors.

Hawthorn do it to a degree and so do the Swans. I know we need to fast track but sometimes another year in the reserves can prolong a career by years. Many people hammer Sippos for being soft and yet he came to the club as a twig and is a late developer. Putting aside attitude concerns - he was not physically ready to play as many games as he did and now has a stuffed shoulder from trying to be a tough guy instead of a sweeper.
 
tbarker said:
There are typically 3 reasons for the lower body injuries that we are seeing:
  • poor gait (putting too much load on one bone);
  • hard surface (hello Etihad);
  • too much running or an increased load plus extra weight (Richo's mantra to train more).
The first issue can be typically resolved with orthotics and other rehab (think Gardy when he came over).

Nothing we can do about Etihad "The Rock" Stadium other than to better cater for it (bring on Junction Oval rehab after games!!)

We can better manage the load on players.......:eek:

IMO many could have been better managed. Take a look at the injuries this year - Dunstan shoulder (played injured, should have topped playing), Sippo shoulder (played injured), Billings hammy (too many games for a kid), Webster (too much running), Gilbert (bulked up and too much running), Hickey (tendonitis lead to a bad foot and then increased load = disaster), Steven (no pre-season then too much load to catch-up), Joey (load), Acres (young body).

There is a reason that blokes like Tuck played 400 games - they were given 3 years to mature in the Reserves before getting smashed in the Seniors.

Hawthorn do it to a degree and so do the Swans. I know we need to fast track but sometimes another year in the reserves can prolong a career by years. Many people hammer Sippos for being soft and yet he came to the club as a twig and is a late developer. Putting aside attitude concerns - he was not physically ready to play as many games as he did and now has a stuffed shoulder from trying to be a tough guy instead of a sweeper.
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How can you positively say that about all those players? You seem to be speculating a fair bit. I don't doubt that we may have pushed our players too hard but to say that is the definitive reason for their respective injuries a long long bow to draw...
 

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felsty said:
How can you positively say that about all those players? You seem to be speculating a fair bit. I don't doubt that we may have pushed our players too hard but to say that is the definitive reason for their respective injuries a long long bow to draw...
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Not saying it definitively mate. I started with "typically" because I only have mail on a few of the injuries and the rest is based on my experience working in the rehab/fitness space. What is fact is the inordinate number of the same type of injury for it to be a coincidence IMO. Trends like that typically start for a reason. That said - it is not an exact science and often the fitness guys won't know how far they can push a player until they snap. They have managed soft tissue stuff really well this year and from all reports they do a great job. What concerns me is that some injuries have a Thommo feel about them (i.e shouldn't have kept playing....)
 
tbarker said:
There are typically 3 reasons for the lower body injuries that we are seeing:
  • poor gait (putting too much load on one bone);
  • hard surface (hello Etihad);
  • too much running or an increased load plus extra weight (Richo's mantra to train more).
The first issue can be typically resolved with orthotics and other rehab (think Gardy when he came over).

Nothing we can do about Etihad "The Rock" Stadium other than to better cater for it (bring on Junction Oval rehab after games!!)

We can better manage the load on players.......:eek:

IMO many could have been better managed. Take a look at the injuries this year - Dunstan shoulder (played injured, should have topped playing), Sippo shoulder (played injured), Billings hammy (too many games for a kid), Webster (too much running), Gilbert (bulked up and too much running), Hickey (tendonitis lead to a bad foot and then increased load = disaster), Steven (no pre-season then too much load to catch-up), Joey (load), Acres (young body).

There is a reason that blokes like Tuck played 400 games - they were given 3 years to mature in the Reserves before getting smashed in the Seniors.

Hawthorn do it to a degree and so do the Swans. I know we need to fast track but sometimes another year in the reserves can prolong a career by years. Many people hammer Sippos for being soft and yet he came to the club as a twig and is a late developer. Putting aside attitude concerns - he was not physically ready to play as many games as he did and now has a stuffed shoulder from trying to be a tough guy instead of a sweeper.
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:thumbsu: An excellent post Always great to see insight (speculation) into player management, especially when its done well.
 
I just posted this in response to someone saying that Joey was only "B-grade" in a thread on the main board (someone else suggested just B-!), so I may as well post it here as well, also as just a reminder of how he was going prior to his injuries to anyone that was happy for us to just offload him for not much return this past offseason:

Montagna has made two AA teams in the past 6 years, has come top 6 in every one of our last 8 B&F's (including coming top 4 in an incredible 7 of those 8, despite us having GF quality teams at times during that period) and at the time he sustained the injuries which derailed his season last year (reportedly a fracture in his leg and apparently also a groin injury, both of which he continued to play on through) was arguably in career best form and better form than just about everyone in the comp. These were his stats between the mid-way point of the 2013 season and the game against Hawthorn last year, around which time he presumably sustained at least one of those injuries:

29 possies, 1 Brownlow vote
35 possies, 1 goal, 3 Brownlow votes
22 possies, 1 goal
35 possies, 3 Brownlow votes (in a losing team)
34 possies, 1 goal
28 possies, 2 goals
35 possies, 1 Brownlow vote (in a losing team)
32 possies
33 possies, 3 goals, 3 Brownlow votes
47 possies, 2 goals, 2 Brownlow votes

then after a slightly down (by the above standards) first 3 weeks to last year (25 possies 1 goal, 27 possies 2 goals, 1 Brownlow vote (in a losing team), 17 possies), he started to really wind up again and over the next 3 weeks churned out these performances:

31 possies, 1 goal, 2 Brownlow votes
32 possies, 2 goals, 3 Brownlow votes (in a losing team)
39 possies, 1 goal (out of our team total of 4 goals)

then his season just fell off a bit of a cliff out of nowhere and he didn't have more than 27 possies again for the rest of the year (after having done so in 13 of his previous 16 games) so I think it's pretty safe to say he sustained at least one of his injuries around the time of that loss to Hawthorn and that he probably carried it, or them, until the end of the season. Prior to that though, it's hard to argue that he wasn't in the best form of his career and in just about the best form of anyone in the comp (19 Brownlow votes and 17 goals in 16 games, in a bottom 3 team, that won just 5 of those 16 games! :eek:).

If the above figures, seemingly only curtailed by at least one significant injury, combined with 8 consecutive top 6 B&F finishes and making two AA teams out of the last 6 doesn't make someone "A grade", then I'd be extremely surprised!
 
aussierulesrules said:
I just posted this in response to someone saying that Joey was only "B-grade" in a thread on the main board (someone else suggested just B-!), so I may as well post it here as well, also as just a reminder of how he was going prior to his injuries to anyone that was happy for us to just offload him for not much return this past offseason:

Montagna has made two AA teams in the past 6 years, has come top 6 in every one of our last 8 B&F's (including coming top 4 in an incredible 7 of those 8, despite us having GF quality teams at times during that period) and at the time he sustained the injuries which derailed his season last year (reportedly a fracture in his leg and apparently also a groin injury, both of which he continued to play on through) was arguably in career best form and better form than just about everyone in the comp. These were his stats between the mid-way point of the 2013 season and the game against Hawthorn last year, around which time he presumably sustained at least one of those injuries:

29 possies, 1 Brownlow vote
35 possies, 1 goal, 3 Brownlow votes
22 possies, 1 goal
35 possies, 3 Brownlow votes (in a losing team)
34 possies, 1 goal
28 possies, 2 goals
35 possies, 1 Brownlow vote (in a losing team)
32 possies
33 possies, 3 goals, 3 Brownlow votes
47 possies, 2 goals, 2 Brownlow votes

then after a slightly down (by the above standards) first 3 weeks to last year (25 possies 1 goal, 27 possies 2 goals, 1 Brownlow vote (in a losing team), 17 possies), he started to really wind up again and over the next 3 weeks churned out these performances:

31 possies, 1 goal, 2 Brownlow votes
32 possies, 2 goals, 3 Brownlow votes (in a losing team)
39 possies, 1 goal (out of our team total of 4 goals)

then his season just fell off a bit of a cliff out of nowhere and he didn't have more than 27 possies again for the rest of the year (after having done so in 13 of his previous 16 games) so I think it's pretty safe to say he sustained at least one of his injuries around the time of that loss to Hawthorn and that he probably carried it, or them, until the end of the season. Prior to that though, it's hard to argue that he wasn't in the best form of his career and in just about the best form of anyone in the comp (19 Brownlow votes and 17 goals in 16 games, in a bottom 3 team, that won just 5 of those 16 games! :eek:).

If the above figures, seemingly only curtailed by at least one significant injury, combined with 8 consecutive top 6 B&F finishes and making two AA teams out of the last 6 doesn't make someone "A grade", then I'd be extremely surprised!
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Spot on mate. Some of us posted the injury around the time and were ignored. Definitely an A grader.


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Joey has been A grade since 2008, I can't even see how you could argue against it. Looking a little slower and older at times the past couple of seasons, but injury free he is still an elite midfielder and comfortably our second best player (equal with Steven, also injury free).
 
Here's what the 2015 Champion Data Prospectus had to say about Montagna:

He averaged his fewest Champion Data ranking points per game of any season since 2006. He averaged 25 fewer points in 2014 than 2013 - the 5th biggest drop of any player to play at least 10 games in both seasons.

He won 23% of his disposals in the defensive 50 - the highest percentage of his career - and as a result has had less impact on the scoreboard, dropping from 2nd to 7th in score involvements at the Saints.
 
359928.jpg

Home » Galleries » AFL 2015 Portraits - St Kilda
AFL 2015 Portraits St Kilda
Mon, 23rd Feb 2015
Image ID: 359928
Leigh Montagna poses for a photograph during the St Kilda Saints 2015 team photo day at the Linen House Centre, Seaford on February 23, 2015. (Photo: Michael Willson/AFL Media)
 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/leigh-montagna-thought-he-encountered-snake-in-backyard-mistakes-it-for-snakeskin-sandal/story-fni5f9q3-1227267618548?from=herald sun_rss

Leigh Montagna thought he encountered snake in backyard, mistakes it for snakeskin sandal

The star St Kilda midfielder was in his garden on the weekend, moving a few trees he had recently cut down and putting them in the hard rubbish. In the process of moving, he spotted a “snake in the corner of my laneway” against the fence.

Montagna then searched for local snake handlers online and found one, who then agreed to leave his family lunch and attend the call-out for a healthy $180 fee.

But when the handler walked into the backyard, Montagna’s shame surpassed his relief.

“He (the handler) has gone over, he’s gone to flick it out and it’s a sandal,” an embarrassed Montagna told Triple M.

Yep. The “snake” was a snakeskin sandal.
 
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