Autopsy Leon Cameron's coaching performance

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

Keys to the Ferrari and all that....
1. His clearly lost the keys down the back of the couch
2. Im pretty sure those keys arent for the ferrari that everyone makes it out to be.

Was handed a ferrari but you need a Hilux or Ranger with a bit of grunt to navigate finals footy. One way running Ferraris look great in May or June but tend to break down come September.

 

[windyhill]

You would've thought that they would've waited before re-signing him.

 

[ess7]

See a lot of ranting and raving by Davis and Shaw down back and the younger team mates seem to just dismiss it. Makes for quite humourous viewing.

 

[Walshawk]

Giants very poorly coached. They play like a U16s rep team. Lots of talented individuals but no structure, plan or discipline.
I was rapt they extended his contract. Gives us other teams a chance.

 

[Damon_3388]

I feel like with the age of the list, 2018-2020 is when they'll really be in their "window".

That being said, they really need to find replacements (either on their list or from outside) for Mumford, Shaw and Stevie J, as they're each looking like they're on declines of varied steepness.

 

[Wayne Swan]

The way I see it, the role of the coach above anything else is to get his team playing like a cohesive unit. Pyke appears to have done this whereas Cameron has not. I don't doubt Cameron's knowledge or ability to coach, I just wonder if maybe there are too many egos in his team to obtain his goal. Just a theory. There's far more to building a premiership than just having a handful of top 10 picks.

Think you'll find they've got more than a handful, can field almost a full team of top 10 picks!

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Their insistence on the obsolete strategy of 'bomb it to the hotspot' is just mind-numbingly idiotic.

Name a defensive unit in the past 5 years that hasn't thrived on teams bombing it in?

They all set up for it, and waltz it out at will.

Yet Cameron still does it. He has a dozen elite users in his team and rather than instructing them to hit up targets, he wastes their skills and 90% of their Inside 50s by coaching them to 'bomb it in'.


Richardson at St Kilda does the same.

It's just ludicrous.



Even if Patton, Lobe and Cameron take 5 contested marks each in 'the hot spot' (which is impossible and hasn't come close to happening for about 30 years) - that's still only 15 goals if they don't miss.



It's so outdated.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Predictions of them winning multiple flags ain't going to happen I reckon.

 

[mick500]

Nothing wrong with it. I wasn't convinced early days but he has done his part.

Funny how when GWS wins everyone gives him no credit and when they lose he gets all the blame.

Funny landscape this football/media world with boys clubs etc and those not in it and the easily swayed general public that run with their s**t.

Jenkins is a seagull remember and tex is a s**t captain. And Eddie goes missing in big games. These are things the media and more gullible general public believe. Ignoring that those 3 players have about 50 goals each and 143 goals between them for the year and clearly work well together.

It's not as simplistic as GWS lost badly in a final = Cameron can't coach.


He got them there for e opportunity. He got them there last year and they looked likely to play in the gf. Losing that prelim wasn his fault, was it?

 

[F_therest]

Predictions of them winning multiple flags ain't going to happen I reckon.

It never was...all the threads and posts about how no team would be able to stand up to GWS or Bulldogs to contend for the premiership was just ridiculous...history shows footy doesn't work this way.

Even Hawthorn who won 3 flags in a row, weren't necessarily the best team in all those years and you always need a bit of luck on your side with injuries etc.

I'm sure if Adelaide go on to win the premiership comfortably someone will make a thread saying Adelaide will steamroll the competition for the next few years...but it won't happen.

 

[Adz]

It never was...all the threads and posts about how no team would be able to stand up to GWS or Bulldogs to contend for the premiership was just ridiculous...history shows footy doesn't work this way.

Even Hawthorn who won 3 flags in a row, weren't necessarily the best team in all those years and you always need a bit of luck on your side with injuries etc.

I'm sure if Adelaide go on to win the premiership comfortably someone will make a thread saying Adelaide will steamroll the competition for the next few years...but it won't happen.

Pies 2018. Lock it in!

 

[00Stinger]

Predictions of them winning multiple flags ain't going to happen I reckon.

Agree. Topping up with old injury prone former guns ala Johnson, Griffen & Deledio isnt the answer either

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I just can't cop Cameron.

Remember that Seinfeld episode where George works out that if you seem angry all the time, people assume you're really busy and working hard hard?

I get that vibe from Cameron.

I reckon he thinks if he can look all concerned and troubled and serious all the time, people will think he knows WTF he's doing.

 

[Blue1980]

I just can't cop Cameron.

Remember that Seinfeld episode where George works out that if you seem angry all the time, people assume you're really busy and working hard hard?

I get that vibe from Cameron.

I reckon he thinks if he can look all concerned and troubled and serious all the time, people will think he knows WTF he's doing.

So he's not penski material?

 

[MisterMarcus]

As I've said, in 2017 the Giants were ruined by injuries. I believe they had literally the worst run of games missed to best 22 players of any team in the league.

It doesn't matter how "talented" and "star-studded" a side is. If you're unable to get remotely your best 22 on the park for most of the season, it's going to have an impact.

Maybe instead of bagging him, we should be praising Cameron for getting a team with this injury run to at least a semi-final?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

As I've said, in 2017 the Giants were ruined by injuries. I believe they had literally the worst run of games missed to best 22 players of any team in the league.

It doesn't matter how "talented" and "star-studded" a side is. If you're unable to get remotely your best 22 on the park for most of the season, it's going to have an impact.

Maybe instead of bagging him, we should be praising Cameron for getting a team with this injury run to at least a semi-final?

Even at their worst for injuries they still had more top 10 picks playing than anyone else in the Comp.

 

[Arc1]

It never was...all the threads and posts about how no team would be able to stand up to GWS or Bulldogs to contend for the premiership was just ridiculous...history shows footy doesn't work this way.

Even Hawthorn who won 3 flags in a row, weren't necessarily the best team in all those years and you always need a bit of luck on your side with injuries etc.

I'm sure if Adelaide go on to win the premiership comfortably someone will make a thread saying Adelaide will steamroll the competition for the next few years...but it won't happen.

Agree with the main point of your post.

But am curious about your Hawthorn example - if it wasn't Hawthorn, then who was the best team in all those years? I'm guessing it's not Fremantle, Sydney, and West Coast seeing as all three were found out on the biggest stage.

Other candidates would be the teams we squeaked past in the Prelims, but nobody got to see how they'd have gone in the GF either. And they weren't in it because... they lost.

(Sorry to pick on something which wasn't your main point, but on Bigfooty the usual story is that Hawthorn won in 2013-2015 because the competition was severely weakened by a compromised draft. It's 2008 that we won despite not being the best team. Probably 1991 and 1989 as well).

 

[PerthBoy86]

The finest example of squandering talent I've seen in awhile. Cameron definitely needs to be held to account. Fine with me, though, I've no interest in seeing the AFL's project do well.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

IMO, the very thing that is now holding the GWS back is the same thing that so annoyed the AFL, and I thought would guarantee a multi-premiership dynasty. They focused on elite talent and had more of it than anyone else (combined!)

Go through their list player-by-player, and they would have (IMO easily) the most talented players in that ranking position across the league. Hell, they are de-listing top 10 picks after 3 years. At most other clubs that player will be kept for 5 seasons even if they show absolutely nothing, based on the value used to acquire.

What they don't have is the hard-working grunt players, the ones running to cover defensive options, providing body contact etc. It's not necessarily the coaches, or even the players themselves - look at the star players across the league - how many of them are great defensive/team-orientated players? GWS has a side full of stars, without the glue filling the gaps.

They have drafted like the AA selectors, playing 3 genuine KPP at either end, and 15 midfielders. Lets go back to the beginning.

If they had followed the GC path, picked up 6-10 senior players, and then traded every 3rd or so pick for more mature players, they would have had a far more rounded side - performed far better early on, and (now that the holes and shortcomings are becoming more obvious) perhaps even a better team right now.

I think the early failure of the GC, and unwillingness of established players to go to these franchises led to the path chosen, and I still believe it would easily be solved simply by continuing to trade stars out as they mature, bringing in more elite talent; but also targeting experienced clubmen and specific position/skillset players from across the league.

They could significantly overpay for these players (in draft selection) in return for other clubs paying part salaries to assist with their exploding salary cap. E.g give Hawthorn a late 1st round pick (18) for Puopolo (who at 29 is only worth mid 2nd round at best IMO), whilst Hawthorn picks up most of Puopolo's salary.

 

[Topkent]

Pretty obvious he isn't getting the best out of the them.
Reguardless of wind and losses ask yourself this.
Are Adelaide playing at their best. Answer is yeah couldn't see him squeezing much more out of that team
Richmond? s**t yeah Hardwicks tigers have 4 stars then a bunch of worker bees all working together.
Sydney. Yep

GWS? Nope.. they don't bring their best often they seem to be just doing enough. Enough ain't enough in September.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Their insistence on the obsolete strategy of 'bomb it to the hotspot' is just mind-numbingly idiotic.

Name a defensive unit in the past 5 years that hasn't thrived on teams bombing it in?

They all set up for it, and waltz it out at will.

Yet Cameron still does it. He has a dozen elite users in his team and rather than instructing them to hit up targets, he wastes their skills and 90% of their Inside 50s by coaching them to 'bomb it in'.


Richardson at St Kilda does the same.

It's just ludicrous.



Even if Patton, Lobe and Cameron take 5 contested marks each in 'the hot spot' (which is impossible and hasn't come close to happening for about 30 years) - that's still only 15 goals if they don't miss.



It's so outdated.

Replying to my own post here, but....

Perfect example tonight of the difference between mindless 'bombing it in' that the Giants usually dish up compared to the sensible approach we're seeing tonight.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Their insistence on the obsolete strategy of 'bomb it to the hotspot' is just mind-numbingly idiotic.

Name a defensive unit in the past 5 years that hasn't thrived on teams bombing it in?

They all set up for it, and waltz it out at will.

Yet Cameron still does it. He has a dozen elite users in his team and rather than instructing them to hit up targets, he wastes their skills and 90% of their Inside 50s by coaching them to 'bomb it in'.


Richardson at St Kilda does the same.

It's just ludicrous.



Even if Patton, Lobe and Cameron take 5 contested marks each in 'the hot spot' (which is impossible and hasn't come close to happening for about 30 years) - that's still only 15 goals if they don't miss.



It's so outdated.

Cameron still insists on his team doing this, and that is why they can't score.

Richardson still does the same at St Kilda.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Cameron still insists on his team doing this, and that is why they can't score.

Richardson still does the same at St Kilda.

Nonsense. Teams enter the 50 to a contest when there's no better option. No coach "insists" on it.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Talk of their window shutting is very premature. Poor form yep. Injuries contributing yep, but should still be better than they are for sure.

But take a look at their list profile. Shaw, Griffen, Deledio near the end. Simpson, Keeffe, Mohr depth. Daniels, Taylor, Flynn, Tizani, Shipley project kids (mostly academy picks), and Cumming, Setterfield, Bonar high draft picks yet to regularly get a game for varying reasons.

Then you get to the real core
Ward 28 De Boer 28 Davis 27 Scully 27
A.Kennedy 26 Haynes 26 Cameron 25 Patton 25 Lobb 25 Shiel 25 Coniglio 24 Greene 24 Tomlinson 24 Buntine 24 Corr 24 Kelly 23 Whitfield 23 Williams 23 Langdon 22 Finlayson 22 Himmelberg 22 Hopper 21 Taranto 20 Perryman 19

I accept all the other criticisms here re: defensive work, two way running, forward entries etc but if you think the door has slammed shut and this core group doesn't have near on 5 years to turn it around still I`m sorry I don't know what to tell you...nothing is guaranteed and they might play their whole ccareers with the same issues but they have a list profile that says you can work with it to finetune some areas rather than start again. 14 guys between 23-28, their window is not shut. It just needs some framework in the form of De Boer types and a proper ruckman to allow it to fully open,

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Talk of their window shutting is very premature. Poor form yep. Injuries contributing yep, but should still be better than they are for sure.

But take a look at their list profile. Shaw, Griffen, Deledio near the end. Simpson, Keeffe, Mohr depth. Daniels, Taylor, Flynn, Tizani, Shipley project kids (mostly academy picks), and Cumming, Setterfield, Bonar high draft picks yet to regularly get a game for varying reasons.

Then you get to the real core
Ward 28 De Boer 28 Davis 27 Scully 27
A.Kennedy 26 Haynes 26 Cameron 25 Patton 25 Lobb 25 Shiel 25 Coniglio 24 Greene 24 Tomlinson 24 Buntine 24 Corr 24 Kelly 23 Whitfield 23 Williams 23 Langdon 22 Finlayson 22 Himmelberg 22 Hopper 21 Taranto 20 Perryman 19

I accept all the other criticisms here re: defensive work, two way running, forward entries etc but if you think the door has slammed shut and this core group doesn't have near on 5 years to turn it around still I`m sorry I don't know what to tell you...nothing is guaranteed and they might play their whole ccareers with the same issues but they have a list profile that says you can work with it to finetune some areas rather than start again. 14 guys between 23-28, their window is not shut. It just needs some framework in the form of De Boer types and a proper ruckman to allow it to fully open,

Lobb is actually ok as a ruck. No pre-season and injury ibterru9ted this year. He was clearly 8yr best last year, and had to rescue a battle w8rn mummy more than once.
I thought we were good with him and Dawson Simpson. Dawson had a great game against Freo but then 9resumabky showed a weakness against the Saints that put him on the outer. Possibly not quick or mobile enough, not obvious when he was shadowing Sandilands.

Lobb is getting a bit better every game and I think he'll be fine. Flynn is a good ruck, just a bit unsure of his qualities in other aspects.