Leppa's Gameplan

[Happy_Neale]

Words are meaningless without context. Saying we weren't expecting a win really isn't a huge deal. The focus is on the effort, not the result. Players aren't stupid, they know who they are up against and know a win isn't likely. Having the effort there even when you know you are going to lose is much more important. And effort is something we have struggled with this year. We aren't consistent, getting that up first will go a long way, and instill good habbits to the playing group.

I don't disagree, but as I have pointed our effort in the first half I believe was partly due to a 'white flag' type of preparation that I think we had for the game.

Should we expect wins? No. But does that mean we just concede the game and play the kids? Or do we go in with a more dare to dream type attitude and see what we can get out of it? I'd prefer the latter but it seems we are in a position where not worrying about competing for the win is deemed a normal preparation.

Maybe it is just impatience or something on my part but I don't see what the benefits are of conceding before the ball is bounced and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who says that isn't what happened yesterday (from the coaches box, in case that wasn't clear).

 

[Happy_Neale]

Also for those saying that thinking or saying we can't win is no big deal, I wonder what would have happened if we had that mentality at 3QT round 13 last year.

 

[John]

I think we are doing this though. Our inclusions this week were the best 2 ressies performers and big Merrett back into the team. We are consistently playing the best performing ressies players. They just happen to be the youngsters. Whether that is a reflection on the senior players being rubbish, or our draftees being really good though i don't know.

I think that we do now. Hard to complain after the injuries and form drop offs in recent weeks. Not sure we did early on though and IMO it set the scen. My comment was made in that I just find the "joy" of high draft picks not to my liking but that just me I guess.

 

[Skoob]

Bitching about the 22 that went out last night for losing is like yelling at the sun for coming up. It might make you feel better, but it isn't going to change a single thing and no sane person will understand why you bother.

Yep, I really don't see this other "winning team" we are leaving out each week.
We possibly could have taken a 'stronger' team, but I see those inclusions as being mostly youngsters as well. It has already been touted that we will likely see more debuts and I think a stronger/fresher team might include the likes of Bourke, McStay, Michael and the return of Lester and perhaps even McGrath.
Realistically though, any Lions team assembled this week would have been soundly beaten so, not sure of the benefit of flying them to Perth to slog it out on that ground.
Before we went, I suspected that we'd see a heap of changes next week. I suppose we'll find out on Thursday.

In regard to the coach's comments about beating top teams, there is a huge difference beaten not expecting to win and not trying to win. Compare the reactions of players who have triumphed over a Hawthorn or Geelong side with a win over GWS or Melbourne. The jubilation of a win is often closely linked to realistic expectation of the the result. Look at our own reactions to a win or loss. When we beat West Coast 2 years ago, when they were top of the ladder, or the 'miracle on grass' the excitement and was stronger because realistically we didn't expect to win, but we are always hopeful.

 

[James North]

Newbies consistently out-performing oldies in the NEAFL.

Team is picked on form, I think?

 

[Skoob]

Also for those saying that thinking or saying we can't win is no big deal, I wonder what would have happened if we had that mentality at 3QT round 13 last year.

You seem to be having trouble distinguishing between "expectation" , "can or can't" or "trying".
You can be realistic and expect to lose while you can or try to win.

 

[POBT]

I know that there is a focus on the inexperience watch type of analysis of the side we select. And fair enough too.

But, let's assume we take out Robbo and Cutler and replace them with Raines and Moloney? How much closer to winning the game are we? Inexperience Watch would tell us we were still probably going to cop a flogging.

 

[POBT]

Coaches talk a lot about process. I'd be very surprised if Leppa mentioned outcomes all that often during the week.

 

[John]

I know that there is a focus on the inexperience watch type of analysis of the side we select. And fair enough too.

But, let's assume we take out Robbo and Cutler and replace them with Raines and Moloney? How much closer to winning the game are we? Inexperience Watch would tell us we were still probably going to cop a flogging.

I agree. As I said in the previous post I felt we set the scene early but not now. We have a bare cupboard at this point in terms of experienced depth. I actually thought we tried our hardest last night. I was going to call out anyone that threw stuff like "not trying" "no heart" etc but there has been no calls that way as far as I recall. Some complained about the 1st 1/4 but from my TV viewing we looked like we tried our guts out but were not good enough.

Losing is debilitating though. I like to think I am a toughened footy fan, I mean I went an watched the Bears get trounced by that record score back in the day, but I have to admit this season has worn me down a bit. I know I will be there at every game but the light at the end of the tunnel just seems far to dim at this point in time. If I feel like that less hardy then me may be turning off. Lets be brutal here, the traffic on this board is as low as I have seen it since I joined

 

[James North]

Coaches talk a lot about process. I'd be very surprised if Leppa mentioned outcomes all that often during the week.

Take care of the process and the outcome takes care of itself.

 

[jackess]

I know that there is a focus on the inexperience watch type of analysis of the side we select. And fair enough too.

But, let's assume we take out Robbo and Cutler and replace them with Raines and Moloney? How much closer to winning the game are we? Inexperience Watch would tell us we were still probably going to cop a flogging.

No but doing in week in week out gives us the 5 or 6 pathetic, uncompetitive matches we've had this year.

Why were we playing Lisle down back ahead of Goose? Why did we have Robbo tagging ahead of Raines? Why did we have Mayes down back ahead of Golby or Harwood?

It's all with a long term view, which I wouldn't mind if we were still playing half decent footy but we have been pathetic all year apart from a couple of quarters here and there.

People us injuries as an excuse and missing all that experience hurts and makes it more strange as why we'd leave out what experience we have left. Unless of course we're looking at giving the kids experience.

 

[Caiphus]

You could see we were trying really hard to work out how we could push back a little against the physical dominance of Freo last night. I think we would have taken the small victories of the first quarter as encouraging. The second quarter was more of the same, but it was like the umpires were afraid that there would be no scores if they didn't intervene and started rewarding Freo for territorial dominance with some whistle love so that the scoreboard reflected the way they saw the match.

That broke our back in the second quarter and they stomped on our necks and kicked away. We tried hard to earn some respect in the second half, but no one was going to look at anything but the scoreboard and the contested stats to tell the story of that game, because it sure as hell wasn't going to be worth watching...

 

[James North]

Why were we playing Lisle down back ahead of Goose? Why did we have Robbo tagging ahead of Raines? Why did we have Mayes down back ahead of Golby or Harwood?

I genuinely think this is mostly because of form. Goose I can't explain - he'd been playing up forward. Maybe because Leppa was considering using him as a KPF?

The rest would be because they're out-performing the other people (Robbo v Raines) in the NEAFL, or that Leppa wants to have a look at them (Lisle/Golby/Harwood) before deciding their future (which might be the scrapheap).

He needs to see how they all perform with his instructions each week. Part of any new setup, I suppose.

 

[POBT]

Why were we playing Lisle down back ahead of Goose? Why did we have Robbo tagging ahead of Raines? Why did we have Mayes down back ahead of Golby or Harwood?

We've had several years of asking these sort of questions. That is what it is like being a bottom club. You try things to see what you can uncover. Moreover, I wouldn't mind betting the other clubs outside the eight are going through something similar.

I'm not agreeing with all of the things Leppa has done but surely this isn't the time to be sticking fat with the tried and true. This is exactly the time to try and find out a bit about our list.

 

[jackess]

I guess it's just really tough when you see your team being this pathetic all year without seeing a clear sign of how the coach can turn it around.

 

[jackess]

We've had several years of asking these sort of questions. That is what it is like being a bottom club. You try things to see what you can uncover. Moreover, I wouldn't mind betting the other clubs outside the eight are going through something similar.

I'm not agreeing with all of the things Leppa has done but surely this isn't the time to be sticking fat with the tried and true. This is exactly the time to try and find out a bit about our list.

Playing this level of footy isn't the time to try what worked last year?

Resorting to what worked last year with Merrett up forward, allowing Goose to play down back is the best (possibly only) good move Leppa has made all year.

Why wouldn't you try Raines as a tagger just to see if it slightly improves how we play? It won't result in more wins but might result in a little bit of improvement which would be nice to see as a supporter.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I guess it's just really tough when you see your team being this pathetic all year without seeing a clear sign of how the coach can turn it around.

I have seen signs that when we start to hold our own in clearances and contested footy that we can play a very good brand of footy for periods of games.

I feel that the ability to win clearances and contested footy will be enhanced by getting games and more preseasons into the young guys, and it should also come with increased fitness in order to sustain the effort for longer and longer periods.

No quick fix, but the path is there if we can keep the list together and keep drafting well.

 

[Dizzle]

Playing this level of footy isn't the time to try what worked last year?

Resorting to what worked last year with Merrett up forward, allowing Goose to play down back is the best (possibly only) good move Leppa has made all year.

Why wouldn't you try Raines as a tagger just to see if it slightly improves how we play? It won't result in more wins but might result in a little bit of improvement which would be nice to see as a supporter.

I agree with this one. I cannot see how having a tagger is a concession that we can't win. Many of the best teams have a designated tagger, and Raines was top 5 in the league in that role last season.

I understand that he isn't the most damaging player with ball in hand (those 23 m up and under kicks!) but surely reducing the influence of the other team's midfield helps Rocky, Reddo and the Rookies get near it? I am tired of trading in Dream Team midfielders from our opponents each week because I know they will have a field day against us.

 

[POBT]

"What worked last year" is a pretty flimsy statement. I suspect what worked last year was having most of our good players available all year, a good draw and youngsters in the 2nd and 3rd year of footy, not their first. And we were still a bottom half side.

My issue with "failing" Leppa is that he's in a position where it is impossible to pass. I'm not saying Leppa is a good, bad or indifferent coach. I'm not saying Leppa has made the right choices all of the time, some of the time or not at all.

I'm saying, in a year where everything has gone wrong, it is unfair to pick at the edges of selection and strategy and somehow come up with a conclusion that the coach is a problem.

 

[jackess]

You'd really hope we have some improvement next year and not have anyone requesting a trade or this club will be on deaths door and its tough to see Rich and Leuenberger playing a full year making much of a difference.

 

[brizrider]

"What worked last year" is a pretty flimsy statement. I suspect what worked last year was having most of our good players available all year, a good draw and youngsters in the 2nd and 3rd year of footy, not their first. And we were still a bottom half side.

My issue with "failing" Leppa is that he's in a position where it is impossible to pass. I'm not saying Leppa is a good, bad or indifferent coach. I'm not saying Leppa has made the right choices all of the time, some of the time or not at all.

I'm saying, in a year where everything has gone wrong, it is unfair to pick at the edges of selection and strategy and somehow come up with a conclusion that the coach is a problem.

I agree. Also, in terms of last year and the differences to this year - I get the feeling that Leppa is trying to avoid the bottom-rank think of just trying to save the furniture and do what you have to do to be competitive and pinch a few feel-good wins (not really meaning to disrespect to Voss even though its unavoidably a bit of a comparison). I think he's taking something of the John Worsfold long-term development approach of 'this is how we are going to play, you're with me or not and you'll develop or not and we'll take the floggings to get there we have if we have to'. If I'm right then I do like the second approach better although I can certainly understand the frustration (I feel it too). I think it has more chance of lifting us from perennial bottom half dwellers. It's almost impossible for outsiders to make good judgements about coaches and directions especially in the modern era where success is such a complicated and whole-of-club effort but I'm really enthusiastic about Leppa as a coach.

 

[13Beast]

No doubt the players know that because they know the coach believes that too. Such a losers mentality.

Perhaps that in itself answers all our questions regarding last night's performance.

 

[13Beast]

I think Leppa let the cat out of the bag when in the press conference post match he said something along the they treated the Freo game as a learning game - getting the young players to see how good Freo were / what they need to work on.

(I read his quotes on the AFL website / but I am paraphrasing it above)

You could tell by team selection that is exactly what we were trying to do. We weren't going in to win the game.

I am not sure I agree with it as a teaching strategy (knowing you won't be competitive) but if there is any game you want to do that for then this one might be the one you pick (although to be honest we have done the same thing a handful of times this year).

For the coach and his staff to not think we were going to win the game and think of the positives it could bring us (yet keep it amongst the coaches group) is FAR different to a coach and his staff actively announcing to his players that we're not going to win the game.

I sincerely hope that it was not the latter.

 

[James North]

For the coach and his staff to not think we were going to win the game and think of the positives it could bring us (yet keep it amongst the coaches group) is FAR different to a coach and his staff actively announcing to his players that we're not going to win the game.

I sincerely hope that it was not the latter.

Check the video out - the post-game press conference was taken out of context in the interview that LOTR is mentioning. I highly doubt the second scenario would ever happen in any environment.

 

[AFLQLD]

I think anyone who has ever been coached or been a coach knows what coaches mean and what they expect of their team. Leppa didn't play to lose but nor did he expect to win - he was, as someone said earlier aiming for players getting the process right. They did, but in very small patches. The rest of the time they were struggling.

I don't think this is a loser's mentality now - in two years maybe, because we should have improved and the coach should have developed the team by then. Right now, every game is a learning experience that might result in a win, but more than likely won't.

These are very early days for this coach. He is, what, 13 games into knowing this team. He has dealt with injuries that have probably ruined Development Plans A and B for the season and put him much further back than he hoped. I think he has already made some decisions and some players will move on at season's end. Leppa is, I hope, playing the long game - which means short term pain and some weeks that won't end well. It will be a bumpy ride but if you have the stomach for lasting the distance, an ultimately satisfying one.