Leppa's third year.

[dlanod]

There's a champion data table which forms a ladder based on who we've played and we're last.

I'm not saying we're any good. I just don't think the Suns result, while undoubtedly shit, should be weighted higher than other results.

 

[jackess]

I'm not saying we're any good. I just don't think the Suns result, while undoubtedly shit, should be weighted higher than other results.

I think it's a good measure of how awful we have played this season.

 

[Slax]

When are we ever going to have our best midfield playing though?

We really aren't that far off it, Rockliff is still 2 weeks away, Hanley shouldn't play this week and needs another run before he gets into form, so either by the Melbourne or St Kilda game we will be close to it. Definitely close enough for no excuses.

 

[Schache It Off]

We will be given a MUCH easier draw next year if that helps but I am more interested in seeing how we play from the Melbourne game onwards as we should realistically gain Rockliff, Merrett, Freeman, Martin etc back from injury/susp - A stronger team than round 1 IMO

Hoping to see one of my favourite players - Sam Mayes return back to the team!

 

[jackess]

We will be given a MUCH easier draw next year if that helps but I am more interested in seeing how we play from the Melbourne game onwards as we should realistically gain Rockliff, Merrett, Freeman, Martin etc back from injury/susp - A stronger team than round 1 IMO

Hoping to see one of my favourite players - Sam Mayes return back to the team!

We've had an extremely easy draw this year.

 

[Schache It Off]

We've had an extremely easy draw this year.

It will be easier next year.

 

[Eons]

It will be easier next year.

If we play ourselves every week we're a massive chance of making top 4.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I really don't want to see us changing coaches again but barring a drastic improvement next season Leppa will be in trouble. Everything depends on if we can land a key forward and if we stay relatively injury free. You can understand why we've been a train wreck this season due to the massive injury toll.

 

[lukiuslion]

Also - another point to raise. Has Leppa again, fallen into the 'taking on too much' as a young and inexperienced coach? I still see only him, DD and that younger Stats guy sitting in the box on game day (as was 100% the case on Saturday from several camera angles), where as any other coach might have 6-8 people around them, often on multiple levels. I heard StKilda have so many Eyes and ears and Ideas getting thrown around in the box on game day, they need a full time mediator so as arguments don't go on for too long during play! Voss was a 'lone figure' in his first few years, and after the review, he had people all around him on game day.

Why have we ignored what we learnt with Voss, why don't we have any senior help around Leppa? It infuriates me, I feel he has adopted and INCREDIBLY shallow and inexperienced coaching staff, and bought in one mate from Richmond (supposed stoppage expert) who hasn't improved or midfield or clearance rate on bit.

I'd love to see Leppa with some more senior help, I re-call seeing Black, GOD, and others int here last year, It is like he has banished them to the bench coz him and "his mate danny" have it covered.

 

[dlanod]

Also - another point to raise. Has Leppa again, fallen into the 'taking on too much' as a young and inexperienced coach? I still see only him, DD and that younger Stats guy sitting in the box on game day (as was 100% the case on Saturday from several camera angles), where as any other coach might have 6-8 people around them, often on multiple levels. I heard StKilda have so many Eyes and ears and Ideas getting thrown around in the box on game day, they need a full time mediator so as arguments don't go on for too long during play! Voss was a 'lone figure' in his first few years, and after the review, he had people all around him on game day.

Why have we ignored what we learnt with Voss, why don't we have any senior help around Leppa? It infuriates me, I feel he has adopted and INCREDIBLY shallow and inexperienced coaching staff, and bought in one mate from Richmond (supposed stoppage expert) who hasn't improved or midfield or clearance rate on bit.

I'd love to see Leppa with some more senior help.

I think the camera angle may be misleading as I recall seeing at least half a dozen people in the box from the shot I saw across multiple windows (IIRC it was after a fast break goal) - a very wide angle shot, as opposed to the close-ups that are usually preferred.

 

[lukiuslion]

I think the camera angle may be misleading as I recall seeing at least half a dozen people in the box from the shot I saw across multiple windows (IIRC it was after a fast break goal) - a very wide angle shot, as opposed to the close-ups that are usually preferred.

Ok sweet, 2 angles both only showed those 3, but that must be the case, I could'nt work it out other wise - I saw from wall to wall (or what looked like that) and I could only see them three sitting there, also happened at another game recently (not Gabba) so I assumed he had banished everyone to the bench.

 

[POBT]

Not really relevant to anything but if I were a senior coach, I'd really limit the amount of white noise in the coaches box. I'd want 3 functions covered off:

1. immediate access to data

2. interpretation of data and turning into tactical decisions

3. liaison with line and specialist coaches, medical staff etc

That could be covered off with 2 or 3 key people.

If you were going to have a bunch of people in the coaches box, I'd want clearly defined communication protocols so that you didn't just get data/information overload.

 

[carnthemlions]

Also - another point to raise. Has Leppa again, fallen into the 'taking on too much' as a young and inexperienced coach? I still see only him, DD and that younger Stats guy sitting in the box on game day (as was 100% the case on Saturday from several camera angles), where as any other coach might have 6-8 people around them, often on multiple levels. I heard StKilda have so many Eyes and ears and Ideas getting thrown around in the box on game day, they need a full time mediator so as arguments don't go on for too long during play! Voss was a 'lone figure' in his first few years, and after the review, he had people all around him on game day.

Why have we ignored what we learnt with Voss, why don't we have any senior help around Leppa? It infuriates me, I feel he has adopted and INCREDIBLY shallow and inexperienced coaching staff, and bought in one mate from Richmond (supposed stoppage expert) who hasn't improved or midfield or clearance rate on bit.

I'd love to see Leppa with some more senior help, I re-call seeing Black, GOD, and others int here last year, It is like he has banished them to the bench coz him and "his mate danny" have it covered.

I remember seeing Port fans complaining about exactly the same thing with Ken Hinkley. As Dlanod said, it probably has more to do with the camera angle.

Not really relevant to anything but if I were a senior coach, I'd really limit the amount of white noise in the coaches box. I'd want 3 functions covered off:

1. immediate access to data

2. interpretation of data and turning into tactical decisions

3. liaison with line and specialist coaches, medical staff etc

That could be covered off with 2 or 3 key people.

If you were going to have a bunch of people in the coaches box, I'd want clearly defined communication protocols so that you didn't just get data/information overload.

Look at Essendon's coaching team- having numerous people with senior coaching experience around hasn't done a lot for Hird.

 

[scoman]

We have no doubt had our excuses under Leppa. Extremely inexperienced across the park, especially in KP roles, horrific injury lists, poor training facilities, go home factor etc....
That being said if we start next year like we have the last couple of years, the torch will certainly be applied.
For me Leppa will need to:
- coach the side to another couple of wins this year as well as a couple of honorable losses to top 8 sides
- get our midfield clicking over the last few weeks, winning clearances and squaring up the contested possession ledger
- along with recruiting staff help convince Dixon he should sign on at the Lions
- oversee a preseason that has us primed to start the season strong and finish the first six games with at least two or three wins (depending on the draw) and a percentage above 85%

Some fairly modest goals but some steps in the right direction. Another winless first six games or so next year on the back of the spoon this year and failure to recruit a mature key forward would send most of us bonkers and I'd imagine our board would be getting itchy.

 

[Viceregal]

Look at Essendon's coaching team- having numerous people with senior coaching experience around hasn't done a lot for Hird.

What has Hird got to do with a discussion about game day coaching?

 

[Toffee Lion]

I personally believe that if we don't show any signs of improvement next year, it's time to move on.

Guys like Rocky, Beams, Rich, Martin etc are not getting younger by any means.

If we do show signs of genuine improvement (I'm not even talking about ladder gains), then I'd offer a 2 year contract and hope that we continue that improvement.

Will be a very interesting year though.

 

[The Golfing Lion]

Possibly more of a numpty question but if the team bus ran over a cliff or something and all of the senior players and most of the coaching staff were taken out ... what would the AFL do?

Re bottom of the ladder - as in bottom four finish or out of the eight or ... ?

I reckon we would get a Priority Pick

 

[AFLQLD]

Removing the coach seems like the easiest fix for poorly performed teams. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't go well, the team spends another few years treading water. I think the board needs to really understand well where the list is at before they move on the coach.

Thompson was seemingly only weeks away from sacking at Geelong when they began to turn the corner. Clarkson wasn't looking particularly destined for a long career before Hawthorn began to develop. Arguably Hardwick might have gone last year if Richmond hadn't had their late season surge. I'm sure there are other examples as well.

Patience with a coach is often critical with young developing teams. When things start to click it can happen quite quickly. Plus sacking a coach can reset everyone for a season or so while they start all over again with the new bloke. Some coaches have a dream run because they arrive at the right time. I reckon Eade thought he was going to GC at the perfect time. Now...not so much.

By all means review Leppa at the end of each season. But there is a big difference between getting a better coach, and just getting a different coach. A smart board will only move when they know they have a better plan with a better coach.

 

[Nuggo]

I guess it is starting with Team Rules during game day. When a player (any player) is in a certain situation and there is a rule in place for that situation then it is to be executed regardless. Tactics can change but Team Rules need to be implemented.

 

[Robbo18!]

Lucky supporters don't pick or sack coaches because most wouldn't last a month, forget about a multi year deal!!

 

[lukiuslion]

When looking at some other examples, most coaches taking over a bottom/ re-build side, start slow - the first 2 years are usually pretty tough especially the first. The concern with leppa, is he isn't going to get that 8 win season that most coaches hope for in their second year.. Even voss achieved in in 2012 which was the second year after the 2009/2010 debacle and start of rebuild - if we look at these guys it's interesting to see -

Damian Hardwick

Year 1 - 6 wins
Year 2 - 8 wins
Year 3 - 10 wins

Brendan McCartney

Year 1 - 5 wins
Year 2 - 8 wins
Year 3 - 7 wins

Micheal Voss (post 2009 spike, 2010 fev collapse)

Year 1 (2011) - 4 wins
Year 2 (2012) - 10 wins
Year 3 (2013) - 8 wins (nearly made finals)

All three of those guys listed inherited 're-build' situations, voss after his first 2 years admittedly, and all had solid 2nd years.

whilst leppa was on track 1st year, which most of us were happy with, hasn't had a good 2nd year, so upon inspection, if he is to go the way of Hardwick (which I think he can) you would think he needs to win at least 8 games In his third year.. any thing under that would be bucking the reality of most other situations.

 

[SizeMatters]

Anyone think our midfield is overrated? Why are we so poor in key areas such as clearances, contested possessions and now even tackles? Most of those stats come from the midfield... I know we haven't had the full strength midfield in but they are now the core (Rich, Redden, Hanley Rockliff and Beams) are into their mid 20s and should really be working together better than they should be. On paper they seem like a great fit especially when you throw in Zorko, Bundy and Robinson, but overall it's just not working. RRR haven't worked for 4 years....

I'll give it to the end of the season with new players and new coaches but it feels like I'll be saying the same thing next year. Leppa comes in with a known defensive mind set from his Richmond days and honestly our mids are still front runners.

 

[Kevvo]

When looking at some other examples, most coaches taking over a bottom/ re-build side, start slow - the first 2 years are usually pretty tough especially the first. The concern with leppa, is he isn't going to get that 8 win season that most coaches hope for in their second year.. Even voss achieved in in 2012 which was the second year after the 2009/2010 debacle and start of rebuild - if we look at these guys it's interesting to see -

Damian Hardwick

Year 1 - 6 wins
Year 2 - 8 wins
Year 3 - 10 wins

Brendan McCartney

Year 1 - 5 wins
Year 2 - 8 wins
Year 3 - 7 wins

Micheal Voss (post 2009 spike, 2010 fev collapse)

Year 1 (2011) - 4 wins
Year 2 (2012) - 10 wins
Year 3 (2013) - 8 wins (nearly made finals)

All three of those guys listed inherited 're-build' situations, voss after his first 2 years admittedly, and all had solid 2nd years.

whilst leppa was on track 1st year, which most of us were happy with, hasn't had a good 2nd year, so upon inspection, if he is to go the way of Hardwick (which I think he can) you would think he needs to win at least 8 games In his third year.. any thing under that would be bucking the reality of most other situations.

Bear in mind that Voss and McCartney's numbers would have been inflated somewhat by very young expansion sides and Neeld era Dees.

 

[Kevvo]

Anyone think our midfield is overrated? Why are we so poor in key areas such as clearances, contested possessions and now even tackles? Most of those stats come from the midfield... I know we haven't had the full strength midfield in but they are now the core (Rich, Redden, Hanley Rockliff and Beams) are into their mid 20s and should really be working together better than they should be. On paper they seem like a great fit especially when you throw in Zorko, Bundy and Robinson, but overall it's just not working. RRR haven't worked for 4 years....

I'll give it to the end of the season with new players and new coaches but it feels like I'll be saying the same thing next year. Leppa comes in with a known defensive mind set from his Richmond days and honestly our mids are still front runners.

I wouldn't say overrated so much, but I agree it'd be good to perform better at clearances more often. I don't recall seeing a mid-specific breakdown of contested possesions, but I'd expect our team numbers have been hurt by the kids playing around the rest of the park more than the mids.

I think that this year is a hard one to judge given the inconsistent midfield mix due to injury and a new stoppage coach and system from Danny Daly. I'd be fairly confident of seeing some improvement in the later part of the year and next year. That said, results do have to come sometime and eventually you need to draw a line.

 

[jackess]

Our midfield individually is strong but don't work together

A graders: Beams, Rockliff, Hanley, Martin
B: Rich, Redden, Christensen, Zorko
C: Robinson, Robertson, Aish, Taylor, Mayes
D: Lester, ZoB, Bewick