Leppa's third year.

[MacMum]

I'm not all that happy with the coaching either, but until Leppa has a fully fit team playing week in and week out, will I judge him yay or nay..

..until then, like others I will be confused and baffled as to exactly what our problems are...be they gameplan, fitness or something else.

In the mean time, he gets the benefit of the doubt and my support.

..but I still believe Voss would've had us further along. Just my opinion though.

 

[jackess]

I'm not all that happy with the coaching either, but until Leppa has a fully fit team playing week in and week out, will I judge him yay or nay..

..until then, like others I will be confused and baffled as to exactly what our problems are...be they gameplan, fitness or something else.

In the mean time, he gets the benefit of the doubt and my support.

..but I still believe Voss would've had us further along. Just my opinion though.

When is he ever gonna have a fully fit team?

 

[WA Lion]

When is he ever gonna have a fully fit team?

I see what you are saying and it is true that every team will have injuries, but at one stage our injury list was 20 players long! That is a bit worse than the odd injury!

 

[jackess]

I see what you are saying and it is true that every team will have injuries, but at one stage our injury list was 20 players long! That is a bit worse than the odd injury!

Before the bye it was shocking and a valid excuse but more recently we've only been missing 3-5 of our best 22 and that's pretty normal but we've still been playing shocking footy.

 

[WA Lion]

Before the bye it was shocking and a valid excuse but more recently we've only been missing 3-5 of our best 22 and that's pretty normal but we've still been playing shocking footy.

No doubt, from the Melb game up to but not including last night we have been largely awful, but to be honest I think our confidence is absolutely shot from what happened earlier in the year and that largely reflects in our performances atm.

Also, while what you say about 3-5 first teamers would probably be accurate for the last few weeks, I don't think you can emphasise just how much the current lack of competition for spots is hurting us. Even if many of the injuries are to likely 2nd teamers, they would at least be keeping the senior players on their toes. Right now we have got several players out of form and deserving of a spell but no one to replace them with

 

[James North]

Before the bye it was shocking and a valid excuse but more recently we've only been missing 3-5 of our best 22 and that's pretty normal but we've still been playing shocking footy.

Continuity.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

What is making us look worse is that the Dogs, Melbourne and St Kilda have advanced this year while we have stagnated and arguably gone backwards. But a better run with injuries in a fresh season and a few new recruits can work wonders.

 

[Skoob]

Before the bye it was shocking and a valid excuse but more recently we've only been missing 3-5 of our best 22 and that's pretty normal but we've still been playing shocking footy.

Not sure 5 "best 22" out injured is common, but even if it were, we are sadly lacking in depth (even with few injuries)and a handful of second stringers out too.
There are probably 8, currently on our injury list that would be vying for "best 22", not 3-5.

 

[POBT]

Before the bye it was shocking and a valid excuse but more recently we've only been missing 3-5 of our best 22 and that's pretty normal but we've still been playing shocking footy.

That's overly simplistic for many reasons. You know that.

 

[lukiuslion]

The injuries have been bad, the worst I can remember for and AFL team. But the concerns over almost every facet of our teams development still needs to be questioned. Neither side of this debate can escape the others truth.

Mac mum summed it up perfectly, we should be concerned about the state of our team, but let's wait and see what leppa can produce in
Year 3. And the arguments over 'excuses' and whether they are valid or not, will be a very different discussion in 2016 - as frustrating as it is now, I'm very interested to see how it pans out.

Personally I can't see it 'clicking' in 2016, injuries or not, and that's not just being negative, our football is so far off ATM - I just can't see it. But - I'm desperate to be proven wrong because I love justin and this playing group.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I couldn't think of anything worse than us needing to find another new coach. It would be another step back. I am hoping that Leppa can find a way to turn it all around for us next season.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Gubby Allen brought in Fev and it is a long bow to draw to say it set us back a generation. At that stage we had a lot of experienced leaders in our side including Black and Brown and I am sure they were more than capable of dealing with the short term negative influence that was Fevola. We did fall down the ladder after that which con-incided with the stripping of resources out of the football department and the off field issues. The club gave Voss a bit too much control too early and did not put the quality around him that they should have. Voss though was starting to work through it and the two years before he finished we had won 10 games each year. Voss I think struggled with the man management side of things which as a capt I would have said was his strength. I did like what he was trying to do game plan wise although we didn't have the cattle to play it consistently.

So I wild adopt a consistent approach and whilst I do not give Voss the main blame for recruiting Fev I am not giving Leppa the credit for recruiting Beams, Christensen and Robinson. I think a lot of credit for getting those guys goes to Swan and the power of the almighty dollar. I do think Christensen was played entirely too early and his lack of fitness has let us down at times. The weakness of our midfield has been its defensive running and I will note that that is also the weakness of both Beams and Christensen and that this year our defensive running through the midfield has been terrible and the recruiting of those two is very evident in that regard.

Leppa comes from a defensive coaching background and we have been terrible in this regard. Our forward line has been decimated but defensively it is about structure and desire and we have been appalling. There is not sign that this group knows what they are supposed to do nor that what they have been instructed to do is remotely effective.

Aish and Taylor had a good first year and went backwards this year with more exposure to Leppa's system. There are a couple you can say have made somewhat marginal improvement under Leppa but the vast majority have gone backwards. Injuries or note you expect individual improvement and we have seen the opposite.

I supported the decision to make Rocky capt but that might have been too soon as well. Whatever way you look at it it has not been a positive for Leppa.

We are note where Voss left us. We have regressed and are starting from scratch because that is where Leppa and his team have lead us. Leppa did not guarantee wins this year but did guarantee that we would be more competitive. That has not happened and I think he ends to be held accountable.

I disagree with most of this. It's not that black and white.

Leppa is not to blame for the huge injury toll that has decimated the team this year. This has had the bigger influence.

Our younger players haven't gone backwards rather haven't had enough fit senior players around them providing drive and protection.

It was no coincidence that Taylor looked much better against Gold Suns and kicked 3 goals with Hanley, Martin, Zorko firing around him.

How could we possibly be a strong defensive team with our best tackler out for lots of the season.... With our most important player out for most of the season(Hanley).... With ALL of our talls out for most of the season... With our main key defensive player out for large amounts of the season.

Any plans Leppa had for the team structure flew out the window. He has been behind the eight ball every game with large ins and outs.

We must as a club stand by him for next year.
If we can have a strong off season, and reduce our injury toll.... Then.... And only then can we properly assess his performance.

I just don't think we'd be in a better position with anyone else.

 

[jackess]

Not sure 5 "best 22" out injured is common, but even if it were, we are sadly lacking in depth (even with few injuries)and a handful of second stringers out too.
There are probably 8, currently on our injury list that would be vying for "best 22", not 3-5.

I'd say 8 vying for 4 or 5 spots maybe.

 

[Skoob]

I'd say 8 vying for 4 or 5 spots maybe.

Still, that'd be 4-5 best 22 and 3-4 next best.

 

[lukiuslion]

A major factor that is rarely, if ever, discussed is the fact it's our first year without browny.

That guy is a giant, superstar and set the entire tone for the football club. I think there are guys who may not have known just how much taller they walked, and how much confidence they got from browny.

It was discussed a lot in the lead up to his retirement, wondering "what will we do with out him?" - but as we played well without him
To finish the season, I think the impact got overlooked a bit.

Not just talking about needing to replace him as a key forward, that's obvious, but more just generally having him on the ground and the sort of respect that gives you as a team and the purpose and confidence that gives young players.

"I play with browny"

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I disagree with most of this. It's not that black and white.

Leppa is not to blame for the huge injury toll that has decimated the team this year. This has had the bigger influence.

Our younger players haven't gone backwards rather haven't had enough fit senior players around them providing drive and protection.

It was no coincidence that Taylor looked much better against Gold Suns and kicked 3 goals with Hanley, Martin, Zorko firing around him.

How could we possibly be a strong defensive team with our best tackler out for lots of the season.... With our most important player out for most of the season(Hanley).... With ALL of our talls out for most of the season... With our main key defensive player out for large amounts of the season.

Any plans Leppa had for the team structure flew out the window. He has been behind the eight ball every game with large ins and outs.

We must as a club stand by him for next year.
If we can have a strong off season, and reduce our injury toll.... Then.... And only then can we properly assess his performance.

I just don't think we'd be in a better position with anyone else.

Brizzy I reckon you have hit the nail on the head with our injury toll and how much it has hampered the different positions, but.
I still look at the way we move the ball and over use it.
It looks like it is coached , and when you see players like Rocky and Rich give short hand balls or short dicky kicks instead of an attacking move , you have to question whether Leppa is got us doing the right things.
Rich started to use his boot last night , probably after the second quarter, but it was obvious that once he went longer, ah light bulb moment ah we are better.
Ist half of the game he was trying to give 20m kicks, only to go to someones feet or a handball .
He later had a shot on goal 60m kick ,made the distance with ease, so seems to have that power there.
So why do we over handball, over posses the footy.
At one stage we handballed it accross halfback 4 times and Rocky got the pill on the 3rd in the clear and he bloody handballed it across to Clark .
He had the chance to straighten us up but chose to handball it to Clarke, why ? Clarke struggles to make a quick decision, and we lost the footy.
This is why I question Leppa , because we are talking about senior players like Rocky.
It seams like we are handing the ball on too quickly and not making the possession count.
I mean if you receive the ball and you are in the clear why handball it to the guy next to you, no confidence at all .
We should be looking for a kick .
Over possession with this over handballing is the way we have been playing every week and we kill ourselves every week , lets remember Leppa has been here almost 2 seasons so you would expect the players to have the structure to execute a method of attack.

Nothing to do with injuries , it is our running patterns, running angles , I fail to see these things .
When you see most teams are able to clear with an unrushed kick after say 3 handballs and we choose to continue with another handball it is no wonder that the play eventually breaks down quite a bit. handball it once , twice three four times loose ball.

To be honest I thought last night was better , at least it was entertaining and a close match.

The question is definitely there , is our capitulation this year all about the injuries causing a lack of confidence resulting in the senior players making poor decisions or is it our game plan, running patterns etc.
Bit of both you could say but by the end of this season if we dont get a spike in performance , it doesn't look all that positive.
Hoping for that spike by the way.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

When you have no one to kick to up forward who can at least create a contest, you tend to overuse it and handball before finding a legit open target

 

[lukiuslion]

Brizzy I reckon you have hit the nail on the head with our injury toll and how much it has hampered the different positions, but.
I still look at the way we move the ball and over use it.
It looks like it is coached , and when you see players like Rocky and Rich give short hand balls or short dicky kicks instead of an attacking move , you have to question whether Leppa is got us doing the right things.
Rich started to use his boot last night , probably after the second quarter, but it was obvious that once he went longer, ah light bulb moment ah we are better.
Ist half of the game he was trying to give 20m kicks, only to go to someones feet or a handball .
He later had a shot on goal 60m kick ,made the distance with ease, so seems to have that power there.
So why do we over handball, over posses the footy.
At one stage we handballed it accross halfback 4 times and Rocky got the pill on the 3rd in the clear and he bloody handballed it across to Clark .
He had the chance to straighten us up but chose to handball it to Clarke, why ? Clarke struggles to make a quick decision, and we lost the footy.
This is why I question Leppa , because we are talking about senior players like Rocky.
It seams like we are handing the ball on too quickly and not making the possession count.
I mean if you receive the ball and you are in the clear why handball it to the guy next to you, no confidence at all .
We should be looking for a kick .
Over possession with this over handballing is the way we have been playing every week and we kill ourselves every week , lets remember Leppa has been here almost 2 seasons so you would expect the players to have the structure to execute a method of attack.

Nothing to do with injuries , it is our running patterns, running angles , I fail to see these things .
When you see most teams are able to clear with an unrushed kick after say 3 handballs and we choose to continue with another handball it is no wonder that the play eventually breaks down quite a bit. handball it once , twice three four times loose ball.

To be honest I thought last night was better , at least it was entertaining and a close match.

The question is definitely there , is our capitulation this year all about the injuries causing a lack of confidence resulting in the senior players making poor decisions or is it our game plan, running patterns etc.
Bit of both you could say but by the end of this season if we dont get a spike in performance , it doesn't look all that positive.
Hoping for that spike by the way.

Leppa clearly changes the way he wants up to play week to week depending on opposition. IMO - Last night he told them to attack and go up the middle, at one point lynch said "the lions are just looking to attack through the middle, they need to set up" - we hadn't done that for weeks. Of coarse it is because of weaker opposition, but you saw when we attacked, the ease at which they scored once they got the ball back - imagine if we played like that against a top 4 team? It would be 100 points at half team. The chopping it around Gabe leaves us set up defensively, but at this stage that careful, accurate game is not something we can play. That's why we scored 100 points, pity they scored a lot more.

 

[jackess]

When you have no one to kick to up forward who can at least create a contest, you tend to overuse it and handball before finding a legit open target

I don't completely agree with this. We've had McStay, Freeman, Leuenberger, McGuane, Staker and others to kick to. Even if they don't mark we should be able to set up with crumbers to get a shot on goal or at least lock it in.

Earlier in the year we were trying to set up a pagans paddock style when rebounding off half back but that seemed to go away for some reason.

 

[lukiuslion]

Leppa clearly changes the way he wants up to play week to week depending on opposition. Last night he told them to attack and go up the middle, at one point lunch said "the lions are just looking to attack through the middle, they need to set up" - we hadn't done that for weeks. Of coarse it is because of weaker opposition, but you saw when we attacked, the ease at which they scored once they got the ball back - imagine if we played like that against a top 4 team? It would be 100 points at half team. The chopping it around Gabe leaves us set up defensively, but at this stage that careful, accurate game is not something we can play. That's why we scored 100 points, pity they scored a lot more.

Before everyone jumps on me about changing depending on opposition, it is more "we can win this by attacking this team, so attack" - or "we can't match these guys so maintain possession as much as you can, keep your defensive structures"

 

[MacMum]

A major factor that is rarely, if ever, discussed is the fact it's our first year without browny.

That guy is a giant, superstar and set the entire tone for the football club. I think there are guys who may not have known just how much taller they walked, and how much confidence they got from browny.

It was discussed a lot in the lead up to his retirement, wondering "what will we do with out him?" - but as we played well without him
To finish the season, I think the impact got overlooked a bit.

Not just talking about needing to replace him as a key forward, that's obvious, but more just generally having him on the ground and the sort of respect that gives you as a team and the purpose and confidence that gives young players.

"I play with browny"

Certainly a factor I hadn't given thought too........On or off the field he was a massive influence around the club. When not playing, he was there to gee them up with enthusiasm and confidence..

Definitely would be missed in so many ways....ways some of the boys may not even realize.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

When you have no one to kick to up forward who can at least create a contest, you tend to overuse it and handball before finding a legit open target

Hey totally agree All sorts that does help, and we looked better last night with Mcguane presenting , but I have noticed we look to handball it first before we even look for a kick on too many occasions, not so sure it is a result of the lack of options if you dont even look that far.

 

[lukiuslion]

Certainly a factor I hadn't given thought too........On or off the field he was a massive influence around the club. When not playing, he was there to gee them up with enthusiasm and confidence..

Definitely would be missed in so many ways....ways some of the boys may not even realize.

Yeah I think when you were drafted you would have thought first and foremost about "playing with browny" - it was his club. He gave us his swagger, he told opposition before the bounce "us young lions are gunner smash you blokes", he just completely and utterly set the tone. He drew massive respect, opposition had no choice but to respect our team when he was on the ground, that breeds incidence. then this year we step out and all of a sudden, amougst all our other issues, he isn't there. It would have a huge impact on confidence and would take the team a while to readjust and find it's character again.

 

[luthor]

It's not the handballs or the number of them per se that upset me.

What riles me is when player A rifles a handball to player B who is standing/running beside him only a half a meter away. What's with all these"rocket" handballs when a nice precise gentle one would do just fine???.

Is it just over excitement with the moment or is it part of some master "game plan" ?

Whatever it is, it nearly always results in a dropped pill/turnover.

In our current form, we all know how that usually turns out.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Leppa has us chipping and hand balling more because we have no targets in the forward line.... They're all injured remember!!

When we kick it longer we usually lose out as we have very rarely had Ariel supremacy.
I think Leppa is hitting home to the boys to lower the eyes had make sure we retain possession.

It just goes bad when you have no continuity in the team