Moved Thread Lethal or Ablett sr

[Piggy2008]

Lethal belts Geelong players, Ablett sr belts Hawthorn players, but which one would you want in a team

 

[GWT6]

Two of the poorest character individuals to have played the game.

 

[NicW]

Two of the poorest character individuals to have played the game.

Well at least their clubs have won a flag since 1964

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Probably squeeze either of them in tbh

 

[mike ross]

Could possibly squeeze em both on the bench

 

[NicW]

Probably squeeze either of them in tbh

I think you mean both.

 

[Dinsdale]

Lethal because he never caused anyones death... although he came close with that poor point post (and Bruns).

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Typical BigFooty thread so far...character snipes, club belittling and sarcasm without one response actually discussing the thread topic.

As for my own response - it's a difficult comparison given they are different types of players from different eras but I would give the nod to Lethal.

My rationale is as follows:

• Lethal played in a better side yet won the Best and Fairest 8 times to Ablett's 1
• Lethal was predominantly a midfielder and still kicked 915 goals whilst Ablett was predominantly a forward but ended up only about 100 goals ahead
• Lethal's 1977 season is in my opinion the greatest season by an individual of all time. He had 658 disposals (6 shy of the all time record at that point) and kicked 91 goals from the midfield! His last 8 games he averaged 30 disposals (unheard of at the time) and over 5 goals! (Interestingly, I have Ablett's 1993 season in the mix for the 2nd greatest individual season of all time).
• I hate comparing team success when comparing individual players but Ablett was well known to not be much of a team guy (famously not knowing teammates names, etc) whilst Lethal was very team oriented and a premiership captain. Both teams were highly talented but Lethal's teams came away with 4 flags and Ablett's none. Could their different approaches, as the best player on their respective teams, have influenced that?

Not a lot to go on really but it is otherwise so hard to compare as Brownlow votes favour mids (Lethal well ahead) and MVP's, AA's (in their current format), Norm Smith's, etc just didn't exist in Lethal's day.

In fact the MVP was introduced in Lethal's twilight and he won the inaugural award in what was probably his 5th or 6th best season. Had it existed prior, I have no doubt he would have won it at least 5 times. He also remains the 8th highest Brownlow vote getter of all time (202 votes) and 1 of only 2 players in the top 14 to have played prior to the year 2000 (as votes have skyrocketed in recent years). This is made more impressive by the fact that he was famously overlooked so many times as he was not an umpire favourite due to his big mouth and his tendency to cross the line in terms of physicality.

 

[PhatBoy]

It must be nice living in the ivory towers that most of the big footy populace seem to have bought in the most recent real estate boom.

maybe if Matthews or Ablett just bribed a teenage girl to have an abortion or something they could live up to the lofty standards required for these days.

but I digress.

I never watched Matthews play - Ablett is the best footballer I’ve seen.
on what they actually did maybe I’d pick Matthews, seems like he starred in every portion of the ground he covered.

ablett looks like he could have gone to any part of the field and maybe been even better, but that’s speculation so we can only assess him on what he actually did do which was more specialised to one area of the field and the game, albeit in two distinctly different roles.
Maybe if I was putting together a team Matthews would be the first player I’d pick, but if I already had one and needed something to turn it from ok to great, I’d pick Ablett

 

[Papa G]

Carey. For football ability and Bad Bloke rating.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Ablett was way more talented (than anyone else I've ever seen)

But every week, leadingto team forward it has to be Lethal.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think I’d take Ablett. He’s the only footballer I’ve seen who could literally do it all. Super quick, supreme skills, vice hands, strong as a bull, could leap over a building, kick 60m bombs… you name it, he was close to a 10/10 in every area. True freak.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

It must be nice living in the ivory towers that most of the big footy populace seem to have bought in the most recent real estate boom.

maybe if Matthews or Ablett just bribed a teenage girl to have an abortion or something they could live up to the lofty standards required for these days.

but I digress.

I never watched Matthews play - Ablett is the best footballer I’ve seen.
on what they actually did maybe I’d pick Matthews, seems like he starred in every portion of the ground he covered.

ablett looks like he could have gone to any part of the field and maybe been even better, but that’s speculation so we can only assess him on what he actually did do which was more specialised to one area of the field and the game, albeit in two distinctly different roles.
Maybe if I was putting together a team Matthews would be the first player I’d pick, but if I already had one and needed something to turn it from ok to great, I’d pick Ablett

I think your last sentence is a good way of looking at it and regardless, if you had every player ever to choose from, Lethal and Ablett are both getting picked in the first few selections.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Will just leave this here. Says something that they only gave him 9 votes - not even a big game by Barney's standards.

 

[PhatBoy]

Will just leave this here. Says something that they only gave him 9 votes - not even a big game by Barney's standards.

View attachment 1184374

Don’t really see what argument it wins when Ablett had games like 31 touches 14.2

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Don’t really see what argument it wins when Ablett had games like 31 touches 14.2

Just hard to fathom those unbelievable numbers isn't it - just crazy.

I think Matthews game stands out a tiny bit more to me. 48 touches in that era was a more significant anomaly and no one got that many again after Matthews game until Greg Williams nearly two decades later in the best game of his career.

To add 9 marks and 11 goals 3 to those 48 touches makes it completely unprecedented. No one has had a combinaton close to that.

Ablett's 30 and 14 is still freak status of course, but 14+ goals was kicked 6 more times over the next few years after he did that.

Ahh, who am I kidding? I'm arguing semantics - both those games are just ridiculously good.

 

[Jezzaubeautym8]

Ablett was the better player and wouldn't get suspended for 80% of his playing career in the modern era

 

[Piggy2008]

Never saw either play so I have to take the guy with 116 less goals but 4 premierships

at least im not the only one that hasn't seen both their careers

 

[WN123]

Saw both. Matthews is one of the best players I have seen but Ablett number 1. He was a freak.

 

[Power Raid]

too hard to call

as a spectator I'd select ablett

as a coach I'd be selecting lethal

 

[Trav 20]

Matthews every day.

 

[Jezzaubeautym8]

Matthews every day.

Ablett was mercurial while Matthews was "tough".

Calling Leigh Matthews mercurial doesn't sound right to me (even though he was extremely good).

 

[Trav 20]

Ablett was mercurial while Matthews was "tough".

Calling Leigh Matthews mercurial doesn't sound right to me (even though he was extremely good).

Matthews is rated the best player of all time by most footy pundits for a reason. He was the toughest goal-kicking midfielder ever. He kicked 91 goals from the midfield one year (rotating with the second rover to a forward pocket). Week in week out he was the reason Hawthorn would win games of football. He was incredibly consistent.

Ablett could do things Matthews couldn't. But that's not the sum of all parts in Aussie Rules. As good as he was Ablett's not in the best 5 players I've seen, or would want running out for a ''do or die'' grand final. Matthews would be first picked.

 

[Jezzaubeautym8]

Matthews is rated the best player of all time by most footy pundits for a reason. He was the toughest goal-kicking midfielder ever. He kicked 91 goals from the midfield one year (rotating with the second rover to a forward pocket). Week in week out he was the reason Hawthorn would win games of football. He was incredibly consistent.

Ablett could do things Matthews couldn't. But that's not the sum of all parts in Aussie Rules. As good as he was Ablett's not in the best 5 players I've seen, or would want running out for a ''do or die'' grand final. Matthews would be first picked.

Disagree completely but I need to point out Ablett kicked 9 goals in a Grand Final no way would I have Matthews picked before him. Did you come to that conclusion because Ablett played in 4 losing Grand Finals? It could be argued Ablett is the greatest Grand Final player of all time.

If you want to use that kind've gray logic Lethal got smashed in his last game (a Grand Final) and the opposition doubled the score. Therefore that must mean he's the last player to pick for Grand Finals.

 

[MinerBoy]

Ablett was the better player and wouldn't get suspended for 80% of his playing career in the modern era

Haha you never saw him play did you?