List Mgmt. Lets Be Aggressive

[SplintWhisky]

That's all well and good but none of those stats you've thrown up mean that he's worth anything. Clubs don't recruit players simply based on their height, weight, and time in the system (well... we may have recruited Hampson for these reasons) - they also need to have shown some sort of ability. You're kidding yourself if you think we're going to get a better pick than we originally spent on a player who has completely failed to come on at all.

I think though in this case they may be willing to do it with larger forward types. What it seems to have happened with Griff is that we have been developing his body so he isnt monstered but now it looks like he does not like what is happening with where he is going to be played. IMHO i think he may have seen the writing on the wall with Mcbean having the JR like games in the VFL and dominating a few of them Ala 2007-08

 

[TheProwler]

If you look at the depth chart I put up, Griffiths sits 3rd/4th in line for that KPF spot in our side, he also sits 4th/5th in our ruck options. At a rebuilding club like the ones that I mentioned he would be 1st/2nd on their lists given most of those clubs don't have a ready to go option currently on their lists. That is what we'd be hoping creates the bidding war for him. It's not like you're trading a dime a dozen run of the mill midfielder/flanker, you're trading out a KPF/ruck and when you look at what they are worth to teams an early second rounder is around the mark

When you say 3rd/4th tall you actually mean he is the first fwd to come in should Jack or Vickery be un available? What sort of salary would we be paying him at present, I would think about $200k. Hardly breaking the bank now is he for our first backup fwd who can also ruck. His potential far exceeds the cost of retaining him and the flexible options he provides.

Now if we were to find a club that would offer us a pick in the mid 20's then who becomes that first option if we need a second forward/ruck to come in, Hampson (dear god)......... Elton........bean........who else?

Maybe we could draft another KPF with the pick we get eh

 

[RobsJourney]

I wouldnt be putting Grimes or batchelor out their for trade as i think both wiill develop into good backs especially Grimes

Especially Batchelor, I reckon.
Alongside Rance and another decent tall defender (I can't rate Chaplin at present he has pissed me off this year), Batchelor's chop off marks from a good ability to read the play, as well as his left foot, hold him in our best 22 and I reckon when we are a good side he will be great for us. Harshly done by imo.

 

[Mr Magic]

I am ready to make a call on some right now!

King - retire

A Edwards - delist

O'Hanlon - delist

Helbg - delist

Newman - retire

Think trading Rance to West Coast for their top pick might be an idea if we can pick up Jaksch or even Frawley on the cheap.

Don't think we should get overly excited trading for any odd pick in 2014 because I am not sure 2014 draft is overly strong/deep!

 

[Mr Magic]

When you say 3rd/4th tall you actually mean he is the first fwd to come in should Jack or Vickery be un available? What sort of salary would we be paying him at present, I would think about $200k. Hardly breaking the bank now is he for our first backup fwd who can also ruck. His potential far exceeds the cost of retaining him and the flexible options he provides.

Now if we were to find a club that would offer us a pick in the mid 20's then who becomes that first option if we need a second forward/ruck to come in, Hampson (dear god)......... Elton........bean........who else?

Maybe we could draft another KPF with the pick we get eh

Yeah we will also need someone who can help in defense and Ruck like Griff to

 

[partycorolla]

I am ready to make a call on some right now!

King - retire

A Edwards - delist

O'Hanlon - delist

Helbg - delist

Newman - retire

Think trading Rance to West Coast for their top pick might be an idea if we can pick up Jaksch or even Frawley on the cheap.

Don't think we should get overly excited trading for any odd pick in 2014 because I am not sure 2014 draft is overly strong/deep!

No trade Rance... bad call by you Caro.... He's just coming in to his prime and you do not trade the best one-on-one defender in the comp.... He'd be getting paid half what Frawley wants and is playing better and is younger.... so that's a no-no.

We could add Jaksch and then he'd be there to take over from Chaplin .... but trade someone other than Rance....

 

[Mr Magic]

No trade Rance... bad call by you Caro.... He's just coming in to his prime and you do not trade the best one-on-one defender in the comp.... He'd be getting paid half what Frawley wants and is playing better and is younger.... so that's a no-no.

We could add Jaksch and then he'd be there to take over from Chaplin .... but trade someone other than Rance....

I am not saying we should trade Rance but given West Coast would be desperate for him it is an option if we can get a replacement over the next 3 years which is not impossible get a good pick and free up cash temporarily. It is not like we would be replacing Buddy! or Ablett Jnr! I agree Chaplin, after his contract expires needs to be replaced more urgently!


if Frawley is requesting money wise what you are suggesting forget it. You wouldn't trade for Frawley. The only gain is no compo to give via FA but if he was asking 700K+ or near that range forget it.

Were do you get Caro from??

 

[partycorolla]

I am not saying we should trade Rance but given West Coast would be desperate for him it is an option if we can get a replacement over the next 3 years which is not impossible get a good pick and free up cash temporarily. It is not like we would be replacing Buddy! or Ablett Jnr! I agree Chaplin, after his contract expires needs to be replaced more urgently!


if Frawley is requesting money wise what you are suggesting forget it. You wouldn't trade for Frawley. The only gain is no compo to give via FA but if he was 700K+ forget it.

Were do you get Caro from??

Caro comes up with crazy ideas sometimes! I thought that idea was crazy given the money, age and form of those involved.... Not Jaksch though, we should go after him!

 

[_RT_]

When you say 3rd/4th tall you actually mean he is the first fwd to come in should Jack or Vickery be un available? What sort of salary would we be paying him at present, I would think about $200k. Hardly breaking the bank now is he for our first backup fwd who can also ruck. His potential far exceeds the cost of retaining him and the flexible options he provides.

Now if we were to find a club that would offer us a pick in the mid 20's then who becomes that first option if we need a second forward/ruck to come in, Hampson (dear god)......... Elton........bean........who else?

Maybe we could draft another KPF with the pick we get eh

To be honest I don't want Griffiths to go, much prefer he stays but all the talk is that despite being offered a 2 year deal 4-6 weeks back he still hasn't signed and doesn't look like doing so, that suggests to me that he is either exploring what might be out there or has something concrete from another club and is ready to go. If that is the case then we'd be in our right to ask for a second round pick for him, regardless of what he is delivering. It's the potential we are dealing with here.

At our club he is, as mentioned, down the list for a spot in the 22 when everyone is up and running and given he has already been at the club for 5 years and it doesn't look like the outlook will change anytime soon, he'd be well within his rights to go and look at the chance of becoming the number 1 guy at another club and for better money. We'd all do the same in the same situation. As for the player who steps up if we need a replacement for a KPF or ruck, Hampson is a good ruckman and up forward can at least provide a contest. Elton is 2 year younger than Griffiths and was rated as a possible top pick heading into his draft ending up going at pick 26(?). McBean is another option we have as well so we're not exactly light on for replacement options if injury hits.

The question is what happens if we do keep Griffiths for another 2 years, he becomes a 7 year player who hasn't delivered and we delist him for nothing. Right now there is an opportunity for us to trade him for something of decent value given the way clubs that are rebuilding are crying out for KPF talent. So if as I said above Griffiths does want out then trade him for something decent and move on.

 

[Mr Magic]

To be honest I don't want Griffiths to go, much prefer he stays but all the talk is that despite being offered a 2 year deal 4-6 weeks back he still hasn't signed and doesn't look like doing so, that suggests to me that he is either exploring what might be out there or has something concrete from another club and is ready to go. If that is the case then we'd be in our right to ask for a second round pick for him, regardless of what he is delivering. It's the potential we are dealing with here.

At our club he is, as mentioned, down the list for a spot in the 22 when everyone is up and running and given he has already been at the club for 5 years and it doesn't look like the outlook will change anytime soon, he'd be well within his rights to go and look at the chance of becoming the number 1 guy at another club and for better money. We'd all do the same in the same situation. As for the player who steps up if we need a replacement for a KPF or ruck, Hampson is a good ruckman and up forward can at least provide a contest. Elton is 2 year younger than Griffiths and was rated as a possible top pick heading into his draft ending up going at pick 26(?). McBean is another option we have as well so we're not exactly light on for replacement options if injury hits.

The question is what happens if we do keep Griffiths for another 2 years, he becomes a 7 year player who hasn't delivered and we delist him for nothing. Right now there is an opportunity for us to trade him for something of decent value given the way clubs that are rebuilding are crying out for KPF talent. So if as I said above Griffiths does want out then trade him for something decent and move on.

Happy to live with the 7 year bust scenario. Hampson has shown virtually nothing up forward let alone defense but he is okay as a ruck option. Chaplin will leave not to far away as well and Elton and others have not even had a game yet!

In addition TV is far from cementing a forward spot and his little cameo on the weekend, without a great deal of strong marking, was not necessarily a great step forward as a KPF, Ruck/forward maybe, but permanent forward for TV is as distant as ever IMO.

Apart from Griffiths we have no one else who can be effective at half forward with size really IMO.

The biggest blunder has been RFC recruiting ruck hybrid types 200+cm into effective KPP when history says it is rare as hens teeth. For some to single Griffiths out as the fall guy with limited opportunity when showing promise at AFL level at times is absurd IMO!

 

[TheProwler]

To be honest I don't want Griffiths to go, much prefer he stays but all the talk is that despite being offered a 2 year deal 4-6 weeks back he still hasn't signed and doesn't look like doing so, that suggests to me that he is either exploring what might be out there or has something concrete from another club and is ready to go. If that is the case then we'd be in our right to ask for a second round pick for him, regardless of what he is delivering. It's the potential we are dealing with here.

At our club he is, as mentioned, down the list for a spot in the 22 when everyone is up and running and given he has already been at the club for 5 years and it doesn't look like the outlook will change anytime soon, he'd be well within his rights to go and look at the chance of becoming the number 1 guy at another club and for better money. We'd all do the same in the same situation. As for the player who steps up if we need a replacement for a KPF or ruck, Hampson is a good ruckman and up forward can at least provide a contest. Elton is 2 year younger than Griffiths and was rated as a possible top pick heading into his draft ending up going at pick 26(?). McBean is another option we have as well so we're not exactly light on for replacement options if injury hits.

The question is what happens if we do keep Griffiths for another 2 years, he becomes a 7 year player who hasn't delivered and we delist him for nothing. Right now there is an opportunity for us to trade him for something of decent value given the way clubs that are rebuilding are crying out for KPF talent. So if as I said above Griffiths does want out then trade him for something decent and move on.

Sad if true, his best footy is yet to come. Also if he has offers etc to go elsewhere it makes it harder to get a good value trade as he can just walk if we can't get a deal.

 

[_RT_]

Sad if true, his best footy is yet to come. Also if he has offers etc to go elsewhere it makes it harder to get a good value trade as he can just walk if we can't get a deal.

Depends which club he wants to go to and who is where in the order. Lets say Carlton who are desperate for a KPF offer him the best contract, but they are 6th in the order. They would want to offer up a decent deal to get him without having to hope he slides to them in the PSD, as I'd have no doubt that Saints Lions Dogs & perhaps Melbourne would all take him before them if they were getting him for free.

As long as we still have a contract in front of him then I believe we're still a chance of keeping him. It might just be that he needs to understand that it's up to him if he wants to take the chance that is there for him.

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

Depends which club he wants to go to and who is where in the order. Lets say Carlton who are desperate for a KPF offer him the best contract, but they are 6th in the order. They would want to offer up a decent deal to get him without having to hope he slides to them in the PSD, as I'd have no doubt that Saints Lions Dogs & perhaps Melbourne would all take him before them if they were getting him for free.

As long as we still have a contract in front of him then I believe we're still a chance of keeping him. It might just be that he needs to understand that it's up to him if he wants to take the chance that is there for him.

Any club but Carlton. Unless Grigg and Hampson need a third stooge.

 

[TigerImposter]

I am ready to make a call on some right now!

King - retire

A Edwards - delist

O'Hanlon - delist

Helbg - delist

Newman - retire

Think trading Rance to West Coast for their top pick might be an idea if we can pick up Jaksch or even Frawley on the cheap.

Don't think we should get overly excited trading for any odd pick in 2014 because I am not sure 2014 draft is overly strong/deep!

Rance stays he is our best player in terms of a consistent 4Q performer. We've been trying to find a top line defender for 30 yrs and I think it would be foolish toget rid of him as he plays on a minimum of two opponents a week
Once Dave comes back the two will be a force providing Chaplin doesn't get in their way

 

[Tigerbob]

Trade Rance. Lol.

Worse than the suggestion of trading Deledio.

Best defender in the league. Don't give a shit what anyone says.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Especially Batchelor, I reckon.
Alongside Rance and another decent tall defender (I can't rate Chaplin at present he has pissed me off this year), Batchelor's chop off marks from a good ability to read the play, as well as his left foot, hold him in our best 22 and I reckon when we are a good side he will be great for us. Harshly done by imo.

Excellent post

 

[Cotchin 9]

Heard we've thrown big money at Treloar from GWS.

 

[RichoLedio]

Heard we've thrown big money at Treloar from GWS.

Very interesting... credible source?

 

[theflea]

Everybody is tradeable - Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin............everybody.

If we reckon we get more than we give, we do the trade. Now, those 3 guys up there seem 'untouchable' - but what if a Cameron, or Patton, or Fyfe, or Dangerfield or suchlike come on the market? (In the past names like Ablett, Franklin, Judd have moved - Franklin via F/A). If we want one of those types, we have to give something back. We won't have a No 1 or No 2 pick to trade either.

Free agency - well, that's different. If w want a good one - like Goddard - we have to clear salary cap space there - so if we are tight we could trade a high earner (like Deledio) for draft picks (which come with cheap salaries for the first couple of years).

Every player on the list can't be a star - if so, we blow our salary cap. HOWEVER - we are in the situation where we don't have enough top-liners to compete - so we have to find some. That means either in the draft, or via trade (as we did for Miles), or via Rookie.

So we may have to delist some players who may still make it, but are only ever going to be fillers - great if we have 5-6 in the side - they do a particular job - but we have 10-12. So we have to be aggressive at finding top-liners. OK - maybe trade - but even our 'successes' there - Houli, Grigg, Morris, Chaplin - are easily replaceable. We need to draft more kids. We need 3-4 picks in the top 25. (Yes, I know we had 5 in the top 20 in 2004 and f*cked up 4 of them - the principle stands).

I think we need to trade for draft picks - then with the salary cap relief, go after some big F/A targets. Which players will attract high draft picks - our stars, or our very good players. If I could get 2xTop 10 picks for Cotchin, I would take it.

good write up but I refuse to think its a good idea to get rid of known very good players for picks that could yield duds. keep our good players and get good players in imo.

 

[Cotchin 9]

Very interesting... credible source?

Yep.

 

[theflea]

Depends which club he wants to go to and who is where in the order. Lets say Carlton who are desperate for a KPF offer him the best contract, but they are 6th in the order. They would want to offer up a decent deal to get him without having to hope he slides to them in the PSD, as I'd have no doubt that Saints Lions Dogs & perhaps Melbourne would all take him before them if they were getting him for free.

As long as we still have a contract in front of him then I believe we're still a chance of keeping him. It might just be that he needs to understand that it's up to him if he wants to take the chance that is there for him.

Id like to see the marking that Casboult is doing at the minute. BG has more natural talent but geez LC can clunk it.

 

[Mr Magic]

Rance stays he is our best player in terms of a consistent 4Q performer. We've been trying to find a top line defender for 30 yrs and I think it would be foolish toget rid of him as he plays on a minimum of two opponents a week
Once Dave comes back the two will be a force providing Chaplin doesn't get in their way

Actually our best player now is Dusty. He truely is indispensable. You would want nearly two No.1 picks for him now!

 

[TigerImposter]

Actually our best player now is Dusty. He truely is indispensable. You would want nearly two No.1 picks for him now!

Nope disagree
Give me a monster animal defender any time
Scarlett and Rance are leaders as they are fearless
courageous and will never take a backward step
The other guys lift from their efforts
Take Rance out of our side and we drop games to the Dogs and Dees and get smashed by the top teams
Rance = best defender in AFL
Dusty = our best mid

 

[pebblestone]

Should totally look into a cognitive neuropsych!

Already have one of those too.

Maybe a Gypsy fortune teller?

 

[Spanish_Fly]

To be honest I don't want Griffiths to go, much prefer he stays but all the talk is that despite being offered a 2 year deal 4-6 weeks back he still hasn't signed and doesn't look like doing so, that suggests to me that he is either exploring what might be out there or has something concrete from another club and is ready to go. If that is the case then we'd be in our right to ask for a second round pick for him, regardless of what he is delivering. It's the potential we are dealing with here.

At our club he is, as mentioned, down the list for a spot in the 22 when everyone is up and running and given he has already been at the club for 5 years and it doesn't look like the outlook will change anytime soon, he'd be well within his rights to go and look at the chance of becoming the number 1 guy at another club and for better money. We'd all do the same in the same situation. As for the player who steps up if we need a replacement for a KPF or ruck, Hampson is a good ruckman and up forward can at least provide a contest. Elton is 2 year younger than Griffiths and was rated as a possible top pick heading into his draft ending up going at pick 26(?). McBean is another option we have as well so we're not exactly light on for replacement options if injury hits.

The question is what happens if we do keep Griffiths for another 2 years, he becomes a 7 year player who hasn't delivered and we delist him for nothing. Right now there is an opportunity for us to trade him for something of decent value given the way clubs that are rebuilding are crying out for KPF talent. So if as I said above Griffiths does want out then trade him for something decent and move on.

Griff will be offered a good contract from the Saints. They have the cap space to overpay him early, he is exactly what they need and they can get him for nothing in the PSD, and can probably guarantee him game time in his preferred position.