Let's get creative with trades

[TheProwler]

Ok, this isn't so much a trade as a poaching idea. It's pretty clear to me that Ross Lyon doesn't have the cattle in the right age group to win a flag (they choked it up and threw it away tonight).... Pav, Sandi, Mundy and co might have a crack at it next year but McPharlin is no younger. They have stars in Fyfe, Walters and plenty of tough hardened footballers but I think Ross Lyon knows this year was their best chance. He never builds for the future (and don't the Saints love him right now for it!) so it was this year, maybe, maybe next year and then they are stuffed. RFC has a reasonably good core list that might be attractive to Ross Lyon. Whether Ross has what it takes to win a premiership is never in more question in my mind than right now, however what is not in question is his ability to turn teams into hardened finals team who can go deep in September... maybe he needs more luck from there.

So, despite me being firmly on the keep DH bandwagon, if we were able to secure Ross Lyon, who would be up for it, whether right now or if we have to wait a season? I think he is a selfish, boring pain in the arse personally.... but he's pretty effective. I would not sack DH for any coach not currently in the AFL and probably not for anyone outside of Lyon, Roos or well that's probably it.... I don't want an untried at this point. We need someone to take our talented list further.... not rebuild it. Hopefully DH does that in 2015 but if we start slowly again......

Lyon is contracted until 2018 (not that means too much) I reckon he goes to Melbourne in 2017 when Roos contract expires. Lyon has only one game plan and had no counter for Ports run last night. His style is strangle the opposition not create, run and score. Don't want that boring style of footy at RFC would rather watch paint dry.

As for those wanting to offload Vickery, IMO he is a required player as ruck backup for Ivan as Hampson has proved he isn't the answer.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Where did I say Port were brave? I said we had to be brave to make the next step.

I said I admire Port. From dead and buried to a Prelim.

You want to know where they were brave? In paying a fitness guy more than some coaches are getting paid. Hasn't that worked a treat.

We went for him, lost out on the best then went for scraps. Oh so typical of our club.

Now Bob, I respect your posts a lot Mate but that underlined bit is crapolla from what has been reported. Had nothing at all to do with money or our lack of dare that had us missing Burgess, it was his wife's insistance that they return to Adelaide that reportedly got him to Port.

FWIW, I agree we need to upgrade fitness at the Club but we tried very hard to get Burgess and was not through lack of effort that we missed him. You think Benny Gale would just give up the chase? I don't, he is as determined as anyone to get us the best of everything.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Ok, this isn't so much a trade as a poaching idea. It's pretty clear to me that Ross Lyon doesn't have the cattle in the right age group to win a flag (they choked it up and threw it away tonight).... Pav, Sandi, Mundy and co might have a crack at it next year but McPharlin is no younger. They have stars in Fyfe, Walters and plenty of tough hardened footballers but I think Ross Lyon knows this year was their best chance. He never builds for the future (and don't the Saints love him right now for it!) so it was this year, maybe, maybe next year and then they are stuffed. RFC has a reasonably good core list that might be attractive to Ross Lyon. Whether Ross has what it takes to win a premiership is never in more question in my mind than right now, however what is not in question is his ability to turn teams into hardened finals team who can go deep in September... maybe he needs more luck from there.

So, despite me being firmly on the keep DH bandwagon, if we were able to secure Ross Lyon, who would be up for it, whether right now or if we have to wait a season? I think he is a selfish, boring pain in the arse personally.... but he's pretty effective. I would not sack DH for any coach not currently in the AFL and probably not for anyone outside of Lyon, Roos or well that's probably it.... I don't want an untried at this point. We need someone to take our talented list further.... not rebuild it. Hopefully DH does that in 2015 but if we start slowly again......

Know what your saying and to a degree i agree,Its fair to say the pressure will be on Dimma next year(as it should).I have no problem infact that if/should make the 8 and again not win at least 1 final that Dimma should be thanked and moved on and yes i think Lyon would be the best out there that might be available but of coarse us being Richmond and none of the planets ever line up for us,Something will happen that will force us to go for another if it goes pear shaped next year.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Agree that a straight swap is overs, a swap of our 2nd with their 1st (30ish for 14) makes it far more even. Pick up Crozier and head into the draft with picks 11 and 14. I'd be happy with that.

Nahhhhh,If Lyon is desperate(and after last night he would be).Crozier and their 1st for Vickery.Only Vickery from our end.We could then use Pick 11 to deal with GWS for Shiel and hell if we want a Vickery replacement throw pick 14 at GWS for either Tomlinson or Jaksch.No way i'd give up more than Vickery with Freo.

 

[partycorolla]

Young enough but not good enough.

We would be a 16/1 shot to win with Lyon any period for the next 8 years IMO.

Go after draft picks makes us a 6/4 shot over a 8 year period or so IMO!

He could do that as well

 

[Calcium Man]

I get that everyone has not enjoyed Lyon's game plan over the season, I actually really enjoyed Freo in last years finals at their manic best, but i think its pretty obvious that he has turned Freo around in the last half of the season to high attacking team that can score quickly and heavily.

I think its also unfair to have a go at Lyon for Saint Kilda's current position and suggest he is doing the same at Freo. Saints had a list manager and if he was stupid enough to let Lyon have his way then its his fault not Ross' not to mention they had a great team, but failed to put that into dollars and from memory ran a pretty tight football department that failed to invest in recruiting and development.

As for Freo Chris Bond is in charge of list management and Freo have not in Lyon's time traded away high picks for players from memory. They might be desperate for a 2nd tall forward this trade period and if we can exploit that then go for it but still think its harsh to say Ross has left the club with no future.

 

[Calcium Man]

Would be looking at players like Jake Neade. Could not get a game at Port while they were white hot early in the season, but he has been a bit of an "X" factor in the last few rounds are really turned it on on the finals. Yarran would be a good fit as well, and cheaper at this point. Brad or Stephen Hill would be a perfect fit but almost impossible to entice to tigerland.

I would be surprised to see Vickery traded unless he requested.

Jeff Garlett.

Has kicked 40 goals in a season on 3 occasions.

 

[theflea]

Agree. This is what I mean. If they get desperate we hold out for Crozier and their first for Vickery. Desperation in not many forwards around and they knowing what they need makes it interesting.

Would you and others accept Crozier and a first for Vickery?

Its interesting isn't it. Im not sure we should give him away as if we can actually work out how to play all 3 talls in the fwd line then its a real weapon. I would be more inclined to find that small fwd( maybe Garlett) who chases and tackles than give up TV.

 

[theflea]

Where did I say Port were brave? I said we had to be brave to make the next step.

I said I admire Port. From dead and buried to a Prelim.

You want to know where they were brave? In paying a fitness guy more than some coaches are getting paid. Hasn't that worked a treat.

We went for him, lost out on the best then went for scraps. Oh so typical of our club.

To be fair he would have been paid more to be ours, but family won out. Cant help that.

 

[Tigerbob]

Now Bob, I respect your posts a lot Mate but that underlined bit is crapolla from what has been reported. Had nothing at all to do with money or our lack of dare that had us missing Burgess, it was his wife's insistance that they return to Adelaide that reportedly got him to Port.

FWIW, I agree we need to upgrade fitness at the Club but we tried very hard to get Burgess and was not through lack of effort that we missed him. You think Benny Gale would just give up the chase? I don't, he is as determined as anyone to get us the best of everything.

Not talking about why we missed Burgess. Talking about what occurred after we missed him.

 

[Tigerbob]

Jeff Garlett.

Has kicked 40 goals in a season on 3 occasions.

Cheaper option is maybe Wanganeen from Hawthorn who may be delisted. Plus another draftee in which there are plenty of this type.

Carlton will be wanting an early pick for Gartlett.

 

[docko911]

Agree. This is what I mean. If they get desperate we hold out for Crozier and their first for Vickery. Desperation in not many forwards around and they knowing what they need makes it interesting.

Would you and others accept Crozier and a first for Vickery?

Depends on what we think Crozier is worth.

Vickery is very unique. He is capable of kicking 40+ goals in a season and playing backup ruck. He is just about to enter the very beginning of a big mans peak which will last until he is 30-32. His potential is even greater especially if a club can bring the best out of him.

At his best he could kick 50+ goals a season and be a very dangerous second ruckman.

At his current form he could kick 40 but his ruckwork is only middle range for a backup.

His value is at least pick 8 IMO.

Which means Crozier's value needs to be at least the difference between pick 14 and pick 8. IMO that difference is pick 20-30 at a minimum which is about Crozier.

However, his value at the end of next season if he kicks 50 and plays well in the ruck goes up to pick 1-3 at a minimum. That is about the same value as two pick 14s or better.

I think if we are trading Vickery to Fremantle it should be something like this:

Vickery + 3rd round for Crozier + 1st round + 2nd round.

That potentially gives Fremantle the piece of the puzzle that helps them win a flag... well that's what they think, and we get 3 players all capable of filling the 10-22 spots in our team.

I doubt they would go for it.

 

[Calcium Man]

Cheaper option is maybe Wanganeen from Hawthorn who may be delisted. Plus another draftee in which there are plenty of this type.

Carlton will be wanting an early pick for Gartlett.

They're pushing him out the door which drops his value instantly. Its been know since midseason he was on the way out.

If they want too much or a bidding war happens then sure walk away but you know you are going to get 30+ goals from Garlett minimum. Wanganeen and draftees don't have those runs on the board so you are hoping against hope you can get 20+ goal season.

You yourself say we have to be bold. Getting Garlett is bold, getting a similar unproven type is hoping they'll be good.

 

[pebblestone]

Cheaper option is maybe Wanganeen from Hawthorn who may be delisted. Plus another draftee in which there are plenty of this type.

Hawthorn has one of the best records in the league for player development. If they can't make it work with Wanganeen, I'd suggest we're no chance.

 

[Tigerbob]

They're pushing him out the door which drops his value instantly. Its been know since midseason he was on the way out.

If they want too much or a bidding war happens then sure walk away but you know you are going to get 30+ goals from Garlett minimum. Wanganeen and draftees don't have those runs on the board so you are hoping against hope you can get 20+ goal season.

You yourself say we have to be bold. Getting Garlett is bold, getting a similar unproven type is hoping they'll be good.

You are right. I want us to be bold. Just not stupid. If we can get Gartlett for market price. It's what we need.

Hawthorn has one of the best records in the league for player development. If they can't make it work with Wanganeen, I'd suggest we're no chance.

You may be right. I've watched him a fair bit at vfl level and he has some talent. A rookie list spot could be a good option as a back up electric small forward.

 

[Calcium Man]

You are right. I want us to be bold. Just not stupid. If we can get Gartlett for market price. It's what we need.

What are carlton asking?

If had been playing this year and kicked another 40 odd goals i think its fair to say mid-late teens pick but with attitude and behaviour problems and not playing despite previous form they can't be hoping for better then a late 2nd rounder at the very best.

 

[Tigerbob]

What are carlton asking?

If had been playing this year and kicked another 40 odd goals i think its fair to say mid-late teens pick but with attitude and behaviour problems and not playing despite previous form they can't be hoping for better then a late 2nd rounder at the very best.

Would you give up our second round pick for him?

 

[THE_GUN]

I wouldnt offer Carlton anymore than a 3rd round draft pick for Garlett but in saying that i believe he will end up at West Coast for their 2nd selection

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

Have heard the only way a trade with Vickery will happen is if it is to a Victorian club. As we know he has signed a contract and could only be traded with his consent. He has told the club he will not consider a move interstate under any circumstance.. so make of that what you will...

 

[Calcium Man]

Would you give up our second round pick for him?

I wouldn't want to but push comes to shove yes. Far better then giving it up for Hampson.

I'd be looking for 3rd and Arnot or Elton. Downgrade 2nd to 3rd before that option. He is coming out of contract too so i think that lessens his value. Probably depends on if other clubs are interested.

 

[sante]

We have some of the most bias supporters on here

 

[Spluff]

We have some of the most bias supporters on here

Bias is a noun, the word you are looking for is biasED.

 

[Frustrated Tiger]

Cheaper option is maybe Wanganeen from Hawthorn who may be delisted. Plus another draftee in which there are plenty of this type.

Carlton will be wanting an early pick for Gartlett.

If Carlton want to get rig of him they'll take what they're given. .....scum.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Not talking about why we missed Burgess. Talking about what occurred after we missed him.

Fair enough Bob. You think we will bite the bullet and upgrade fitness area for next year? All the Executive are talking up a thorough review of the footy department even before we got into our final, surely that will include fitness area?

 

[tigerfan1961]

Would you give up our second round pick for him?

I wouldn't, high risk with off field issues. And giving those pr1cks another second rounder to build their young stocks, reluctant to say the least.