Strategy Let's Talk About Depth, Baby

Remove this Banner Ad

ydraw said:
I gave him votes in the Adelaide game, his best game in 3 years. He's been the same old Suban the rest of the year. Slow, can't get the ball, gives away too many frees, can't kick goals. He's averaged 13 touches a game over his career, which is pretty ordinary for a midfielder.

You're right that Sutty and Duff haven't been great, but they also play positions that aren't nearly as easily replaced as Suban's. We don't have half a dozen running defenders playing well at Peel. But we do have half a dozen utility/mids who could be given a chance to play Suban's role.
Click to expand...
It's hard to reply appropriately when you keep editing your comments after the fact.

I am raising Sutty and Duff because they are the positions up for grabs and where we are underperforming. I agree besides Grey we are very thin in small defender stocks. Suban is playing a role, one which neither Weller nor Blakely are equipped to. He is playing as a big bodied, hard edged inside mid who is accountable at times (On Friday it was to Cotchin at centre bounces I noticed at one point) throwing his body around and allowing Fyfe, Mundy et al to have a less impeded run at clearances, allowing them to take Sandi's taps on the move. He is also utilising his long penetrating kicks for metres gained. He has had a terrible year in front of goals, that is where he is letting us down, I will give you that. However, I don't think you can drop him for that, as he is playing a great role for the team at the minute, an under-appreciated, unheralded role. Its not all about total possies.

Clearly there are two distinct camps among us, and both are equally passionate and coming from the right place in the end. I think we will all agree come next year. I think those of us in the hold fire camp just believe it will jeopardise our top 2 position this year to gift rookies games, and feel that is taking a greater risk than sticking with the incumbents or next AFL experienced cabs of the rank.
 
ydraw said:
Interestingly enough, it was Fyfe who was dropped in order for Lachie Neale to debut. Ross Lyon dropped Fyfe in the 4th game he coached Freo, the week after Fyfe's 50th game. I think it might have been the game where he got knocked out? Not sure.
Click to expand...
Fyfe did his shoulder.
 
ydraw said:
Suban has played 1 good game and 2 acceptable games this year. He's cracked 20 touches twice in 10 games.

I'm not sure why you'd mention D. Pearce in the same breath as Suban. He's been one of our better mids since joining the club, is number 1 in the AFL for inside 50s and finished top 10 in our B+F last year. Suban has done hardly anything in 100 games and has been gifted games for the last 2 seasons.
Click to expand...
DP and Suban are the major scapegoats in our midfield according to others. I agree DP is in career best form. Maybe you're not a D.P hater but there are plenty out there.
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

TheInjuryFactory said:
This.

Those in other threads demanding games be handed to the WAFL kids need to sit back and have a calm look at things. Calls for Sutcliffe and Duffield to be replaced with junior mids are ill-informed, rash calls. If the incumbent fringe midfielders aren't going to be good enough to get us there in the end (Suban, Pearce etc), the kids certainly aren't. These guys know the structure, have put in solid years thus far, in fact both are arguably in career best form. They have had a couple of down games the past fortnight; a tough slog in the wet against a valiant Adelaide (Suban was great imo) and they suffered as a result last night against a rampant Richmond along with every other bloke out there in purple.

Our issues as raised by the OP are our spine, there we have no suitable replacement (besides ruck, both Griff and Hannath aren't any better options up forward than Clarke or Tabs) with our injuries to Apeness, MJ, Dawson and SOS. Alex Pearce has two games under his belt, that is hardly a like for like, no matter how promising he looks for the long term. His inexperience requires constant direction and back up from our senior backmen and our senior players looked hesitant to bring him into the game for fear of exposing him, requiring them to look for the next option placing them under unnecessary extra pressure. Getting games into Blakely, Weller, Grey, Langdon and co aren't going to cover these deficiencies, they will in fact place more pressure on more senior players to support them, covering their defensive lapses, rushed disposals by foot and sloppy handpasses under pressure to senior players in worse positions than them as would be expected from kids getting their first taste of the big leagues.

I think as a fan base we need to realise that if our best 22-26 cant do it, it ain't getting done. Those calling for wholesale changes are effectively calling for a rebuild.
Click to expand...
Sydney and Hawthorn have both played youngsters this year...
 
Oh no, I didn't mean to start a bum fight. :eek: We have similar bum fighting in the changes threads every week, I was just curious about how people would line our players up if they were part of match committee and what their rationale was. It was an exercise in figuring whether we really have the depth to contend this year if we lose players in the second half of the year.

For those proposing a reshuffle of players, would it be possible for you to post your re-jiggled 22? There are so many advocating for Weller, Blakely, and Co. to have a turn in the side, but it would interesting to see how they think these young people can slot into the side while allowing us to manage who we need to manage and still be competitive?

At some point, we will need to give Macca a break, and with Zac and Silvagni and now Johnno out, this is will not a lot more challenging. What should our line up look like in this situation? What about when Pav needs to take a break (or - heaven forbid - get injured)? And so forth.
 
Freo said:
Sydney and Hawthorn have both played youngsters this year...
Click to expand...
Both already have premierships. Both have had injuries and suspensions. Alex Pearce debuted for us under the same circumstances.

We don't have a spot available in our midfield to fill with youth. Mzungu can't get a game, that's a fair indicator.

Rebuild was probably a strong word in hindsight. Transition would be more appropriate.
 
Freo said:
Sydney and Hawthorn have both played youngsters this year...
Click to expand...

So have we. A Pearce for an injured Macca. Heeney for the Swans was an exceptionally talented mid with a physique that was AFL ready. The only one in our crop of young ones who is physically ready is Blakely, and he plays a role we have depth in. Will likely get a run later in the year, but not when we are trying to bank as many wins as we can during a tough start to the year.
 
TheInjuryFactory said:
Both already have premierships. Both have had injuries and suspensions. Alex Pearce debuted for us under the same circumstances.

We don't have a spot available in our midfield to fill with youth. Mzungu can't get a game, that's a fair indicator.

Rebuild was probably a strong word in hindsight. Transition would be more appropriate.
Click to expand...
Don't get the relevance of that one TheInjuryFactory. Why would that impact on the way you pick your team?
 
clogged said:
I don't think anyone has ever faulted Suban's endeavour. Like Stephen Dodd did, he always tries his best. He's just a very below average footballer.
Click to expand...
Not sure about below average, I think he is a role player who has some very good games from time to time. Champion? No, good player? Yes, for sure. If he was a crab, he would not have lasted the last few years on our list.
 
Freo said:
Not sure about below average, I think he is a role player who has some very good games from time to time. Champion? No, good player? Yes, for sure. If he was a crab, he would not have lasted the last few years on our list.
Click to expand...
Ross has played crabs in his time. St Kilda traded for Brett Peake and he played every game under Lyon there.

Either way, there's little new worth going over with Suban's selection.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

I read all the concerned talk of KPD's going down after jhonno's injury has bought the situation to front of mind - but I'm still FAR more concerned if pav goes down... We HAD 1 junior back up with limited footy experience, no natural forward nous and a suspect kicking action even from a set shot ( apeness for those who can't fill in the gaps ) . Now he's also down what do we really have in terms of true forward on our list ? Max Duffy is all we have .... And at 186cm he'll be doing his best impersonation of steve Morris from Richmond on the weekend.
I don't count griff and Hannath as options, may as well put a jumper on gerovich's statue and plonk it in our forward line.
I just hope to Christ we have a play up our sleeve in trading for a semi established KPF at years end, or I may just resort to actual wrist slitting..
P.s using fyfe forward does not count as a valid 2,3,4 game option
 
DMan 11 said:
I read all the concerned talk of KPD's going down after jhonno's injury has bought the situation to front of mind - but I'm still FAR more concerned if pav goes down... We HAD 1 junior back up with limited footy experience, no natural forward nous and a suspect kicking action even from a set shot ( apeness for those who can't fill in the gaps ) . Now he's also down what do we really have in terms of true forward on our list ? Max Duffy is all we have .... And at 186cm he'll be doing his best impersonation of steve Morris from Richmond on the weekend.
I don't count griff and Hannath as options, may as well put a jumper on gerovich's statue and plonk it in our forward line.
I just hope to Christ we have a play up our sleeve in trading for a semi established KPF at years end, or I may just resort to actual wrist slitting..
P.s using fyfe forward does not count as a valid 2,3,4 game option
Click to expand...
Very true, that's why we should rest Pav this week before soreness becomes a proper injury


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
clogged said:
Ross has played crabs in his time. St Kilda traded for Brett Peake and he played every game under Lyon there.

Either way, there's little new worth going over with Suban's selection.
Click to expand...
Ross had SFA to choose from on the Saints list. In fact the bottom few of their 22 were not much chop.
 
Last edited:
DudleyDocker said:
Don't get the relevance of that one TheInjuryFactory. Why would that impact on the way you pick your team?
Click to expand...
I personally don't think what Sydney or Hawthorn do at the selection table with their players has any relevance to ours. I think having won premierships in recent years perhaps they can afford to take more risk with selection. They are likely to still challenge over the next 2-3 years.

Our spine is nearly cooked. Macca hasn't made it through a full season in years and Pav is slowing down. Sandi is also starting to have less impact around the ground, all 3 are crucial to a Fremantle flag this year. I would suggest we will see 1-2 hang up the boots this year, or be very heavily managed throughout 2016 if they do continue. There aren't any players of their calibre ready to step into the breach, so I would expect us to dip over the next year or two. This is our year to win a flag with those legends, our next chance might be a few years off and so we will have time to develop those waiting in the wings as of next year.

I hate the use of terms like premiership windows, rebuilds etc but we are definitely in a different situation to Sydney and Hawthorn in terms of where our veterans play, our lack of capable replacements and failure at attracting KPP free agents to cover these inadequacies. Our old blokes and where they play is our biggest concern, Sydney and Hawthorn have different list profiles.
 
TheInjuryFactory said:
I personally don't think what Sydney or Hawthorn do at the selection table with their players has any relevance to ours. I think having won premierships in recent years perhaps they can afford to take more risk with selection. They are likely to still challenge over the next 2-3 years.

Our spine is nearly cooked. Macca hasn't made it through a full season in years and Pav is slowing down. Sandi is also starting to have less impact around the ground, all 3 are crucial to a Fremantle flag this year. I would suggest we will see 1-2 hang up the boots this year, or be very heavily managed throughout 2016 if they do continue. There aren't any players of their calibre ready to step into the breach, so I would expect us to dip over the next year or two. This is our year to win a flag with those legends, our next chance might be a few years off and so we will have time to develop those waiting in the wings as of next year.

I hate the use of terms like premiership windows, rebuilds etc but we are definitely in a different situation to Sydney and Hawthorn in terms of where our veterans play, our lack of capable replacements and failure at attracting KPP free agents to cover these inadequacies. Our old blokes and where they play is our biggest concern, Sydney and Hawthorn have different list profiles.
Click to expand...
All the more reason to see what the young guys can bring. FFS, any of Pav, Sandi or Macca could suffer a serious injury at any time. More reason to salt a few games into our young blokes. Either we are good enough or we are not. Simple.
 
Freo said:
All the more reason to see what the young guys can bring. FFS, any of Pav, Sandi or Macca could suffer a serious injury at any time. More reason to salt a few games into our young blokes. Either we are good enough or we are not. Simple.
Click to expand...
Which young blokes? FFS If we lose any of those guys we aren't good enough, that's my point. Next year we may not even be good enough with them.

Next year ring in the changes. Give Weller and Blakely 10-12 games minimum to get them up to speed. I will be behind that as much as anybody.

That's why this year is so important and why it is crucial we bank as many wins as possible and lock in a top 2 so we can rest them up to ensure they are there when it really counts. But we still need them throughout the season to bank enough wins to get us there.
 
Freo said:
All the more reason to see what the young guys can bring. FFS, any of Pav, Sandi or Macca could suffer a serious injury at any time. More reason to salt a few games into our young blokes. Either we are good enough or we are not. Simple.
Click to expand...

Young blokes in line for the ones named above:
Pav (KPF) --> Taberner (already playing), Apeness (injured and nowhere near ready), Hannath (ruck/fwd)

Macca (KPD) --> Dawson and SOS (both injured, but will slot in when ready), A Pearce (played this year), Vanadleur (nit even WAFL standard), Hurley (maybe in two years?)

Sandi (Ruck) --> Clarke (already playing), Griff (if he stays, hasn't played AFL for a while), Hannath, and Moller (in 4 years)

Not taking sides here, but TheInjuryFactory 's point is that for the guys we most need to manage there are few ready like-for-like replacements, and they are nowhere near the same quality. Cover must be found by shifting our 22 around and bringing in depth in other positions who ARE ready
 
Last edited:
Pearce has been injured, if he's available I dare say he'll play. Tanner is from all reports going pretty rubbish down at Peel at the minute and is still on the rookie list. Hannath/Griffin may come in for 211 on the weekend as Sandi looked pretty sore on the bench late. I've already said prior that injuries would change the discussion, and if we require replacements in midfield then sure chuck them in for a game or two, no arguments from me in that scenario. Langdon and Grey from all reports are still a way off the level required and would be pretty far down the pecking order, but again I wouldn't be against Grey in particular having a run if injuries/form require a cover for the position he plays.

I don't think you flirt with form. Replace those in poor form with those in good form waiting in the wings. Next year we can experiment all we like because we won't be up to our neck in it. This year we are, so we really shouldn't take punts on a hunch it might work out long term.

Just my opinion. I've given plenty of them in here which wasn't really my intention. I've said my bit. Didn't mean to hijack the thread from what I think was originally intended as a "throw up your experimental 22" thread. Apologies Grape Bear
 
Grape Bear said:
Young blokes in line for the ones named above:
Pav (KPF) --> Taberner (already playing), Apeness (injured and nowhere near ready), Hannath (ruck/fwd)

Macca (KPD) --> Dawson and SOS (both injured, but will slot in when ready), A Pearce (played this year), Vanadleur (nit even WAFL standard), Hurley (maybe in two years?)

Sandi (Ruck) --> Clarke (already playing), Griff (if he stays, hasn't played AFL for a while), Hannath, and Moller (in 4 years)

Not taking sides here, but TheInjuryFactory 's point is that for the guys we most need to manage there are few ready like-for-like replacements, and they are nowhere near the same quality. Cover must be found by shifting our 22 around and bringing in depth in other positions who ARE ready
Click to expand...
How do you know if they are any good or not unless you give them a chance? Anyhow, a few more injuries and that's exactly what will happen. Then we will find out where we're at.
 
TheInjuryFactory said:
Pearce has been injured, if he's available I dare say he'll play. Tanner is from all reports going pretty rubbish down at Peel at the minute and is still on the rookie list. Hannath/Griffin may come in for 211 on the weekend as Sandi looked pretty sore on the bench late. I've already said prior that injuries would change the discussion, and if we require replacements in midfield then sure chuck them in for a game or two, no arguments from me in that scenario. Langdon and Grey from all reports are still a way off the level required and would be pretty far down the pecking order, but again I wouldn't be against Grey in particular having a run if injuries/form require a cover for the position he plays.

I don't think you flirt with form. Replace those in poor form with those in good form waiting in the wings. Next year we can experiment all we like because we won't be up to our neck in it. This year we are, so we really shouldn't take punts on a hunch it might work out long term.

Just my opinion. I've given plenty of them in here which wasn't really my intention. I've said my bit. Didn't mean to hijack the thread from what I think was originally intended as a "throw up your experimental 22" thread. Apologies Grape Bear
Click to expand...
Opinions, everyone has them, that's what makes a forum. Appreciate your input even though I disagree with some of it.
 
How much do you want to shuffle the team structure, as in playing structure, to bring in a player when there are players in our 22 who have nobody capable of being a like for like swap?

Mayne, Sutcliffe are two in this group.

The total package they bring to the team isn't able to be replicated by anyone not currently in the team.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

King Huskii
2023 and onwards/depth and draft strength
2 3
Replies
61
Views
5K
theGav56
T

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top