Level-Headed Discussion Round 6

[PieBeast]

Wouldn't mind this, but admittedly with less money than you originally went for or would be happy to do a sig bet

Nah don't worry about it, just wanted to see how much you believe in minor miracles and got my answer

 

[legendstatus]

And then there are those who come into a thread posting about their own personal likes and dislikes in relation to the length or style of other peoples' posts. Here's a clue; don't read them. I'm fairly sure I've never seen anything in the forum rules that makes it mandatory to read every post. Maybe ask yourself if your opinion on such a thing is of interest to anybody. If you're honest I'm pretty sure you'll find the answer quite instructive.

Sorry this went for too long, only got halfway.

 

[Vicky Park]

Thought I would drop by here to make this long winded post, although I haven't felt very level headed for a while.

It seems to me that two 'Collingwoods' have emerged.

We have 'innovative' Collingwood. That's the club which has poured resources into the media department, significantly enhanced the VFL coverage, publishes more content on the website (including historical content, which I love), upped its social media presence. 'Innovative' Collingwood has brought more women into the club; with high profile appointments of Blackmore's CEO Christine Holgate to the Board, and Meg Hutchins to the football department to help pave the way for our women's team; Sarah Allen is another. The Magpie Nest program, which provides housing for people in need. The new Glasshouse, our own function venue. Gubby Allen into a new role, with a focus on the academies and women's team. This is all good. We can be proud and happy.

Then we have 'struggling' Collingwood. That's the club which has also poured resources into the footy department, recruitment, development, facilities, oxygen rooms, a kicking bio mechanist, player apps, etc, etc, for what is evidently a poor return. This is not good. It makes us sad and angry.

What is at the core of this problem? Personnel in coaching and management? Lack of skills in the training and development area, and disturbingly, this not being recognised and dealt with.

I never realistically expect us to be the best at everything. But I can't stand for us to be mediocre and underperforming. I want the two 'Collingwoods' to come together. Maybe more of the nous and smarts displayed by 'innovative' Collingwood can be brought across to 'struggling' Collingwood?

End of rant.

 

[Greening Magic]

Thought I would drop by here to make this long winded post, although I haven't felt very level headed for a while.

It seems to me that two 'Collingwoods' have emerged.

We have 'innovative' Collingwood. That's the club which has poured resources into the media department, significantly enhanced the VFL coverage, publishes more content on the website (including historical content, which I love), upped its social media presence. 'Innovative' Collingwood has brought more women into the club; with high profile appointments of Blackmore's CEO Christine Holgate to the Board, and Meg Hutchins to the football department to help pave the way for our women's team; Sarah Allen is another. The Magpie Nest program, which provides housing for people in need. The new Glasshouse, our own function venue. Gubby Allen into a new role, with a focus on the academies and women's team. This is all good. We can be proud and happy.

Then we have 'struggling' Collingwood. That's the club which has also poured resources into the footy department, recruitment, development, facilities, oxygen rooms, a kicking bio mechanist, player apps, etc, etc, for what is evidently a poor return. This is not good. It makes us sad and angry.

What is at the core of this problem? Personnel in coaching and management? Lack of skills in the training and development area, and disturbingly, this not being recognised and dealt with.

I never realistically expect us to be the best at everything. But I can't stand for us to be mediocre and underperforming. I want the two 'Collingwoods' to come together. Maybe more of the nous and smarts displayed by 'innovative' Collingwood can be brought across to 'struggling' Collingwood?

End of rant.

Some interesting points Vicky but I'll put this scenario to you and others.
If I said at the start of December last year when we finalised our list that the following would happen by Round 7, where would you have predicted we would be on the ladder and with how many wins?
Schaz does knee.
Ramsey does knee.
Swan breaks leg.
Elliott won't play.
Sidebottom, Varcoe, Adams, Williams, Sinclair, Langdon, Goldsack will all miss multiple games in the first 6 weeks.
Pendles will play injured for the first part of the season.

I would have said "F*&% Me, we're screwed".

Why do so many keep overlooking the personnel that simply isn't available when assessing our performance.
We have no gauge of where the team would have been without the above occurring.
This shite has been going on for 4 years. When will this club have the curse lifted.
I still don't know if Buckley can coach because simply he's never had an uncompromised team on the park.
I don't think we have the most talented list but when half of them continue to be in the stands then we have no hope of improving.

 

[The Dawes]

Some interesting points Vicky but I'll put this scenario to you and others.
If I said at the start of December last year when we finalised our list that the following would happen by Round 7, where would you have predicted we would be on the ladder and with how many wins?
Schaz does knee.
Ramsey does knee.
Swan breaks leg.
Elliott won't play.
Sidebottom, Varcoe, Adams, Williams, Sinclair, Langdon, Goldsack will all miss multiple games in the first 6 weeks.
Pendles will play injured for the first part of the season.

I would have said "F*&% Me, we're screwed".

Why do so many keep overlooking the personnel that simply isn't available when assessing our performance.
We have no gauge of where the team would have been without the above occurring.
This shite has been going on for 4 years. When will this club have the curse lifted.
I still don't know if Buckley can coach because simply he's never had an uncompromised team on the park.
I don't think we have the most talented list but when half of them continue to be in the stands then we have no hope of improving.

I agree with what you are saying in regards to the players we have that are unavailable and how that impacts our ability to win, what it doesn't explain is our lack of competitiveness on several occasions already, over this (6 round old) season.

I believe it's the manner of the defeats rather than the defeats themselves that prompt the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The Sydney game they didn't turn up, they were virtual witches hats against St Kilda and seemed to wave the white flag last week after seemingly being right in the game at 3/4 time. It's this lack of competitiveness that really bothers me, it's so un-Collingwood.

Even the Pies teams of the late 90's had lousy personnel from a talent perspective, but they always tried their guts out and rarely succumbed in the way we have at least three times already this year.

Heaven help us if we get rolled tomorrow.

 

[Robroy22]

I agree with what you are saying in regards to the players we have that are unavailable and how that impacts our ability to win, what it doesn't explain is our lack of competitiveness on several occasions already, over this (6 round old) season.

I believe it's the manner of the defeats rather than the defeats themselves that prompt the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The Sydney game they didn't turn up, they were virtual witches hats against St Kilda and seemed to wave the white flag last week after seemingly being right in the game at 3/4 time. It's this lack of competitiveness that really bothers me, it's so un-Collingwood.

Even the Pies teams of the late 90's had lousy personnel from a talent perspective, but they always tried their guts out and rarely succumbed in the way we have at least three times already this year.

Heaven help us if we get rolled tomorrow.

I thought this after the Sydney game. But did you watch The Giants dismantle Hawthorn last week? The way "current football" is played, wounded or undermanned teams get PUNISHED. It's no longer feasible to guts out a performance against teams that play keepings off and ring a ring a rosey footy. They tire out the kids (or the few senior players you have) and then they just run all over you. Some people call this "attractive football" but to a team that's contested ball based, its a blue print for disaster.
The continuous strain of injuries to key players that has clung to us since 2011 simply hasn't ever allowed Bucks or the players to ever get a chance to show what they can really do.

 

[loki04]

Thought I would drop by here to make this long winded post, although I haven't felt very level headed for a while.

It seems to me that two 'Collingwoods' have emerged.

We have 'innovative' Collingwood. That's the club which has poured resources into the media department, significantly enhanced the VFL coverage, publishes more content on the website (including historical content, which I love), upped its social media presence. 'Innovative' Collingwood has brought more women into the club; with high profile appointments of Blackmore's CEO Christine Holgate to the Board, and Meg Hutchins to the football department to help pave the way for our women's team; Sarah Allen is another. The Magpie Nest program, which provides housing for people in need. The new Glasshouse, our own function venue. Gubby Allen into a new role, with a focus on the academies and women's team. This is all good. We can be proud and happy.

Then we have 'struggling' Collingwood. That's the club which has also poured resources into the footy department, recruitment, development, facilities, oxygen rooms, a kicking bio mechanist, player apps, etc, etc, for what is evidently a poor return. This is not good. It makes us sad and angry.

What is at the core of this problem? Personnel in coaching and management? Lack of skills in the training and development area, and disturbingly, this not being recognised and dealt with.

I never realistically expect us to be the best at everything. But I can't stand for us to be mediocre and underperforming. I want the two 'Collingwoods' to come together. Maybe more of the nous and smarts displayed by 'innovative' Collingwood can be brought across to 'struggling' Collingwood?

End of rant.

We have "poured" only to a limit, refusing to pay the tax saw cutbacks in the footy department something that the Hawks and other wealthy clubs don't do.

 

[Greening Magic]

I thought this after the Sydney game. But did you watch The Giants dismantle Hawthorn last week? The way "current football" is played, wounded or undermanned teams get PUNISHED. It's no longer feasible to guts out a performance against teams that play keepings off and ring a ring a rosey footy. They tire out the kids (or the few senior players you have) and then they just run all over you. Some people call this "attractive football" but to a team that's contested ball based, its a blue print for disaster.
The continuous strain of injuries to key players that has clung to us since 2011 simply hasn't ever allowed Bucks or the players to ever get a chance to show what they can really do.

I agree, and trying to implement a new game plan where your personnel constantly changes is nigh on impossible.
Continuity is vital in establishing consistent performance.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I got more important things to do with my money then winning an argument on the Internet with some random. Nothing to do with me thinking whether I am right or wrong, all to do with the state of my bank account.
If willingness to spend money is a method to measure someone's opinion, that sounds like Donald Trump and that is not meant as a compliment.

It's a beautiful thing.

 

[jathanas]

Sometime I wish Bigfooty put a limit on how long a post can be... Gee there are some long winded dribblers looking for air time on this forum !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

no

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Sometime I wish Bigfooty put a limit on how long a post can be... Gee there are some long winded dribblers looking for air time on this forum !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Twitter perhaps?
Perfect for short winded dribblers

 

[legendstatus]

Twitter perhaps?
Perfect for short winded dribblers

Like you?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Like you?

Thanks for the compliment. Well done