Liam Jones to CHB?

[HK_Bulldog]

Firstly, Jones will be a gun forward for the Bulldogs for a long time.
But I'm thinking that if this year is a Development year, we may as well go that step further and invest in Liam Jones.

Jones has all the attributes. He's a clean, one-grab mark, he's big and quick; he reads the game well, has an excellent work ethic and intensity.
What he doesn't have is natural goal awareness nor a decent set shot.

With Brian Lake battling, Markovic just solid and the others injured or kids, we have a screaming vacancy for a Key Defender and I think for this year only, Jones should be that person.

A year at CHB allows Jones to get 20 touches instead of 10 every match giving him greater repetition in executing under pressure. Allows him to go for his marks and spoils without being double-teamed and crunched every time. Allows him to be in the play more and dictate. A big part of footy is mental and I think a year being a gun defender will fast-track his confidence which will override his weaknesses.

In the meantime, we probably will be worse off up forward. Cordy, Campbell and Panos are the obvious replacements there but not as good as Jones. However, with Jones down back, we get also get time into one or two of those which further prepares us for next year and beyond.

So in summary:
1) Jones goes to CHB shoring up our Key Defensive stocks
2) Jones dominates there, gets more touches and builds confidence
3) Cordy, Campbell, Panos get more opportunities up forward
4) These are development moves so we may end up a position or two lower on the ladder this year. (Which may not be such a bad thing given our draft hand).

Thoughts?

 

[Testekill]

It's actually an interesting suggestion. A CHB with a strong contested mark goes a long way to competing with guys like Cloke and Jones is one of the best in the League when it comes to taking a mark.

 

[Easty]

I'd be willing to give this a crack. What happens when Williams and Morris come back though if he dominates?

 

[dogwatch]

I like it. Even if we try it for six weeks and it flops we can always send him forward again.

 

[Sharkey66]

Not totally against the idea as a teaching tool, but we recruited Talia, Austin, Roberts, Cambell and Redpath all because the have the capacity to play down back. Throw in Panos, Hill, Cordy (and dare i say it, Mulligan) and would think we now have enough options to try without robbing the forward line.
In particular would like to see Hill given a shot at chb rather than rotting in Willi 2s.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

The main downside I see is that Jones has been training as a forward for years now and this will be an interruption to that.

His ultimate goal is to be a forward. Will another year as a forward or one as a back be better for him?

For this year, I think it is back because he will see more action and get more of the ball. For all of Jone's qualities, he's never been a high possession winner. Hopefully, this will help with that. Also, his field kicking is generally good so he just needs to release the mental shackles of being the main forward and kicking at sticks.

Williams is 16 weeks away. Spend a few weeks in the reserves and its season over. So I've virtually written him off as having any sort of influence this season. Morris is coming back from a bad break. Also, despite doing an admirable job, he is physically not a genuine KPD. It would be ideal if Morris and Hargrave were allowed to play consistently on the small slippery forwards. Having Jones back gives us that option.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

Not totally against the idea as a teaching tool, but we recruited Talia, Austin, Roberts, Cambell and Redpath all because the have the capacity to play down back. Throw in Panos, Hill, Cordy (and dare i say it, Mulligan) and would think we now have enough options to try without robbing the forward line.
In particular would like to see Hill given a shot at chb rather than rotting in Willi 2s.

Talia, Roberts and Hill need some time in the reserves to learn before throwing them in. Redpath needs some serious work before he is ready for a game anywhere and Campbell is not abackmen.
Panos is not big enough to be a genuine KPD. He is a third man (either end).

Cordy is an interesting one. IMO, his agility, smarts and awareness is not talent to be wasted in the backline. Happy for Cordy to develop there (like last year) but you don't put that sort of ability in the backline.

 

[Big Wilbur]

So having all pre-season to set up the team we decide to flip it on its head one round in

By all means bring Cordy in to play wherever we need him but let's persevere with our best forward prospect for a few more rounds before we decide to banish him to the backline for "development".

Let's face it, we are not going to come up against many (any) more teams who have the same imposing key forwards as Westcoast. It was like land of the giants down there yesterday.

 

[Mofra]

Absolutely dead against any suggestion of sending him back at this stage.
he runs, plays, and marks like a forward, has been developed as a forward, and his future is as a forward.

He lacks composure in front of goals, and he is not going to gain that sitting in the back 6.

 

[josh the gent]

Firstly, Jones will be a gun forward for the Bulldogs for a long time.
But I'm thinking that if this year is a Development year, we may as well go that step further and invest in Liam Jones.

Jones has all the attributes. He's a clean, one-grab mark, he's big and quick; he reads the game well, has an excellent work ethic and intensity.
What he doesn't have is natural goal awareness nor a decent set shot.

With Brian Lake battling, Markovic just solid and the others injured or kids, we have a screaming vacancy for a Key Defender and I think for this year only, Jones should be that person.

A year at CHB allows Jones to get 20 touches instead of 10 every match giving him greater repetition in executing under pressure. Allows him to go for his marks and spoils without being double-teamed and crunched every time. Allows him to be in the play more and dictate. A big part of footy is mental and I think a year being a gun defender will fast-track his confidence which will override his weaknesses.

In the meantime, we probably will be worse off up forward. Cordy, Campbell and Panos are the obvious replacements there but not as good as Jones. However, with Jones down back, we get also get time into one or two of those which further prepares us for next year and beyond.

So in summary:
1) Jones goes to CHB shoring up our Key Defensive stocks
2) Jones dominates there, gets more touches and builds confidence
3) Cordy, Campbell, Panos get more opportunities up forward
4) These are development moves so we may end up a position or two lower on the ladder this year. (Which may not be such a bad thing given our draft hand).

Thoughts?

I like the thought that has gone into this, in that this year should be all about development.

The big question really is whether Jones playing 2012 at CHB, help him more at being a better CHF, than playing 2012 at CHF?!

Seems to me that this approach works with some players like Chris Grant and Michael Hurley. But for the vast majority of CHFs (for example, Nick Riewoldt, Travis Cloke, Carey, Brereton, etc), they just remain at CHF and that is all.

I would probably keep him at CHF, get the team to grow more and more confidence in him as a player. Thought he showed loads of talent yesterday, maybe was a bit off with the finishing, but I believe that will come.

I actually think we have a gun future forward line already on our books, but they do need time and our patience.

• Panos (0 games) is who we should be giving games to as our FF. No doubt in my mind. He is a pure FF, an awesome kick for goal already, and actually the perfect size once he puts on more muscle. Fevola is 191/100kgs, Panos is 191/87kgs. Get games into him now, and once he has the muscle he will be unstoppable.
• Jarrad Grant (37 games) should be our third forward. Period. He has all the smarts to play forward, and without other overly dominant players around him, he should get enough delivery to prove his talents. Just needs games like Jones and Panos. Really should play off the HFF so we can have a resting ruck and Panos on the FF line. Reminds me of Bob Murphy, and tbh, I can't imagine Murphy playing as a deep forward given his body type. Quite a nimble lead-up target, and if he plays that role, won't be stuck with a much stronger gorilla 1 on 1 when he does run deeper into the forward line as a target...
• Liam Jones (25 games) btw...

Finally, I would be getting Campbell off the rookie list to play as second ruck this week. 80% of the time, I would play him as FF vs Adelaide, Panos as FP, Grant as HFF, and Jones as CHF.

Patience and games to these lads are the key to us having an awesome forward-line in 2014.

 

[boydsno1]

Jones is playing to close to goal. He should be our chf. I would like to see Panos given game time as our full forward and Either Campbell or Cordy a run aswell.

 

[stefoid]

No way!

We have a bunch of players who could have a crack at CHB who didnt play on sunday, so let them have a crack. Hill, Cordy, Talia, Roberts.

Better off developing one of those guys than taking Jones away from the forward line

 

[1961grandfinal]

Jones played in the backline as a junior and has size compared to the others mentioned as possible CHB's. He is a great contested mark, think he was 5th in the AFL in 2011, not bad for a 20 year old. This would allow Panos or Campbell or ??? to play as the tall forward as it appears the mc prefer runners to talls.

 

[TMoney22]

The only thing (besides his goal kicking) that will help Jones to be a better forward is to add another dangerous tall in the Forward line. And that does not mean Roughead. Jones is now getting the best defender each week, he's not ready for that. Ideally he shouldnt have that pressure.

We really have no option. All our other young forwards are miles off being that other target, so we are gonna have to put up with it for a while. But once someone steps up Jones will be presenting further up the ground where we need him. Then he'll be a star.

 

[BWFC]

Jones is now getting the best defender each week, he's not ready for that.

I felt like yesterday he nearly always had 2 defenders on him. As if our lack of any other tall forward meant they had two talls to double team him and he got no help.

I also felt like our lack of structure meant Jones had to come further up the ground to get the ball. Almost a true CHF position. But then he had no tall target to kick to. And we constantly broke down from that point.

I'm happy for Jones to stay at CHF in fact I think he definitely should stay there. I just think we need Panos at FF and maybe even Cordy in the forward line too. Yesterday's forward line felt like a return to pre Barry Hall mid 2000's midget line.

 

[BRG93]

I sat there on sunday and thought the exactly the same thing I wanted to see jones put on kennedy because you can see jones getting frustrated with himself everytime he missed and then put marko into the forward line as a tall target where he originally played at hawthorn/box hill

 

[tonydean]

I think it's a great idea. I also hinted at this after the weekend's game. He might become the next Brian Lake, and with Brian nearly finished, we need a new version. Remember guys, flags are won from having a good defence, not a good forward line! This fact has been proven over many years, we have others that can be developed up forward.

 

[tonydean]

There has also been many great moves by good coaches over the years. Chris Tarrant was an ordinary kick at goal for a few years at Collingwood. The last few years, he has become a great backman. Brian Lake started as a full forward!

 

[stefoid]

We should just bite the bullet and play more talls.

Cordy can play anywhere, so get him in there.

If Cambell keeps clunking marks in the goal square and slotting them, get him in there.

If roberts or talia take control of their positions for Williamstown over a few weeks, get them in there.

Never mind this shifting Lake and Murphy forward and Jones back stuff - thats shuffling the deckchairs. We do have options at Williamstown, and its only going to take a few games for them to work out which ones raise their hands.

 

[Sharkey66]

We should just bite the bullet and play more talls.

Cordy can play anywhere, so get him in there.

If Cambell keeps clunking marks in the goal square and slotting them, get him in there.

If roberts or talia take control of their positions for Williamstown over a few weeks, get them in there.

Never mind this shifting Lake and Murphy forward and Jones back stuff - thats shuffling the deckchairs. We do have options at Williamstown, and its only going to take a few games for them to work out which ones raise their hands.

Exactly. We have recruited players for a reason, start playing them and see if they're up to the job .
Get the structures right and the wins will come.

 

[black pup]

That right this post is a load of rubbish, someone mentioned Hill he struggled to get a touch in Willy seconds on Saturday , you cannot panic after 1 game.

 

[dogwatch]

That right this post is a load of rubbish, someone mentioned Hill he struggled to get a touch in Willy seconds on Saturday , you cannot panic after 1 game.

Well he must have got at least three touches because he kicked three goals (yes that's Tom Hill, not Josh).

 

[Keystone agony]

I think this is a great idea, actually he has all the attributes to be a quality defender. Fast, ahtletic, long reach, long arms.

It also allows you to play Cordy up front.

I agree with a few though, should Talia be playing?

 

[Testekill]

I think this is a great idea, actually he has all the attributes to be a quality defender. Fast, ahtletic, long reach, long arms.

It also allows you to play Cordy up front.

I agree with a few though, should Talia be playing?

Most fans would prefer for Talia to get another year of development under his belt. He has shown a lot of promise so far but throwing him into the deep end during his first year is not something that should be done with a KPD.

That right this post is a load of rubbish, someone mentioned Hill he struggled to get a touch in Willy seconds on Saturday , you cannot panic after 1 game.

As stated, Hill kicked three goals in a 48 point win and would have split the rucking duties.

 

[Tazwegian]

I would worry about his disposal in the back half. He is a great Mark, but his kicking and awareness is a problem. I think he is best suited to the forward line, but you probably won't see the best of him for another couple of years.