Draft Profile - Liam Stocker | Page 16 | BigFooty

Draft Profile Liam Stocker

Discussion in 'Drafts, Trading & Free Agency' started by Lore, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. RobR

    RobR Club Legend

    Carlton
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    Weitering will be All Australian as well, at worst will be a good player. No miss there.
     

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  2. Marcel Proust

    Marcel Proust Senior List

    Richmond
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    Sydney Swans $5.50
    Adelaide Crows $5.75
    GWS Giants $6
    Richmond $7
    Geelong Cats $10
    Melbourne $15
    Port Adelaide $15
    Essendon $17

    Hawthorn $21
    Western Bulldogs $21
    Collingwood $26
    West Coast $29
    St Kilda $34
    Fremantle $51
    Carlton $67
    Brisbane Lions $101
    Not Melbourne $101
    Gold Coast Suns $126


    1 Richmond 72 22 18 4 0 136.15
    2 West Coast 64 22 16 6 0 121.42
    3 Collingwood 60 22 15 7 0 120.42
    4 Hawthorn 60 22 15 7 0 120.10
    5 Melbourne 56 22 14 8 0 131.45
    6 Sydney 56 22 14 8 0 109.50
    7 GWS 54 22 13 8 1 114.27
    8 Geelong 52 22 13 9 0 131.60

    9 North Melbourne 48 22 12 10 0 108.94
    10 Port Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 107.62
    11 Essendon 48 22 12 10 0 105.11
    12 Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 104.08
    13 Western Bulldogs 32 22 8 14 0 77.32
    14 Fremantle 32 22 8 14 0 76.24
    15 Brisbane 20 22 5 17 0 89.07
    16 St Kilda 18 22 4 17 1 75.58
    17 Gold Coast 16 22 4 18 0 59.95
    18 Carlton 8 22 2 20 0 59.29
     
  3. Rich01

    Rich01 Norm Smith Medallist

    Richmond
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    Here’s hoping.

    Picked as the number one player in his draft class, you wouldn’t want to waste that sort of pick on just a good tall intercepting defender. Those sorts of players are the guys you can pick up or trade for a mid first rounder.
     
    HARKER likes this.
  4. La Dispute

    La Dispute La Dispute

    Carlton
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    A stack of big misses in that list!

    Richmond 4th despite winning the Grand Final, Sydney 1st, West Coast missing the finals, Hawthorn missing the finals, Adelaide making the finals, GWS making the Top 4, Port Adelaide making the finals, Collingwood missing the finals, North 17th...

    Actually very reassuring - thank you
     
  5. Malifice

    Malifice Moderator

    Carlton
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    Lol.

    So not one spot was accurately predicted last year, and 3 of the predicted top 8 (nearly half) didn't make the 8 at all.

    You're using this as evidence that bookies predictions are reliable?

    I almost like your other alt accounts better.
     
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  6. LemmingMaster

    LemmingMaster Norm Smith Medallist

    Carlton
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    In saying that they closely predicted the bottom half of the draw, not great for Carlton jumping high.
     
    Marcel Proust likes this.
  7. Arr0w

    Arr0w Brownlow Medallist

    Carlton
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    I doubt anyone has us outside the bottom 6, but stating we will definitely finish bottom 2, is flawed.
     
    BlueRenaissance likes this.
  8. RedFury

    RedFury Club Legend

    Carlton
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    Look, probably a bit harsh to say "lifted" as I'm sure it's your own genuine opinion, but it's just a really common one that Carlton supporters that understand where the club is going and why we've made the decisions we have get a little bit tired of. Now I don't blame neutral fans for having that opinion because you guys will only believe what you see (in games) and what the media feeds you.

    TLDR for the following: A lot of neutral supporters opinions about our recruiting are based on believing poorly conceived media articles and not understanding the true reasons for our horrible 2-win season.

    Long version:

    1) What the footy media says about us

    It's been media types like Matthew Loyd that have written lazy, research-free, surface-level articles about our recruiting.

    The reality is that around 75-80% of our trade currency over the past 4 years have NOT gone into GWS players. They have gone into young talent in the draft, like Weitering, Curnow, Mackay, Petrevski-Seton, Fisher, Williamson, Macreadie, Dow, O'Brien, Cuningham, Walsh and Stocker.

    Add to these guys the four GWS targets that we have genuinely gone after (and got for decent prices) - Setterfield, Kennedy, Marchbank and Plowman.

    These guys are the rebuild. And there's nothing to suggest that any of those players, including the GWS four, aren't going to make it if a couple of them can work through their injury issues. Marchbank and Plowman are already best 22, with Plowman in the leadership group last year.

    The other GWS players were basically salary dumps, or free swings that we hoped would provide some cover and depth. They didn't really work out, but we didn't actually pay anything for them either. People need to stop pretending that GWS-trading has been some core strategy in our rebuild because it absolutely as not. We've taken good-value trades from them when we've believed in will provide young talent to add to the rebuild, or depth to cover for it.

    2) Our on-field performance in 2018

    Well it's difficult to defend this from what an opposition supporter sees, but there are reasons.

    The first thing people need to keep in mind is exactly how far back we were coming from when we decided to rebuild in 2015. The list was a huge mess - and the first thing we needed to do was actually trade out a lot of the older talent we actually did have in order to hit the draft the way we needed to. Think GWS or Suns when they were starting, but wit less concessions, and I'm not even joking here.

    Fast forward 3 years and what you get in 2018 is a list that is the youngest and least experienced that group is ever going to be - yes there is a lot more potential but that takes time to develop. It actually makes perfect sense that the 3rd year of a complete rebuild (where at the end of each of those years you're removing more experienced players and replacing them with younger, raw talent) is going to be the toughest - particularly when you combine that year with a horrible run with injuries and very questionable (to say the least) injury management.

    There is a very good reason why we sacked our previous High Performance guy at the end of the 2018 season and threw the kitchen sink at Andrew Russell to get him over from Hawthorn. There were huge question marks over our player management in 2018 and it's one of the key reasons why our year was so terrible - our team had no continuity at all with players constantly in and out. And yes - a more developed and mature team would have the depth to cover for this, but in the most vulnerable year of our rebuild, we didn't.

    As evidence for this, since starting at the club Russell (according to ITK posters on our board) has already expressed serious surprise at just how underdone for AFL level a lot of our players actually were.

    I think you'll see a significant jump from us over the next 2 seasons as our players from the start of the rebuild move into their fourth and fifth years and we supplement that with other talent to fill holes. I'm confident SOS has chosen well, and certainly don't see any real evidence to the contrary at the moment. Of course, whether they'll turn out to be good players that can get us into the 8, or great players that will get us to a flag is something we won't know for some time yet.

    As for your comment about the facts not being indisputable - well that makes them opinions, not facts :)
     
  9. La Dispute

    La Dispute La Dispute

    Carlton
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    Just wonder which two predicted bottom half teams will make the Grand Final next year?

    Fingers crossed
     
    Marcel Proust likes this.
  10. LemmingMaster

    LemmingMaster Norm Smith Medallist

    Carlton
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    Adelaide and Essendon look the most likely to jump, which does not favour our trade.
     
    Marcel Proust likes this.
  11. jezzajay

    jezzajay Premiership Player

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    LOL!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  12. jezzajay

    jezzajay Premiership Player

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    Love that you take the time to explain the clubs position to some of these posters, but something tells me it’s all in vain..
     
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  13. the nail

    the nail Rookie

    Carlton
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    youre a clu less cat...worry about your own club......so ,marchbank,kenedey,setterfield,pickett,wouldnt get a game with your mob....dont be mad because sos,was twice the fullback scarlett was
     
  14. the nail

    the nail Rookie

    Carlton
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    i
    snt that how rance has played his whole career......geez
     
  15. The Grover

    The Grover Premiership Player

    Carlton
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    Obviously I hope we get wins this season.

    But I don't really give a shit what the draft picks are.

    Stocker + 1 player v 1 player , it will be judged in 3-5 years.

    If we get a Kelly v Salem, Tyson we lose.

    I'm sure there are countless scenarios where 2 v 1 and the 2 players come out in front.
     
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  16. Alphonse_

    Alphonse_ Debutant

    Carlton
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    At the very least SOS (rightly or wrongly) has the gonads to make high risk/high reward trades as recruiting manager, unlike that entrenched conservative old fart Stephen Wells at Geelong, who is wasting Dangerfield's prime years with some putrid/diabolical moves.

    At any rate, Carlton have nothing to lose with Silvagni's approach.
     
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  17. Marcel Proust

    Marcel Proust Senior List

    Richmond
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    Apart from pick 1 / 2 in the 2019 AFL national draft potentially.

    Rance > SOS / scarlett
     
  18. jezzajay

    jezzajay Premiership Player

    Carlton
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    Ignorance is bliss..
     
  19. Rich01

    Rich01 Norm Smith Medallist

    Richmond
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    Yep and Rance was picked up at 19.
    Comparing number one pick Weitering to Rance is laughable. Weitering will be lucky to even be the best intercept defender in his draft class let alone best player. Not what you want from a number one pick.

    Although still expect him to end up better than serviceable.
     
  20. Arr0w

    Arr0w Brownlow Medallist

    Carlton
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    What a pathetic attempt at trolling
     
  21. Arr0w

    Arr0w Brownlow Medallist

    Carlton
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    Another troll

    Still waiting for that wager
     
  22. Rich01

    Rich01 Norm Smith Medallist

    Richmond
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    Weiterings exposed form hasn’t been any better than Doodee as an intercept defender and no better than Aaron Francis as a key defender.

    Hopefully he ends up at Lever quality as an intercept defender which would be valuable to your team.
     
  23. Arr0w

    Arr0w Brownlow Medallist

    Carlton
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    Correct me if I am wrong, is this not a Stocker thread?

    If you want to discuss pick 1 players, perhaps take it somewhere else
     
    RobR likes this.
  24. Rich01

    Rich01 Norm Smith Medallist

    Richmond
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    Sorry man, spose I just need to overlook the Carlton supporters trying to bait me with Tambling talk in this thread eh?

    Back to Stocker, think he is decent at pick 19. Would have been ok with us picking him at 20 if RCD was off the board. But would have also been ok with picking Eli Smith or Hill if RCD was off the board. Will be interesting to see how all these guys develop.
     
  25. juss

    juss Brownlow Medallist

    Richmond
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    It doesn’t take bookies odds to justify a prediction Carlton will be bottom 6 next year. They will improve, but could finish anywhere from 17th to 12th. That’s their floor and ceiling imo.

    Gold Coast are absolute locks for the spoon.
     
    Arr0w likes this.
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